Sandbagging in Club Tournaments

**AmenCorner** · April 18, 2008

I'm sure we all have good stories. It is just so common unfortunately. Yesterday I was -1after nine. Shot 44 on the back for a 79. That 8 handicap looks pretty solid now, eh?

edit: Back on Topic. I'm signed up for a Club Championship a week from Tomorrow so I'll report back then.

**n3xt** · April 18, 2008

Short Game,
Thought you would find the item below worth your reading. For more information about Dean Knuth's Tournament Point System go to www.popeofslope.com . Dean is the former handicap man at the USGA and helped devise the current system. There is some great reading there as well as tables identifying the probablility of scoring well below your handicap. The key to note in the article below though is that when implementing the system, more people came out to play because tournaments became more fair for everyone. Good Luck in the next one.

Golf Digest, May, 1999, page 42

Sandbaggers Beware: A new scoring system helps

Dear Golf Digest: I'm sick and tired of the same guys winning our club tournaments. These sandbaggers fatten their handicaps just in time to clean up. How can they be stopped? D.T. Miami

This sounds like a job for "the Pope of Slope." We're talking about Dean Knuth, former handicap guru for the U.S. Golf Association. He's the stats whiz who came up with the USGA Slope Rating System and most recently a new Golf Digest world ranking for tour pros. Though now at the Inter-National Research Institute in San Diego, where he develops high-tech command-and-control software for the U.S. Military, Knuth is still waging war on golf cheats.

His chief weapon: a simple formula called the Knuth Tournament Point System that awards points for top-five finishes in net events (five for first, down to one for fifth). Based on the points won in a two-year period, competitor's USGA Handicap Indexes are reduced for tournament play if they finish high more than their fair share. Knuth's procedure for weeding out handicap cheats has been instituted at a number of clubs and golf organizations, including the Pacific Northwest Golf Association. Entries in net events there have gone up dramatically since the point system reduced the handicaps of perennial winners.

**shortgame85** · April 18, 2008

Every single time a guy shoots better than his handicap, there are guys like you that question it. While sandbagging is about as common as speeding on the interstate, I don't think it's is fair or gentlemanly to question someone's integrity based on 14 holes of golf. Maybe the guy just had a good day. We've already established that you and your partners had bad days. Does that mean the two of you are worse than your handicap?

Hey, just for the record, I wrote that which crossed my mind, as well as that of my partner. I did not say that I unequivacally thought this fellow was sandbagging. If I did, I would report him. And I acknowledged in my post that I realize we all ( including me ) can have an exceptional day. I kept score, I signed the card, had it witnessed and turned it in. If I wished to make an issue, I would most assuredly have done so.

**shortgame85** · April 18, 2008

Let's put a moratorium on the sandbagging talk, or move it to another thread, because I'd like to keep this one on just the results ("How did you faire in 2008 club tournaments?") and not sandbagging discussion.

Quite right. I perhaps erred in my post above by mentioning the fact that my partner and I considered that we were being sandbagged; the error being the fact that I related and made part of the description of the match the fact that my partner and I considered that possibility. I do not wish this thread to become anything other than a convenient method of recording tournament play inthe same way that the thread, "What Did You Shoot Today" does.

**joseywales** · April 18, 2008

This is a problem that really pisses me off. It gets to the point where I will only play in the unhandicapped tourneys where the sandbaggers can't beat you. It's too bad because there are alot of tourneys to play in but you get burned once and it really turns you off to ever play in the handicapped ones ever again.

**wolverine318** · April 18, 2008

I dont remember the last time I played in a even outside of my league that was a handicapped event. Its just not worth my time for a 12 capper to shoot 73-71. Ok I know its possible but not likley. Ive seen a 13 shoot 72 once but hardly ever 2 weeks in a row. Whatever. I try to give guys the benefit of doubt but its hard sometimes.

**shredfit** · April 18, 2008

Here is my take on it:

We all know there are sandbaggers(unfortunately probably always will be...) And it IS a form of cheating...

However, there are some low handicap players at my club(1-4's) that hate to play 8-10's... and consider them the hardest to beat... I've heard it several times. They say that if your around or just below a 10, it's likely that you can play tee to green almost as good as the lower guys... thus they have to play super well(short game?) to make up for the 4-9 given strokes on the hardest holes...(ie a par would tie a birdie ect...)... This is without sandbaggers.

**sonicblue** · April 18, 2008

In my golf league, we play 9 holes once a week, so handicaps are halved. Last year, I was a 5 for most of the year. My partner was a 4, so I would play the higher handicap person of our opponent. Frequently, that person was a 10-12. I could never beat them. They don't play bogey+ golf: instead, they par a handful of holes (and I'll half, if not lose, b/c I'm usu. giving a stroke) double one or two holes (which I better par to win) and explode a hole (I'll win). The net is, holes I play well, I'll half. If I don't, I split, but more often lose.

**DJYoshi** · April 18, 2008

i would think outside of the pros...in 99% of situations where there's $, pride, prestige & praise involved, there's at least 1 sandbagger!
who's a system 36 and shoots in the LOW 80's? that's just gross!

**wolverine318** · April 18, 2008

Here is my take on it:

I would agree with this I think in general its easier for a 10 to shoot a 2 or 3 over round than it is for a 3 to shoot a 3 or 4 under round. Again, in general.

**NM Golf** · April 18, 2008

We instituted a new anti-sandbagging rule for my men's association this year. It was a big success in the first tournament. Here is a link:
http://wsc913x5695.ehost-services102...andipolicy.htm

**AmenCorner** · April 18, 2008

Hey, just for the record, I wrote that which crossed my mind, as well as that of my partner. I did not say that I unequivacally thought this fellow was sandbagging. If I did, I would report him. And I acknowledged in my post that I realize we all ( including me ) can have an exceptional day. I kept score, I signed the card, had it witnessed and turned it in. If I wished to make an issue, I would most assuredly have done so.

I suppose my post may have sounded like I was correcting you, but it wasn't intended to. Sounds like you handled the whole situation nicely. I was just making a general point that we should be conscious of a few facts, not singling you out though. I myself was the subject of such talk last year. My dad and I played in a member-guest at his club. I was a 12 Handi and shot 76 in the practice round. It was a total fluke. That night, people were all over me. The 2nd day of the tourney I shot a 37 in our first match. What people fail to realize is how all the empirical data points to a legit handicap. My low score of the tourney was 37, high score of 43. I probably didn't have another match in the 30's. We've played 9 years together and that was the first year we even won our flight. I have a nice swing and hit a relatively long ball, but I'm inconsistent. People don't care about that though, they care about the 76 and 37. I had not shot in the 70's for at least two years before that. Believe me, I've had my fair share of thoughts and suspicions of sandbaggers.

**SubPar** · April 18, 2008

One study I read concluded that mid - high handicappers have an advantage over low handicappers, as mention here earlier. It is much easier for a -10 player to shoot a 77 than for a -3 player to shoot 70. One interesting stat that turned up was that 59% of players will play to their handicap (or better) in a tournament situation, while the formula should produce an index/hdcp you should shoot to only 25% of the time. This is probably because in tournaments people pay more attention and grind harder.

Having observed players in many tournaments I have concluded that inaccurate handicaps are not the biggest inequity. Better players actually know the rules better than higher handicappers. The rules of golf are not easy to follow and most players haven't the foggiest notion how to rule in many of the most common situations.

Having been a former handicap chairman for a club, I generally know what to do in the routine situations. I have not played in a tournament where I did not witness less than a dozen misapplication of the rules or uncalled violations by other players.

People straddle the line of a short putt, they hit a ball off the course and then drop by the fence as though it were a lateral hazard. They do not replace their ball properly after marking it on the green. They play out of turn. They hit practice putts or chips during the tournament. They move loose objects in a hazard. And on and on.

What does it matter if their handicap is accurate when they save 4 or 5 or 8 strokes with rules violations? If you are pointing out these things on every other hole then you are "an *******" who is ruining their day. It is hopeless.

SubPar

**Dent** · April 18, 2008

I've never heard this term before, what is "Sandbagging?"

***iacas*** · April 18, 2008

I've never heard this term before, what is "Sandbagging?"

Please

just look it up .

**Pyranha** · May 5, 2008

From Golf Digest on how often and by how much people should beat their handicaps:

Q: How often should you beat your handicap?

A: Not often. In fact, you should average about three shots higher than your handicap.

For example, if you have a course handicap of 16, and the Course Rating is 71.2, you should average 90, not 87. The USGA Handicap System is based on 96 percent of the best 10 differentials (corrected for Course and Slope ratings) of your last 20 rounds. More than half of your scores should be within three strokes of three over your handicap (87 to 93 in this example). Most golfers beat their handicap (86 or better in this example) only 20 percent of the time and beat it by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds.

For a person with a course handicap of 16 to break 80 (beat his handicap by eight strokes), the odds are 1,138 to 1. To do it twice, it would take the average golfer more than 700 years. In other words, it ain’t happening.

We had a 'Chicago' scoring event at my course this weekend which was won by a "24" who grossed an 86 (par 73 course). That's 14 strokes below what he should be shooting on average according to Golf Digest. Wish I could somehow manage that good a day sometime!

-C

**SubPar** · May 5, 2008

Q: How often should you beat your handicap?

When I was a club handicap chairman, I went to a required class and I believe they told us a person should is expected to shoot to their handicap 25% of the time. Shooting below it 20% of the time sounds about right.

I usually shoot about 2 - 3 strokes over my handicap, but now and then I will shoot well under it. Last week I played the back nine on a course where I am an -8. I shot 38 with three 3-putts; so that is a net 34. If I had not missed a couple of short par putts I would have been even par, gross. Several times I've shot even for nine holes. Once I shot 26 on a par 30 executive nine where I was a -3 handicap, so that was a net 23! It happens, but in my experience, those days come about 5% of the time. I am very strict about posting all my scores and posting them honestly, but if someone I didn't know played with me last week, they'd have been sure I was a "sandbagger". SubPar

**DavidFehertysBike** · May 5, 2008

Ive played every club tournament ive ever played in as scratch to this point. Kinda makes it hard to sandbag. I should be getting my first one in a couple of weeks though. Hopefully it will be below 10. But ive only shot one round in the 70's all season so far, so I doubt it.

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