Quick question about slope and course rating

**TarDawg** · July 18, 2008

So I played a course that had 3 nines. each with their own slope rating. How do I figure out what my total slope and rating were for the 2 nines I did play that made up my 18 hole round?

front nine 140/36.8
Back nine 133/37

Or do I just post my score as two individual 9hole rounds for handicapping purposes?

**TarDawg** · July 18, 2008

ha nevermind. turns out GHIN does it for you automatically.

**TCCcaddie** · July 18, 2008

I think for the course rating you just add the ratings of the two nine hole courses, but dont hold me too it. Did you check the scorecard because usually they have the ratings and slopes for the course combonations on the card. Also what course was it because you can also check the course website.

***iacas*** · July 18, 2008

front nine 140/36.8

Rating: 73.8

Slope: 136 Only question I have is this: why would a 32 handicap play a 73.8/136 course?

**TarDawg** · July 19, 2008

Rating: 73.8

I have no idea what my real handicap is. That was a stab. However playing from the blues I did shoot a 96 on the day. No mulligans. I just started keeping track of my scores for handicapping purposes. Put 4 rounds in so far. This round in particular was round number 1.

Also I fully believe in putting a challenge out there for you. I have a bad tendency to play up or down to my competition. So if I'm playing a relatively easy course I tend to shoot worse than if I'm playing a much more challenging course. Besides. I move along quite quickly when I golf. I'd almost call myself a speed golfer in that i've already made up my mind on the next shot before i get to my ball. Typically hit the ball much better without any sort of practice swing. And if i can't find my ball with a quick glance I'll drop one or if I know there is no way it's findable from the tee i'll tee it up again and be hitting 3. So my question to you is this... Why wouldn't a 32 handicap play a course like i did?

**TheGasman** · July 19, 2008

Rating: 73.8

I dont know about you, but in business I have been and am continually invited to play nice and challenging courses. I would never turn it down because im a high handicapper. Plus, if it wasnt for the high handicaps playing at these courses, they probably wouldnt stay open.

**TarDawg** · July 19, 2008

iascas... inquiring minds want to know!

***iacas*** · July 19, 2008

So my question to you is this... Why wouldn't a 32 handicap play a course like i did?

Because if you were a 32 index

and you played to it , you'd shoot 112 or so. That's not fun, and it's likely slow for the people around you. Courses with slope that high and a high handicapper lead to lost or temporarily missing balls frequently, three putts, a few extra bunker shots (from the same bunker), etc. The course may be beautiful and all, but it's just as beautiful from a more appropriate set of tees and you'll enjoy your day more. Now, if you're not a 32 and you're, say, a 12 or whatever, that changes things, but in general I recommend people play the "appropriate" tees: for their own enjoyment and development as well as pace of play reasons. It's a generalization, but one that holds up fairly well.

**TarDawg** · July 19, 2008

it is a very bad generalization. Maybe i'm the exception to the rule but as I said. I'm a VERY fast player and I will NEVER be the one to hold up any group.

And I'm sure it's just because it's the internet and hard to tell the tone of your statement through Arial Font but I will say this.

Your arguement makes you sound like a golf snob/elitist. Like only those good enough to have a 15 index or lower should be alowed on challenging courses. As if all handicappers 20 and higher should have to wear a sign on our backs so those that are 10's and lower have the right to hit into us if we happen to 3 or even 4 putt on a green.

Again. I'm sure your not like that and I can understand the cruxt of your arguement if in fact ALL high handicappers were slow. But I've played behind MORE than my fair share of SLOW low handicap golfers myself. Pace of play is not a problem solely unto us high 'uns... Heck even the tour is struggling with it.

I'll also add this. I have more fun playing a course with that sort of rating and shooting a 115 (however I shot a 96) than I do sitting behind my desk working for the man.

**Shindig** · July 19, 2008

Your arguement makes you sound like a golf snob/elitist. Like only those good enough to have a 15 index or lower should be alowed on challenging courses. As if all handicappers 20 and higher should have to wear a sign on our backs so those that are 10's and lower have the right to hit into us if we happen to 3 or even 4 putt on a green.

Actually, most courses have multiple sets of tees for exactly this reason. If the scorecard doesn't explicitly list a handicap recommendation, the clubhouse or starter usually will. I've played courses with multiple sets of tees, and if I'm not sure by CR/SR, I ask.

You're allowed plenty on challenging courses. But pick the right challenge for you. You wouldn't play Torrey Pines from the U.S. Open tees, even in normal daily setup, would you?

Again. I'm sure your not like that and I can understand the cruxt of your arguement if in fact ALL high handicappers were slow. But I've played behind MORE than my fair share of SLOW low handicap golfers myself. Pace of play is not a problem solely unto us high 'uns... Heck even the tour is struggling with it.

It's not that high handicappers are slow - and it certainly isn't the case that low handicappers are fast. You point out the tour's pace of play, for example. But something that lots of people of all ages seem to miss is that a generalization

doesn't mean all. It means "in general."

I'll also add this. I have more fun playing a course with that sort of rating and shooting a 115 (however I shot a 96) than I do sitting behind my desk working for the man.

And were those the forward-most men's tees as that course? Why not play from the white tees, save yourself some aggravation, and still be able to go out and enjoy the course? I spend a fraction of my desk time thinking about playing golf (and doing some visualization exercises for my mental game).

Figure out your (real) handicap index, then figure out which sets of tees produce a score you'd like if you play to your index, and try those. For example, I won't play a set of tees that produce an expected score above 95 for me if I play to my index. I also look at yardage (I can't suggest this or suggest against this for you since I don't know your distances). Then you get to enjoy the course instead of sitting at your desk.

**TarDawg** · July 19, 2008

Actually, most courses have multiple sets of tees for exactly this reason. If the scorecard doesn't explicitly list a handicap recommendation, the clubhouse or starter usually will. I've played courses with multiple sets of tees, and if I'm not sure by CR/SR, I ask.

I understand the reason behind multiple sets of tee's. You won't find me playing from anything further back than the blue's unless it's a REALLY short course

You're allowed plenty on challenging courses. But pick the right challenge for you. You wouldn't play Torrey Pines from the U.S. Open tees, even in normal daily setup, would you?

No. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't play Torrey Pines. Which is what I got out of Iacas, that if i'm a high handicapper i should stay far far away.

And were those the forward-most men's tees as that course? Why not play from the white tees, save yourself some aggravation, and still be able to go out and enjoy the course? I spend a fraction of my desk time thinking about playing golf (and doing some visualization exercises for my mental game).

No that 96 was from the blue tee's.

Figure out your (real) handicap index, then figure out which sets of tees produce a score you'd like if you play to your index, and try those. For example, I won't play a set of tees that produce an expected score above 95 for me if I play to my index. I also look at yardage (I can't suggest this or suggest against this for you since I don't know your distances). Then you get to enjoy the course instead of sitting at your desk.

As noted earlier I have just started keeping my scores on GHIN. I have 4 rounds in the books right now. If i read correctly I should have my index after the 5th round.

Also I read some where that you should take your average 5iron distance and multiply it by some number and that gives you what course yardage you should be looking to play. For me it came out to about 6400 yards. Which for most courses I play is from the blue tee's. Don't get me wrong I agree with the premises for both your arguements. I just think Iacas was being a bit to general for me. And again I'm sure he wasn't trying to come off that way. Or i even took it wrong. It is the internet though so that happens from time to time.

**Shindig** · July 19, 2008

Don't get me wrong I agree with the premises for both your arguements. I just think Iacas was being a bit to general for me. And again I'm sure he wasn't trying to come off that way. Or i even took it wrong. It is the internet though so that happens from time to time.

I think you and I read him differently, then. My reading of his post - and maybe I saw it differently because it wasn't a response to me - was that he was trying to suggest a set of tees that you'd enjoy more.

**TarDawg** · July 19, 2008

ahh. no he was asking why I a 32 handicapper was playing a course with that slope/ranking.

***iacas*** · July 19, 2008

ahh. no he was asking why I a 32 handicapper was playing a course with that slope/ranking.

Yeah, but it was a bit more than that. I was also suggesting that if you're a 32 you might want to play a different set of tees.

General rule I like to see people follow is this: if you can't play bogey golf from whatever set of tees you choose, move up. And if you're just starting the game of golf, it behooves YOU and helps YOUR game more to play appropriate courses/tees. The "you" in the above paragraph is the general "you." Not you specifically, TarDawg.

it is a very bad generalization.

Except that it's not, no. It's a generalization. As Shindig said, that means "in general."

Maybe i'm the exception to the rule but as I said. I'm a VERY fast player and I will NEVER be the one to hold up any group.

Slow play was only one of the reasons why a 32 handicapper (which it doesn't seem as though you are) might want to play shorter tees. I mentioned others. One of the other reasons is to improve more quickly and enjoy the game more.

Like only those good enough to have a 15 index or lower should be alowed on challenging courses.

There are courses that actually have requirements like that, and many of them exist back in the land where the game was invented.

And I'm sorry, but yeah, there's no way a 32 handicapper should be playing certain courses from certain tees. You yourself admitted you wouldn't play Torrey Pines from the U.S. Open tees, so clearly you agree with the concept, just not necessarily with where the line falls.

As if all handicappers 20 and higher should have to wear a sign on our backs so those that are 10's and lower have the right to hit into us if we happen to 3 or even 4 putt on a green.

Yeah, that's what I said... uhm, not. C'mon, dude. Let's not resort to silly hyperbole and drastic mis-understanding.

If you shot 96, you're about a 17.7 index on that course. That's quite a bit away from a 32 and changes much of what I said (which was geared towards a 32 index).

**bIGwIRE** · July 19, 2008

I have no idea what my real handicap is. That was a stab.

If your not a 32 handicap then you have misrepresented yourself. In my experiance taking a "stab" or a guess usually doesn't produce desired results. If your desired result is to get help from better players, then you have to give correct info.

Nice round btw.

**TarDawg** · July 20, 2008

If your not a 32 handicap then you have misrepresented yourself. In my experiance taking a "stab" or a guess usually doesn't produce desired results. If your desired result is to get help from better players, then you have to give correct info.

Thanks. And it was more I didn't want to give my self more credit than I thought I deserved. I assumed I was a 32. And when i started on this board I was probably pretty close to it. But I have been working hard so I can't wait to find out what my real index is.

**bIGwIRE** · July 20, 2008

Thanks. And it was more I didn't want to give my self more credit than I thought I deserved. I assumed I was a 32. And when i started on this board I was probably pretty close to it. But I have been working hard so I can't wait to find out what my real index is.

You have the option of leaving your handicap rating blank until you find out. It sounds like its alot better than 32

Keep up the hard work. Post it when you find out.

**JessN16** · July 20, 2008

Playing from a different set of tees doesn't solve the problem in a lot of cases. Going off the whites at RTJ Capitol Hill's Judge course, which is near my house, may cut down your forced carry off the tees on three or four holes, but there is still water abutting 12 holes and there are still several greens with forced carry over sand.

It's been my experience (some of it personal) that there are two ways someone plays to a high handicap: Either they can't hit for distance, at which point playing from forward tees would be a great help, or they lack consistency. In the latter case, if 60 percent of their drives are going to fly 220 into the fairway and 40 percent are going to go off screaming left or right, changing where they tee from makes very little difference. I'm in that second group.

My handicap was 15 when I was at my peak about seven years ago. But back around 1993 or 1994, when I was still in the mid-20s, I'd shoot around 115 on really tough courses and I continued to shoot around 115 even afterwards when I was peaking. The reason wasn't tee-to-green distance, it was the bunkers, the water -- stuff you find when you go off-line. A couple of those courses I played from the whites and then from a different set of tees and shot basically the same scores.

It would also help if courses rated themselves accurately. Case in point: RTJ Capitol Hill Judge, from the whites, is 69.3/129. Vanity Fair Golf Club is 70/127. VFGC is not the world's easiest course but I promise you if you play each course 10 times, anyone between 10-20 HDCP will shoot 20 shots lower, aggregate, at VFGC. AT LEAST.

As for requirements to play certain courses, if it's a public course, player performance should be irrelevant as to who can play it and who can't. As long as people don't take 5 hours a round -- and I've seen even 5-handicappers pull that mess -- I don't care what they're shooting in front of me. Even at my worst, the group of guys I played with would typically run up on people because even though we stunk, we stunk quickly.

Jess

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Quick question about slope and course rating

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