Starting the downswing...

Hi all,

I have had problems for a little while with a slice/pull with my driver. My instructor tells me this is because my arms and the club are getting out in front of me at the beginning of the downswing. I hear many people saying start the downswing with the lower body, but this doesnt seem to fix the problem.

So my question is, should I be pulling around with my lower body, or dropping my arms and then starting pulling with my left hip?

Cheers,
James

Try pulling with your left shoulder , while tilting your spine and head away from your target a little. I use an old tip that says "look under the back of your ball in the downswing. That gives me the tilt I need and focuses my eyes where the leading edge of my clubface needs to go.

Be sure your left arm is fully extended through your release and impact.

Pulling with your left shoulder should make your other body movements automatic, including making your left hip lead.

Try to make your clubhead path a little inside-out through impact.

This seems to be kinda a touchy subject but i'll offer up my advice.

Everyone can agree that your body needs to pull your arms..which in turn pulls the club down and through impact. In order to achieve this, you need a proper coil of your body to whatever extent you can turn. I try to get my left shoulder under my chin. Your instructor likely advocates a similar idea.

Your arms are coming over the top. So if your face is square, you'll end up pulling it...and if its slightly open...you'll end up slicing it over.

I have/ had the same issue.

The caveat of my advice is that you can make a proper backswing/shoulder turn. Your instructor probably taught you this so im not gonna get into it unless you'd like me to in this thread.

My first swing thought is "hands first". This doesnt literally mean your hands are the first to move. It just means that the most important thought that you should have before you swing down is to get your hands to the inside.

Take a pen in your golf grip(or if you randomly have a wooden dowel or something like that lying around..that works too), take that pen and hold it like a golf club....take your regular backswing (full shoulder turn!) and stop at the top.

Your goal here is to get your path to the inside. Let your right hand go of the pen (still at the top of the fully coiled backswing), uncoil your shoulders to start the move, and simultaneously direct your left arm to stab the inside half of the golf ball. You are doing this in slow motion basically, so when i say uncoil, you arent trying to whip them around, you are just naturally uncoiling them in slow motion to start the move towards the ball. You wont be coming to any sort of finish, you only need to swing your left arm until your hand gets a little past your left thigh. Theres only one path that you can take to do this properly, and thats to the inside. That is the feeling you are trying to ingrain. Stabbing the inside half of the ball with the butt of your club. You know you are coming over the top if it looks like you would stab the outside of the ball.

Another excersize you can try is bring a golf club to the top of your backswing ( you can use a pen also...does the same effect, but you will be keeping both hands on the club/pen so using a club would be more practical unless you are indoors or at work or something). Anyways, take your club up to the top of your backswing. Your goal again is to come in from the inside, or 'drop the club in the slot'. As you come down, your goal is to keep your left elbow and upper arm essentially in contact with your left pectoral. You want to do this basically in slow motion. Again, you dont need to go to a finish...and you really arent uncoiling quickly. You are basically doing this in slow motion to understand what the feeling is. If you are doing this improperly, your left bicep will disconnect from your left pectoral. They dont necessary have to be actually entirely in contact, it kinda depends on your bulk and body type, but in general, they should almost be in contact. They should only really disconnect once your arm has cleared past your chest.

I kinda have trouble explaining the second tip without visualing showing someone...so i'll explain what i personally feel. To be honest, you might feel something different depending on what your body is like...but hopefully you'll get the idea. When i get to the top of my backswing, my left arm is straight as possible but not locked at the elbow. I also have my left bicep almost resting on my left pectoral with my arms as far away from my body as i can get them. That is what the straight arm achieves...and locking out only creates tension. You are better off allowing for a little bend if you get too tense when you are straight. Anways, as i come down to my downsing..my shoulders uncoil...my left bicep is still is just losing contact with my chest...you can probably shine some light through...but the gap is very small. It remains like that until my arms have cleared past my hips and past my chest. If i dont feel that "closeness" of my biceps to my chest, then i know im coming in over the top. Usually if thats the case, i pull the ball to the left.

Again, these tips only really apply with a good shoulder turn. For me personally, if you make a line coming out of my belly button parallel to the ground at address, then another at the top of my turn, theres about an 80* turn. My left shoulder is a little to the left of my chin. And my left side is straight. I feel that the straight left side is very important. You may able to turn 80 or 85 degrees but its useless if you are dipping your left shoulder down. So stand at address...and imagine a line out your belly button. Make a turn and look where your belly button is pointing at the top of your swing. Also check if your left side is straight (no dipping down of the left shoulder). The angle of your turn really doesnt matter in the scheme of things. Its just based on your flexibility. What's important is that you go as far as you can while keeping your left side straight. That point is what your personal full coil feels like.

So to clarify the answer to your question....the uncoiling of the shoulders in unison with the turning of your hips pulls your arms down and through the ball. Your arms shouldnt actively be moving first. The uncoiling of your shoulders is the first move.

i've been taught to imagine a wall against the rear of your leading shoulder on the backswing, which would prevent you from turning forward on the downswing. This has helped me start with my arms a little more and come down on the correct plane.

i also work on focusing on my arms at the top of the backswing. i imagine me swinging into like a bouncy ball at the top. if i were to back swing into a large bouncy ball, it would make my arms bounce the other way into my downswing. i try to focus on feeling that "bounce" back at the top of the backswing. this should get the arms dropping down on plane.

I used to have BIG problems with my slice, talked to my ex gfs dad who played golf ALL the time, and he took me out and showed me exactly what i did wrong, he told me take my backswing and he told me 1, i wasnt bending my knee in apparently my legs were staying straight and 2 when i got to the top, almost literally drop my right elbow straightdown and when the club reached around waist height to whip it thru, cause i was starting my swing at the top coming inside to much on the ball, when i tried that and did the knee thing it felt weird but the ball went straight not far but straight, and then i just workked on it now i got distance and it goes straight

The lower body is where it should start for sure.

Without a proper sequence you can rob yourself of the distance and accuracy that you can achieve without gimmicky moves that require a deal of athleticism to get the right result.

You should turn the hips while smoothly shifting, not throwing, your weight to the left foot (for a righty). What I do with the arms is feel my right hand trailing my left, though do what the instructor says if it feels okay. This gives me the best compression for the swing.

Some things to consider since the slice is the problem would be the plane of your swing, whether or not the club is square at the top (i.e. wrist bend), and posture. Swing aids like the Medicus are great for stuff like this and can save you money on instruction.

Just some helpful advice, none of which has to be taken literally.

YGP

1. Left knee should move towards the target
2. Hips should start to rotate (not slide towards the target)
3. Left shoulder should start to rotate
4. Hands drop
5. Club drops.

There's usually an argument about this, although this is how the swing is supposed to work, but at the very least top quality instructors will agree that the downswing starts with the lower body first. Because if you don't start it with the lower body, you'll then "cast" the club.




3JACK

When this happens to me I stop and practice the 'skipping a stone across the lake' movement with my right arm. Anybody can do this naturally, on plane. But put a golf club in our hands...