Game Improvement/Better Player Equipment

**Doctorfro** · April 1, 2008

Irons with offset, closed-faced drivers, etc. Then you have all the better-player equipment. Why can't they marry the two "genres" together? Or maybe they do but I just don't see it or know what it is.

**Crafty** · April 1, 2008

In my opinion, Ping has always created the perfect clubs for someone who is between being a "better player" and somebody needing "game improvement" equipment. THeir irons a re playable for the high handicapper, yet versatile for the low or mid handicapper.

**golf_junkie27** · April 1, 2008

Irons with offset, closed-faced drivers, etc. Then you have all the better-player equipment. Why can't they marry the two "genres" together? Or maybe they do but I just don't see it or know what it is.

Doc,

The manufacturers have done this. Look at how many pros and really good players, like yourself, have optimized their equipment. Customized shafts for all clubs, tweaking of lofts and lies on individual irons and the forgiveness provided by so many clubs. For example, I know someone who plays with both the MP32 and MP67. He told me that he is thinking about switching back to the 32s because they offer more forgiveness. Both, obviously, are blades.

**rudygu** · April 1, 2008

Irons with offset, closed-faced drivers, etc. Then you have all the better-player equipment. Why can't they marry the two "genres" together? Or maybe they do but I just don't see it or know what it is.

To me, the "better-player equipment" kinda does this. Most of the irons that fall into this category are cavity backs with little offset and relatively thin soles and toplines. Think Ping I-10, Taylor Made r7 tp, Titleist AP1 (and maybe AP2), Mizuno MP-57, etc. These clubs don't have the huge offset, thick toplines and soles of clubs like the Ping G10, Callaway Big Bertha, and so on, but are definitely not muscle backs either.

**nykfan4life** · April 1, 2008

Irons with offset, closed-faced drivers, etc. Then you have all the better-player equipment. Why can't they marry the two "genres" together? Or maybe they do but I just don't see it or know what it is.

They have. Try out the Cleveland CG-Red or Callaway x-20 tour. IMHO, the CGred is closer to a players club and x20 tour is closer to a GI, but..

**Doctorfro** · April 1, 2008

But look at my equipment: Ping Zing2 Irons (Have to say Improvement clubs), FT-3 driver (1 degree closed face). I do now have a Titleist 3 wood that I inherited from my son. I have worked hard to understand a correct golf swing and I feel like I'm getting it now but I think the clubs could be holding me back from really reaping the benefits. I saw a thread going about how many sets of irons people own and I was shocked. I own ONE set and have done so for 14 years. Do people with all these sets go back and forth as their swing morphs?

Getting off track.... I guess I need to do more research to understand what all the different manufacturers are providing along these lines.

**marpr** · April 1, 2008

Irons with offset, closed-faced drivers, etc. Then you have all the better-player equipment. Why can't they marry the two "genres" together? Or maybe they do but I just don't see it or know what it is.

I think the biggest thing between a "game improvement" club and a "player's" club is the forgiveness, mainly due to cavity size and club face size.

You will find that there are (and will be) more combo-styled irons which will become more of a cavity in the longer irons aswell as becoming slightly (very)offset as you play into the 5-4-3 irons. eg, Titleist 735's and T'Made R7 TP. This is due to the fact that more and more mid handicapper (targeted) irons are becoming quite playable for the low handicapper, ie, you can work the ball more and more with them. It is not uncommon to find even pro's with variations between clubs. eg: Goosen using RAC MB's 9-5 iron and R7 TP's 4-3, Jason Day using RAC LT2's 2-3-4 amd RAC MB 5-6-7-9 as always! it again, boils down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE, Budget, time/practice.

**JeffJ** · April 1, 2008

I am torn on the subject. Besides workability what is the downside to the improvement clubs?

**marpr** · April 1, 2008

I am torn on the subject. Besides workability what is the downside to the improvement clubs?

not much else.

workability is probably the biggest single factor that low handicappers look for. if you really want to be retentive i guess you could say that the lofts are a lot stronger.

**r7 425** · April 1, 2008

You can marry them--just ask RORY sabbatini--he uses the Adams A3 irons with the 3 hybrid

**Caddyshack** · April 2, 2008

not much else.

Does a more workable club mean it is easier to slice/hook for a high handycapper?

**r7 425** · April 2, 2008

Im a low hanicapper..and i honestly dont work the ball unless its absolutely necessary-i honestly try to buy what im going to hit the straightest...i hate balls that curve..

**bwgolfer** · April 2, 2008

Today I think "workability" ia over rated. Ireally think if a club fit's your eye and you feel good over it, play those clubs. There is an element of snobs out there that think unless they are swinging BLADES then they are something less than they are. Last time I looked, golf is about how many not how you got there. Style points are for loosers, go with what makes you comfortable. I personally don't like the look of offset thick top line clubs. So I play what I like looking at and it works for me. Remember "there are no pictures on the score card".....bwgolfer

**marpr** · April 2, 2008

Today I think "workability" ia over rated. Ireally think if a club fit's your eye and you feel good over it, play those clubs. There is an element of snobs out there that think unless they are swinging BLADES then they are something less than they are. Last time I looked, golf is about how many not how you got there. Style points are for loosers, go with what makes you comfortable. I personally don't like the look of offset thick top line clubs. So I play what I like looking at and it works for me. Remember "there are no pictures on the score card".....bwgolfer

i totally agree with you. to a point, eg, my brother is a very good golfer at 6+, but he recently changed from ping i5 to Titleist 695MB on the basis that they felt amazing and they looked good.

he sold them 5 rounds later.

**Doctorfro** · April 2, 2008

hitting the ball relatively straight is huge. Being able to work the ball is secondary for me. I think what I would like in an iron is one that sets up good and square, good balance (not too heavy headed), one that doesn't have a super thick top line but one that doesn't look too skinny either (eye pleasing), and also one that is not shiny (bag rattling makes 'em look bad) and most importantly one that has a decent degree of forgiveness but still has that great feel. That's all! Ha!! Does anyone play an iron like that?

**golf_junkie27** · April 2, 2008

Today I think "workability" ia over rated. Ireally think if a club fit's your eye and you feel good over it, play those clubs. There is an element of snobs out there that think unless they are swinging BLADES then they are something less than they are. Last time I looked, golf is about how many not how you got there. Style points are for loosers, go with what makes you comfortable. I personally don't like the look of offset thick top line clubs. So I play what I like looking at and it works for me. Remember "there are no pictures on the score card".....bwgolfer

Workability is up for definition, no? Most good golfers work the ball to a certain area of the course. I don't know anyone who says, "Well, I teed up, I'm going to hit it straight." Andulations, slope of the green, traps, doglegs, trees, etc., dictate whether you're going left, right, hitting a ball lower, higher. I don't think every golfer

shapes every single shot (draw, fade) but I do think he or she does work the ball to a certain area.

**michaeljames92** · April 2, 2008

i like the idea (haven't tried) of combo irons. i.e. long irons are cavities, mid irons semi cavity and low irons blade-like. has any tried this

**Caddyshack** · April 2, 2008

[QUOTE=Doctorfro;121418]hitting the ball relatively straight is huge. Being able to work the ball is secondary for me. I think what I would like in an iron is one that sets up good and square, good balance (not too heavy headed), one that doesn't have a super thick top line but one that doesn't look too skinny either (eye pleasing), and also one that is not shiny (bag rattling makes 'em look bad) and most importantly one that has a decent degree of forgiveness but still has that great feel. That's all! Ha!! Does anyone play an iron like that?[ /QUOTE]

Yep, Ping i10 its all of the above

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