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Handicap Question Help/Experts?


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I have recently been chosen as our club's Handicap Chairman and need some help. We recently had a newer member join and then win 5 consecutive low net events in our Sunday play which I do not participate in. I just happened into the snack bar area where our results are posted and noticed that this guy shot an 88 gross as a 36 handicap! Upon further review of the previous weeks I saw that he shot 100 twice and 95 the other time. Obviously there is a slight problem. To make matters even more comical, his dad is one of the Sunday tournament chairman. I made the decision to allow him to play but at 75% of his new index for April (28) which will make him a 23 on our course. That is how they do the handicap at SCGA sanctioned tournaments to quell sand baggers. Both he and his dad have complained that this is totally unfair to him. I explained the facts of life to both individuals and they are now excepting of my decision. I told him that we had members who have never won a net event in 10 years of membership and he has done it 5 straight times. Gee, you think there might be a issue. Problem is, the president of our mens club does not like me (thinks I want his job) so he feels that our board should review my decision as he would not want to lose this member over the situation (What about the other 150 guys who are getting hosed?).

What I need are some of the statistics that go along to justify the handicap system. What are the odds of shooting below ones handicap, percentage of golfers who break 100, 90, 80 etc. There is a great little article in May's Golf Digest that touches on it but I want as much info as I can get. The USGA site has the online seminar & quiz but I cannot access it because the SCGA has their own program that is not operational at this time.

Any expert help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

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3 Wood: Sonartac SS03 *14
Hybrid: FT Hybrid *18
Hybrid: Rescue Mid 22*Irons: 5-PW i10, Project X 5.5Wedges 52, 56, 60Putter:i Black #9Ball: Tour ix

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Here's some info for you from the USGA:

http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/h....asp?FAQidx=22

Q. Why is there an “R” after my Handicap Index?

A. A Handicap Index is displayed with an “R” (e.g. 10.4R) because two or more tournament scores have been posted within the past year that are at least three strokes better than the current Handicap Index based on the most recent twenty scores.

Tournament Scores (T-Scores) are kept for a minimum of one calendar year from when they are posted or longer if they are still within a player’s current 20-score history.

At each handicap revision the most recent twenty (20) scores as calculated are weighed against the average of the two best T-Score differentials, and if the difference of both T-Score differentials is at least three strokes lower than the Handicap Index (as calculated from the most recent 20 scores), the player is eligible for a reduction. A reduction (if necessary) is an automatic calculation of the handicap vendor or local computation software provider.

The club Handicap Committee has the authority to increase, decrease, or even remove the “R” if it feels the reduced Handicap Index does not accurately reflect the player’s potential ability.

A Handicap Index intends to reflect potential ability, and this procedure enhances that likelihood. Statistical tables show the probability of shooting two exceptional T-Scores:
http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...eanstable.html .

Please visit Section 10-3 of the USGA Handicap System manual for further reference.


And the ABSOLUTE sandbagger killer: THE ODDS

Odds of Shooting an Exceptional Tournament Score



Handicap Ranges

0-5 6-12 13-21 22-30 GREATER THAN 30
Net Differential odds odds odds odds odds
0 5:1 5:1 6:1 5:1 5:1
-1 10:1 10:1 10:1 8:1 7:1
-2 23:1 22:1 21:1 13:1 10:1
-3 57:1 51:1 43:1 23:1 15:1
-4 151:1 121:1 87:1 40:1 22:1
-5 379:1 276:1 174:1 72:1 35:1
-6 790:1 536:1 323:1 130:1 60:1
-7 2349:1 1200:1 552:1 229:1 101:1
-8 20111:1 4467:1 1138:1 382:1 185:1
-9 48219:1 27877:1 3577:1 695:1 359:1
-10 125000:1 84300:1 37000:1 1650:1 874:1


According to the USGA, the odds of a 36 handicapper shooting 95-96 ONE time in a tournament are 874 to 1. The odds of him doing it 5 times? Too high for me to figure out. In the millions to 1.

Driver- Geek Dot Com This! 12 degree Matrix Ozik Xcon 6 Stiff
Adams Tour Issue 4350 Dual Can Matrix Ozik Xcon 5

Hybrids- Srixon 18 deg
Srixon 21 deg Irons- Tourstage Z101 3-PW w/Nippon NS Pro 950 GH - Stiff Srixon i701 4-PW w/ Nippon NS Pro 950 GH-Stiff MacGregor...

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Handicaps are overrated, I dont see the point of a 2 handicap competing against a 20 handicap and giving him 18 strokes, 1 per hole

If you shoot +2 or +20 thats your score

If it makes you feel better to subtract 20 shots off your score to get to the ever illusive 72, go for it, its almost like cheating or something

You shoot what you shoot, like it or not
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Handicaps are overrated, I dont see the point of a 2 handicap competing against a 20 handicap and giving him 18 strokes, 1 per hole

I like the idea of having accurate handicaps so people can be placed in flights. 0 or better, 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16+, etc.... this allows newer players to be able to play competitive rounds. Lets face it, not everyone is capable of getting to a 1 like you, and many people at a 15 or 5 still want to play competitive rounds... In my hockey league we have three divisions A, B, and C that are based on skill level. There is nothing wrong with people being seperated by skill level... that being said, I don't like the idea of putting everyone together and playing off a handicap... it is much easier for a 25 to shoot 8 strokes lower than it is for a 2 to do the same.

My Clubs: Callaway FT-i Tour LCG 9.5° w/ Matrix Ozik Xcon 6 stiff; Sonartec GS Tour 14° w/ Graphite Design Red Ice 70 stiff; Adams Idea Pro 2h(18°) & 3h(20°) w/ Aldila VS Proto 80 stiff; Adams Idea Pro Forged 4-PW w/ TT Black Gold stiff; Cleveland CG12 DSG RTG 52°-10° & 58°-10°; Odyssey...
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Golf is a hard game to determin divisions and compete againt others, I guess thats why the PGA tour is strictly gross.

Handicaps bring things like sandbagging, and cheating to the forefront. These people are exposed in tournament play for what they really are, shooting better or worse than their said handicap.


the golfer who shoots exactly their handicap as entered into the tournament should win a prize too?
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Handicaps are overrated, I dont see the point of a 2 handicap competing against a 20 handicap and giving him 18 strokes, 1 per hole.

The point is that it allows them to compete against each other. It has nothing at all to do with cheating: you still post the score you shot.

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Any expert help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

You have a thankless and under-appreciated job. On behalf of the members you're helping, thank you.

I'm surprised no one has posted http://popeofslope.com/ yet. This is the site of the guy who developed the slope system. He has a great many resources. Finally, have you discussed this complaint with the people being hosed? He may end up losing more than just the father and son over this sandbagging.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Golf is a hard game to determin divisions and compete againt others, I guess thats why the PGA tour is strictly gross.

Handicaps bring everyone closer to a "common ground" (zero). If it weren't for handicaps tournaments, leagues, etc... would have less people joining/playing. I think the handicapping system is an extremely fair way to increase the amount of interest in the game.

I run a 2 man scramble league that is flighted and handicapped. We run into some problems due to the handicapping but I know of a few people that wouldn't play if it wasn't handicapped. My other league is handicapped with PGA style rules (play the ball down, etc...). There are many in that league that definitely would not play if there were no handicap. I would but thats just because I could give two sh*ts less about winning. Handicaps also set a personal bar. I see many people that are elated when the shoot under their handicap and that will usually get them to play more. It gives goals to the game. Unlike bowling, you don't (and really can't) carry an average in golf. So how would you rate yourself if you didn't have the handicap?
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Slightly off topic...but how can I get a handicap without joining a club. A cursory google search says that I need not be a member of an actual golf club i.e. owns land, has a course, etc...but that I just need to be part of a ten or more person 'club' that is recognized. How do I find that group?
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Dont rate yourself, just play the game, whatever you shoot, thats your score that day, dont label yourself, cornering yourself with a handicap, feeling you need to shoot that to stay within your comfort zone
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Dont rate yourself, just play the game, whatever you shoot, thats your score that day, dont label yourself, cornering yourself with a handicap, feeling you need to shoot that to stay within your comfort zone

Ugh.....you have got to be kidding me.

Ignore Borf, Rusty. Being that you are from Boston, try here. USGA list of links
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So how would you rate yourself if you didn't have the handicap?

Ugh.....you have got to be kidding me.

I wasnt talking to rusty, nice try thought....better luck next time
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The point is that it allows them to compete against each other. It has nothing at all to do with cheating: you still post the score you shot.

Handicaps bring things like sandbagging, and cheating to the forefront. These people are exposed in tournament play for what they really are, shooting better or worse than their said handicap.

Read what I say more carefully, I know you shoot what you shoot and post that score, its your handicap that will be different from said posted score.....and the people that do this are exposed in tournament play and this is what is wrong with the handicap system.

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I wasnt talking to rusty, nice try thought....better luck next time

Ok. That's fine. Use the quote tags then. Rusty could have easily misunderstood that as you posting that as advice for him (as I did). I wasn't trying to bash you....I just thought that was intended for him and I viewed it as heinous.

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Dont rate yourself, just play the game, whatever you shoot, thats your score that day, dont label yourself, cornering yourself with a handicap, feeling you need to shoot that to stay within your comfort zone

How is having a handicap painting yourself in a corner? That is ridiculous.

If you don't like handicaps, avoid them. Suit yourself. Maybe you could even avoid threads on this board concerning handicaps. If you've had bad experiences in tournaments that were handicapped....don't play in them. Just a thought. Actually.....if you're so against handicaps.....why do you have yours in your profile?
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I actually did remove my handicap thanks for the advice!

Getting nervous about shooting good happens to everyone, this is something that stems from the concept of handicaps.

For example: a 15 handicap is playing better than their handicap, with the chance to break 80, and this player starts to get nervous, why ? because they are out of their comfort zone of being 15 over par. Being nervous can destroy a players game on the golf course.
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I actually did remove my handicap thanks for the advice!

Glad I could help.

Getting nervous about shooting good happens to everyone, this is something that stems from the concept of handicaps.

That example is fine...but it's not a catchall. Look at it from a different corner. A player having a handicap has a chance to break 80, and this player starts to get nervous. Why? Because they are about to break 80 and they know that that is a pretty big accomplishment. It's not necessarily due to their handicap. And once they get to that level, they become more determined to break 80 (if they hadn't at that fateful moment). Case in point: Last season I was an over 20 (23 i believe) handicap. Had never broken 40 for 9 nor 85 for 18. Last season I shot three 39s and two 38s as well as a 79 in our league championship match. I don't recall being elated about being so many under my handicap. I was thrilled about breaking 40/80. Am I going to just settle into this nice cozy spot? I'm shooting decent...better than ever before! Nope. I set more goals. Single digit handicap (cuz, to me, that means I am still improving and since golf is not a game of perfection, taht is good) being one of them.
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Right on, it really does come down to not thinking about what you are doing while you are doing it, you cant think about breaking 90, 80 while in action, you just have to worry about hitting the golf ball

nothing is different when you are shooting better, you still have to hit the golf ball, and putt it into the hole
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