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Relative Importance of the Long Game, Short Game, etc. (Mark Broadie, Strokes Gained, etc.) - Page 5

post #73 of 511

Re: Long game more important than short?

Originally Posted by YogiTKE View Post
Pro playing short. I could hit a short or errant drive and the pro has the ability to hit long irons and work the ball left/right to save pars and make birdies from the rough. Their putting/chipping is so much more precise than any novice.

That wasn't the hypothetical. Long irons, and IMO long wedges, are part of the long game. Technically speaking if the pro is playing your long game you'll only be putting if he makes it on in regulation. For the sake of this hypothetical let's say that the short game begins at under 100yds. Anything over 100yds is to be considered long...
post #74 of 511

Re: Long game more important than short?

Originally Posted by Chief Broom View Post
That wasn't the hypothetical. Long irons, and IMO long wedges, are part of the long game. Technically speaking if the pro is playing your long game you'll only be putting if he makes it on in regulation. For the sake of this hypothetical let's say that the short game begins at under 100yds. Anything over 100yds is to be considered long...
Then I'll still take the pro playing my short game. Very consistent from 100 yards in. I'd rather have them play from 140 in.
post #75 of 511

drive for show putt for dough or not

Curious what others think about the old saying? I don't totally buy in to it. My best rounds have always come when I have a good day driving the ball.

post #76 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

Curious what others think about the old saying? I don't totally buy in to it. My best rounds have always come when I have a good day driving the ball.

 

@wils5150 I merged your post here because it's relevant to this topic. We have a few others - and we've discussed the relative importance in this thread, too: 65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time .

post #77 of 511

I don't know if it is wholly untrue - but I definitely think it is overstated.  In my experience - which might be very different from that of a scratch or pro - bad drives can get you into trouble just as fast as missed putts.

post #78 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post

I disagree with the notion that the long game is more important than the short game. Drive for show, putt for dough.

 

As someone who struggles with putting ... it only takes two missed 3-5 ft realistically makeable putts to be the equivalent of hitting one drive OB.     Even the average weekend golfer who is actually keeping score is conscious of the fact that he can't afford to put many balls out of bounds & keeps that to a manageable degree.   The bonafied hackers who are spraying the ball OB every other drive are not those who are really trying to keep score anyways.   To everyone that keeps a scorecard, short game is dramatically more important than the long game - over the course of a round, it's just exponentially easier to lose more shots within 50 yds or so of the green and in - this is where "feel" comes in to play, which is the bane of most golfers existence.     How anyone can dispute that is beyond me.     Again, this is assuming the guy is at least trying to keep score & not hitting drives all OB.

post #79 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

I don't know if it is wholly untrue - but I definitely think it is overstated.  In my experience - which might be very different from that of a scratch or pro - bad drives can get you into trouble just as fast as missed putts.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2009/06/moneygolf.single.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/moneygolf/2010/08/bad_lies.html (there are a series of these)

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/molinari-leading-charge-for-statistical-analysis-long-trumps-short-game/

 

Executive summary: The long game is quite important. More important than the short game.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

As someone who struggles with putting ... it only takes two missed 3-5 ft makeable putts to be the equivalent of hitting one drive OB.     Even the average weekend golfer who is actually keeping score is conscious of the fact that he can't afford to put many balls out of bounds & keeps that to a manageable degree.   The bonafied hackers who are spraying the ball OB every other drive are not those who are really trying to keep score anyways.   To everyone that keeps a scorecard, short game is dramatically more important than the long game - over the course of a round, it's just exponentially easier to lose more shots within 50 yds or so of the green - this is where "feel" comes in to play, which is the bane of most golfers existence.     How anyone can dispute that is beyond me.     Again, this is assuming the guy is at least trying to keep score & not hitting drives all OB.

 

Nope. Huge misconception.

post #80 of 511

Maybe the course you play factors in too. My course has woods on both sides of the fairway on almost every hole. If I have a bad driving day I will struggle to break 85.  Also I am average putter at best. My own experience tells me if I hit fairways I will score well even with a ok putting day.

post #81 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

 

Executive summary: The long game is quite important. More important than the short game.

 

.

 

I'm not going to argue with a golf pro, but what you said seems to apply more in the case of the elite players (low hcp'ers) - not for the average golfer (excluding the bangers who really aren't trying to keep a score card).     I guess I'm basing my opinion on myself - pretty much your basic average serious golfer - short game (for me) costs me more strokes than the long game without question ... there's just no disputing that - maybe I'm not in the hcp range that this model works for ?    I simply can't fathom this entire concept of the long game being more important than the short game  unless one is an elite player, because they have the short game down, and have to really go after it off the tee as they're usually competing from the back tee's)  ...

post #82 of 511

 

Even as a relative novice to the game, I couldn't help but think this is true.

I thought it only applied to me.

post #83 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by LottaBalata View Post



I'm 37, can only hit about 33% of my fairways with my driver, but I can work the wedges, shorter irons, and putter. I know that's what keeps my scores in the 80's.

 

Funny how we're all different ... my strength is the driver and long clubs that keep my scores in the (high) 80's.    My wedges are decent, but not my strong suit (can usually get it on the green somewhere, but not reliably close to the pin), chipping is solid, but half power pitch "feel" shots and especially putting absolutely nuke my scores.

post #84 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

 

Funny how we're all different ... my strength is the driver and long clubs that keep my scores in the (high) 80's.    My wedges are decent, but not my strong suit (can usually get it on the green somewhere, but not reliably close to the pin), chipping is solid, but half power pitch "feel" shots and especially putting absolutely nuke my scores.


If I had a good, consistent and accurate drive, I am sure I could cut my strokes by 10 or more per round. More than 20 strokes if I am on a really difficult tee shot course with that many OB potentials.

 

Putting 38 to 42 per round does not help, but improvements to putting can only help me 5 to 6 strokes?

 

I need to fix the big problem first.

post #85 of 511

I lose most often to playing partners that hit approach shots closer than I do. Some of them hit them closer because they are VERY long and straight off of the tee and have shorter approach shots. One of them hits them closer because he misses VERY few fairways, not as long as I am, but has savant-like accuracy with approach shots with any club.

 

NONE of them have a better short game than I do, and the short game is the only thing that even gives me a fighting chance against them...But it is rarely enough to beat them.

 

So no matter how good my short game is it's not enough to consistently beat people that hit approach shots to a closer proximity to the hole.

post #86 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 
Funny how we're all different ... my strength is the driver and long clubs that keep my scores in the (high) 80's.    My wedges are decent, but not my strong suit (can usually get it on the green somewhere, but not reliably close to the pin), chipping is solid, but half power pitch "feel" shots and especially putting absolutely nuke my scores.

 

It is interesting.  I'm the opposite.  Had to quit carrying driver to get handicap down - which is basically the same as yours.  Curious - do you know how many greens you get or putts you make during a typical round?

post #87 of 511
As described in the original article, yeah, I would let a tour pro take all my shots from tee to within 100 yards and handle the few remaining pitches and putts myself. As to whether the long game is "more important" than the short, I will leave that to others to thrash out with these few observations.

I think accuracy trumps distance with the long game. This doesn't mean you have to hit every fairway, but it means you need to keep the ball out of real trouble or you would be better off 20 - 30 yards farther back and in the fairway. (I am not suggesting distance means nothing!) I also think until you are good enough to hit a large percentage of greens in regulation accuracy, which includes distance control, in your short game is critical. And, of course, accuracy is what putting is all about.

So, while also side stepping the issue of how much time to put into practicing any particular facet of your game, except to say I think it depends on YOUR game, I think keeping the ball under control needs to be a primary focus, whether your long drive is 300+, or closer to 240 like mine. The object remains to have a viable next shot.
post #88 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Executive summary: The long game is quite important. More important than the short game.

 

 I knew it!!! I've been arguing this with a few buddies for so long.  Thanks for the articles.  I can use the backup.  I always imagined that it just depended on the player - that maybe it was different for each guy. One might be good at short so he needs to practice long or vice versa.  But they always contend that short game practice is better for scoring better as a blanket statement.

post #89 of 511

The short game is the No. 1 most important thing in golf. If you're three-putting all the time, and taking double chips, you're throwing away 1.5 strokes a hole for no good reason.

 

That said, the No. 1.1 thing (way ahead of whatever is in second place) is the long game. Beginners need a long game that gets the tee shot in the fairway, or at least the first cut of rough. I'm not talking 300-yard drives, I'm talking a ball setting on short grass for your approach.

 

For season 1, go with the 3 wood off the tee. Or a hybrid. As you build up your swing muscles, you can add a driver in season 2.

post #90 of 511

I didn't read all the post so if I'm repeating something from earlier I apologize.  But once upon a time I accepted my Pros challenge and play a round with the longest club in my bag being a 5 I (about 185 yard for me).  My final score was within 2 strokes of my average (basically the same in other words) and as a result I was convinced that the short game was my problem as the Pro had been telling me.  Not sure it would come out the same for everyone but try it and see if it is important to your game to hit the ball long off the tee.

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