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"Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan - Page 17

post #289 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by darkhunter139 View Post
Oh I found it near the very end! Thanks.
I did not get through the end portion intially, I wonder why it was not in the main portion of the book. It is pretty valuable information.
post #290 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Yeah its weird they do not talk about that in the posture section. Thats where I figured it would be.
post #291 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by alansmithdc View Post
If, when you swing, you are not reversing every natural tendency and doing the opposite of what you are inclined to do, ... Actually, if you make a careful study of Five Lessons, he shows you the secret.
Another natural tendency I'm beginning to work on that seems to make a difference, is not to rush the swing in order to hit the ball harder. Achieving a smooth tempo has helped when i can do it. HArdest club for me to get tempo under control -- Driver, followed by woods.


Like Hogan, I fight the hook.

Yet another tendency I have is to come too far inside, too soon with the backswing. To change this, I'm working on elongating my backswing width. But my hook problem is severe enough that it has also required another compensation for now: bringing the (toed out) left foot back an inch to (what seems to me to be) an ever so slightly open stance.

I'm trying to hit a fade right now (again against my natural urge), so I can straighten out my "draw on steroids" hook.

I have the unfortunate draw that mostly begins on the target line and curves far too far left into a hook. Which cost me a lot of shots last round. I've tried to adjust the alignment, but I think, lack of width in the backswing has been the main culprit.

Would love to practice somewhere I can actually see divots — can't on a mat.

Maybe on the course I will mark either side of my ball with a tee or pennies of something so I can see the divot alignment, and the position of the divot, vis-a-vis where the ball was, to check that it's coming after the ball (closer to the flag) than behind the ball. (as long as it doesn't slow the game)

In the meantime, the plantain weeds in the back garden are going to get some abuse, as I swing without a ball.
post #292 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by McGolf-Doggie View Post
Another natural tendency I'm beginning to work on that seems to make a difference, is not to rush the swing in order to hit the ball harder. Achieving a smooth tempo has helped when i can do it. HArdest club for me to get tempo under control -- Driver, followed by woods.


Like Hogan, I fight the hook.

Yet another tendency I have is to come too far inside, too soon with the backswing. To change this, I'm working on elongating my backswing width. But my hook problem is severe enough that it has also required another compensation for now: bringing the (toed out) left foot back an inch to (what seems to me to be) an ever so slightly open stance.

I'm trying to hit a fade right now (again against my natural urge), so I can straighten out my "draw on steroids" hook.

I have the unfortunate draw that mostly begins on the target line and curves far too far left into a hook. Which cost me a lot of shots last round. I've tried to adjust the alignment, but I think, lack of width in the backswing has been the main culprit.

Would love to practice somewhere I can actually see divots — can't on a mat.

Maybe on the course I will mark either side of my ball with a tee or pennies of something so I can see the divot alignment, and the position of the divot, vis-a-vis where the ball was, to check that it's coming after the ball (closer to the flag) than behind the ball. (as long as it doesn't slow the game)

In the meantime, the plantain weeds in the back garden are going to get some abuse, as I swing without a ball.
I would start with your swing plane. If starts on line but then hooks like crazy you are probably coming inside too far or the ball is to far back during impact. I am not the right person to explain this but the info is here on the site. This link might give you a direction to go in.


http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws
post #293 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

I thought the article was pretty complicated. Hogan said it best. "Too try to control the clubface through the ball is folly" All of that is taken care of at address and during the waggle.
post #294 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by alansmithdc View Post
I thought the article was pretty complicated. Hogan said it best. "Too try to control the clubface through the ball is folly" All of that is taken care of at address and during the waggle.
If you're referring to Erik's article (linked above), that's pretty much what he was saying as well. Erik was simply (as simply as possible anyway) explaining the how's and why's of ballflight. He was not promoting manipulating ballflight by controlling the clubface through impact, in fact he was promoting just the opposite. By "utilizing" the old ballflight laws, manipulating the clubface through impact is exactly what you're attempting to do, subconsciously that is. You're subconscious mind is extremely powerful, don't underestimate the influence that it has on all aspects of your golf game.
post #295 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by alansmithdc View Post
I thought the article was pretty complicated. Hogan said it best. "Too try to control the clubface through the ball is folly" All of that is taken care of at address and during the waggle.
The diagram was the just for the explaination of his ball flight. I do not know the behavior so I provided the article for reference.
post #296 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

hogan = legend! thought this was a fantastic book!
post #297 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

hi great forum,
on ben hogans, grips do you have to have the left thumb on the right side of the club shorter thumb..
post #298 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by wikofootball View Post
hi great forum,
on ben hogans, grips do you have to have the left thumb on the right side of the club shorter thumb..
I broke down and finally changed my grip to his, and immediately drives straightened out again. We'll see how long it takes before I am swing all arms like a hulk again.

I believe the left thumb is in the center of the cluband the right thumb can cross over to make the crease of your right hand point at your chin. It is in the book, illustrated.
post #299 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

After reading about this book in this forum I decided to buy it. After only a week of reading and practicing things out of this book, I think I've already improved more than I did when I took 4 lessons with an instructer. This book is awesome. there are a few questions i have though.

1. Did anyody else who changed there grip from an interlocking grip to an overlapping grip( like me) get a bad blister on top of the right pointer finger( joint closeest to fingernail). Am I just gripping the club too hard or is this a common thing when you switch grips?

2. My main question. What do you think about the waggle? I know hogan says it helps your swing a lot by helping you plan it out, but for some reason, I can't really see it helping all that much. Do you think having a waggle is a must, or can you do fine without it. My opinion of the waggle is that it seems a little silly. I will definitely do it though I it can help improve my game

thanks
post #300 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

tfauss:

1. Do you swing left-handed, by any chance? If not, see the second paragraph on page 29.
2. Yes, the waggle helps me define my takeaway club path and also sets up the rhythm of the swing. It's a habit I've had for a long time, and I really don't feel ready to go if I don't do it.
post #301 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

It took me a while to get use to the grip, I even switched to the interlocking grip a few times because this one just did not feel comfortable. I decide to read through the chapter again and kept working on it and now it is feeling pretty good, glad I stuck it out.

This book is helping me a ton, today was by far my best day at the driving range.
post #302 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by tfauss View Post
After reading about this book in this forum I decided to buy it. After only a week of reading and practicing things out of this book, I think I've already improved more than I did when I took 4 lessons with an instructer. This book is awesome. there are a few questions i have though.

1. Did anyody else who changed there grip from an interlocking grip to an overlapping grip( like me) get a bad blister on top of the right pointer finger( joint closeest to fingernail). Am I just gripping the club too hard or is this a common thing when you switch grips?

2. My main question. What do you think about the waggle? I know hogan says it helps your swing a lot by helping you plan it out, but for some reason, I can't really see it helping all that much. Do you think having a waggle is a must, or can you do fine without it. My opinion of the waggle is that it seems a little silly. I will definitely do it though I it can help improve my game

thanks
I got what appears to be a permanent callus on my right ring finger on the outside of the joint (next to pinky) and closest to fingernail when I switched to overlapping.

It got to be such an issue I taped it with padded tape but that eventually didn't help so I switched back to interlocking. I don't have the biggest hands in the world so interlocking helps me keep control in mind. The problem for me with interloacking it takes me awhile to get my grip aligned with both hands where with the overlapping, I would place my left hand on the club in relation to the alignment marks on my grip, then just place my right on top keeping the left thumb in the lifeline of my right.

One thing I was doing wrong was not have at least one joint length of my left thumb past the index finger. It was like I had a pistol grip with each hand. Stopping this helped me with control for some reason, my guess is it allows me to release better?

With regards to waggle, I do on my driver but not irons, I have no reason, just my routine.
post #303 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by Floger View Post
I got what appears to be a permanent callus on my right ring finger on the outside of the joint (next to pinky) and closest to fingernail when I switched to overlapping.

It got to be such an issue I taped it with padded tape but that eventually didn't help so I switched back to interlocking. I don't have the biggest hands in the world so interlocking helps me keep control in mind. The problem for me with interloacking it takes me awhile to get my grip aligned with both hands where with the overlapping, I would place my left hand on the club in relation to the alignment marks on my grip, then just place my right on top keeping the left thumb in the lifeline of my right.

One thing I was doing wrong was not have at least one joint length of my left thumb past the index finger. It was like I had a pistol grip with each hand. Stopping this helped me with control for some reason, my guess is it allows me to release better?

With regards to waggle, I do on my driver but not irons, I have no reason, just my routine.
I kept the interlock myself, only because I did not see the that his grip was overlap. I did well with the interlock. I don't know if I will change.
post #304 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Yes, that's a great resource.

It's also explained in Joe Laurentino's book The Negotiable Golf Swing.

I've worked on my personal conundrum, aware of these laws, with varying degrees of success. If I had more disposable $ I'd be back with an instructor quickly, too. A second pair of eyes is invaluable.

YEsterday, the simple act of keeping my head from looking up too soon and eyes focused on the ball/point of impact a fraction longer, while trying to keep the hips square to impact/target line a little longer seemed to help dramatically.

But won't know for sure without a few more days of demonstrated consistency.
post #305 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

Originally Posted by tfauss View Post
1. Did anyody else who changed there grip from an interlocking grip to an overlapping grip( like me) get a bad blister on top of the right pointer finger( joint closeest to fingernail). Am I just gripping the club too hard or is this a common thing when you switch grips?

2. My main question. What do you think about the waggle? I know hogan says it helps your swing a lot by helping you plan it out, but for some reason, I can't really see it helping all that much. Do you think having a waggle is a must, or can you do fine without it. My opinion of the waggle is that it seems a little silly. I will definitely do it though I it can help improve my game

thanks
I don't know if I every got blister but I know I've got a nice callus there now. It's probably a factor of how hard your gripping the club. Also realize that the right index (pointer) finger and thumb can be held off the club entirely as he recommends practicing in his book. I do that some times just to get the feeling that those fingers don't play a good part in the swing.

On the waggle: It helps me hit the ball each time and eliminated many fat / thin shots. I know the book says not to groove the waggle and I don't think I've done it but every time I do waggle... I hover the club just behind the ball just a hair off the ground while I waggle to more or less set my neck position which remains the same throughout the swing. My head can turn but I want my neck at the same position on the back and forward swing. I still vary the speed and action of my waggle if I want to hit a shot soft or hard, but that little hover and alignment check has done wonders for my shot making.
post #306 of 415

Re: "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" by Ben Hogan

I read an article today that was written by Harry Vardon. The subject was, of course, the Vardon grip. In it, he said that "the grip with the first finger and the thumb of my right hand is exceedingly firm, and the pressure of the little finger on the knuckle of the left hand is very decided [the opposite of Hogan]. In the same way it is the thumb and first finger of the left hand that have most of the gripping work to do [again the opposite of Hogan]."

Perhaps combined with the the way the club was swung in those days this was a healthy prescription. It certainly worked for Vardon.
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