How to get the most height on chips?

**King Cobra II** · July 28, 2008

What's the best way to consistently get the most possible height on shots around the green, or inside 15 yards? And this is while using a 60 degree lob wedge

**m11** · July 28, 2008

A cut lob.

Ball in the middle of your stance. Set the face way open. Keep your back foot in the same position, but more your front foot so the stance becomes open. This allows you to keep the ball in the middle of your stance. Swing normally across your foot/body line.

If you put the ball forward in the stance, you are just going to skull the shot more times than not.

**rubbery** · July 28, 2008

The flop shot, but it's really a gamble and should really be used only when there's very little green to work with.

-open and widen your stance, and play the ball forward off your left heel
-open the clubface as much as possible
-loosen your grip to promote clubhead speed
-pick the club up steeply and cup your left wrist at the top
-make a long swing and slide the club head under the ball, accelerating through impact

The shot I would recommend is the simple pitch shot

-open your stance and clubface, but keep your feet close together, this shot is all in the hands
-play the ball off your left toe
-hold the club lightly, pick the club up steeply, and make a short, rhythmic swing
-slide the clubhead under the ball, accelerating through impact
-keep the clubface aiming at the sky through impact

**m11** · July 28, 2008

The flop shot, but it's really a gamble and should really be used only when there's very little green to work with.

im going to respectfully disagree with this entire post...and if you would like to defend yourself i wouldnt take offense...its all for the sake of getting the best answer and i might learn something

The flop/lob shot really doesnt need to be as difficult as people make it out to be. To hit it like phil mickelson from the most ridiculous lies is one thing. But to hit it from a friendly lie, with the proper technique, it should be a normal part of your arsenal. Again, you are exposing the hosel so it is a little more difficult than a pitch, but with practice, if the situation arises, you shouldnt be scared to hit it. That said, rubbery, why would you play the ball off your left heel as opposed to the middle of your stance? You are putting yourself in position to skull a majority of your shots. Your swing bottoms out in the middle of your stance, and in order for you to not skull it...you must pull your arms forward. If this isnt done properly, the bounce of the wedge will contact the ground in the middle of your stance and cause the leading edge to hit the golf ball because it is so far forward. Also, if you were to pick the club up steeply and make a long swing...all you are doing is causing your body to reverse pivot..which in turn would lead to poor contact. All a pitch shot is is the impact position of a full swing. Not terribly much should change. Instead of picking it up steeply, you need to pivot your hips away from the target, and then accelerate the club through to a half-finish. This allows you to use the club how it was meant to be used. Crashing the club down into the ball isnt whats going to give you the crispest contact. Also, why would you want to cup your wrist? Yes, this does create more loft...and im going to assume that you are using a 58 or 60* wedge to execute these shots...im also going to assume that you dont have dwight howard standing in front of you trying to swat your pitches, so you really dont need to hit it terribly high for it to stop where it lands. Cupping your wrist, i feel, just complicates the swing and adds to inconsistency. About your 'simple pitch shot' Again, you play the ball forward in the stance if you want to skull it...you play it in the middle if you want good contact. Im not saying its impossible to hit a pitch with the ball forward. for years, thats how i played it. But its certainly not the most consistant way to do it. Picking it up steeply? I dont think you want to do that. You want to pivot your hips slightly, coming in from the inside, and go to a half finish. The height of your backswing is what controls how far you want to hit it. The "slide the club under the ball" is sorta the right idea. You still are trapping the ball...however, just think to keep your left arm straight. You dont need to release too much on a pitch. Thats just what i think...and by what i think...its mainly what utley and pelz think. If you could take the time to explain your technique, rubbery, i'd definitely like to hear it.

**kafka01** · July 28, 2008

Flops are not that difficult to hit properly - but getting the distance right on these shots is imo very difficult and indeed some kind of gamble, esp. if you cant see into the green and have to flop it to a short cut pin position...

Regarding the stance - i prefer to hit it from middle pos too - it doesnt really matter much in case of the ball trajactory since it will shoot up either way if struck properly, but the chance is bigger that you skull it if you play it from your left foot than middle pos.

**michaeljames92** · July 28, 2008

I agree that the flop isn't that hard with a little practice. without being a FIGJAM i would say i am pretty good at this shot and can even play it off hard lies such as concrete(don't worry i am using my old $20 lob wedge when i do this) it is great to hit onto a green which is high and the pin is close to the fringe.

**mdrengl** · July 28, 2008

Again,

I would like to respectfully disagree the point in the bold. In general, it is common practice to hit this shot more forward in your stance to get more loft on contact. In any swing, your swing bottom should always be in front of the ball position. In order to move your swing bottom forward, you simply need to keep your left wrist straight, and your right wrist bent through out the down swing. In fact, if you do this consistently, you will never skull the shot!

And remember that all shots have hip rotation -- rotate around your body, even in a small chip shot.

**kafka01** · July 28, 2008

I would like to respectfully disagree the point in the bold. In general, it is common practice to hit this shot more forward in your stance to get more loft on contact. In any swing, your swing bottom should always be in front of the ball position. In order to move your swing bottom forward, you simply need to keep your left wrist straight, and your right wrist bent through out the down swing. In fact, if you do this consistently, you will never skull the shot!

Of course every shot has hip rotation - but there are a wide variety of shots from short distance you can do - and if we talk about a small pitch - if i want it high - i give it more wrist action (which i certainly dont like to do since it makes my shot more risky) - if i want it low i punch it a bit more without much wrist action. But to add more loft i certainly wont move the ball upfront - i will open up my clubface, since i for my self know, that i dont always bottom out after the ball (else i wouldnt be a 9hcp) so i reduce the risk of the shot by placing the ball neutral in my stance...

**mellojoe** · July 28, 2008

I think:

The farther back in your stance, the more you DE-loft the club.
The further forward in your stance, the more you ADD loft to the club.

Yes? No?

**mdrengl** · July 28, 2008

Of course every shot has hip rotation - but there are a wide variety of shots from short distance you can do - and if we talk about a small pitch - if i want it high - i give it more wrist action (which i certainly dont like to do since it makes my shot more risky) - if i want it low i punch it a bit more without much wrist action. But to add more loft i certainly wont move the ball upfront - i will open up my clubface, since i for my self know, that i dont always bottom out after the ball (else i wouldnt be a 9hcp) so i reduce the risk of the shot by placing the ball neutral in my stance...

Unfortunately, it seems as if you've missed the point. Again, your forward swing bottom can easily be manipulated by ensuring that your left wrist stays straight and your right wrist stays bent throughout your entire swing. This is helped by simply starting your hands slightly in front of the ball at address.

It appears your way of hitting short shots differs from mine. I would rather use the same swing and simply move it back or forward in my stance, instead of practicing different amounts of wrist action. Using my method, I can hit shots straight up into the air or a bump and run with spin just by moving the ball position. Of course, your way has worked for you, I am not trying to belittle your game. I'm just trying to answer the initial question made by King Cobra II.

**MonkeyClaw** · July 28, 2008

An issue I see sometimes is moving the ball to the front of your stance and skulling it. If the club has a moderate to high amount of bounce, along with a thick sole, the front/face of the club is lifted too high off the ground when the ball is moved up in the stance. I also prefer to play with the ball in the middle or slightly behind, depending on what shot I'm taking, but I'm probably not the person to emulate

**rubbery** · July 28, 2008

im going to respectfully disagree with this entire post...and if you would like to defend yourself i wouldnt take offense...its all for the sake of getting the best answer and i might learn something

I appreciate your opinion, but I stand by what I said.

Firstly, the OP is an 18.6 handicap, not the type of player I would recommend going out and hitting flop shots all the time the way I hit them, which I still believe to be the proper way. I don't mean that to be offensive, but like you said, they are easy to skull, and require lots of practice, and with that practice, there's no reason the OP can't hit them. As far as playing the ball forward and cupping the wrist is concerned, he asked for the way to get MAXIMUM HEIGHT on his short shots, and the farther forward you play the ball, and the more you open the clubface by slightly cupping your wrist, the higher the ball will go. He didn't ask "how can I not skull every pitch shot I take." Had he asked that, I would've told him to play the ball in the center of his stance, but, again, he asked for the technique to get the ball as high as possible so I gave it to him. For the record I do agree that it's an easy way to skull it without proper practice.

**jambalaya** · July 28, 2008

One point I think we ought to acknowledge is we are not talking about chips here. Why would anyone be worried about height on chips? We are talking about a pitch. A shot where we are off the green and want to get some height on the ball to land softly.

I have to go with the middle of the stance approach. Ball forward may work for some but in general I don't think it is a good idea. With a short pitch you should have a narrow stance so the ball is pretty close to the left heel anyway but certainly I would not suggest moving the ball more forward.

I find the key to getting a higher trajectory on a short pitch is an immediate wrist break to get a steep angle back to the ball and a good turn on the forward swing. You must completely turn your hips and torso so that your chest faces the target on the follow through. If not you flip the club and hit fats and thins.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to this guy. I did and my pitches sailed much higher than before. Now, if you are very close to an elevated green and must get the ball up in a hurry and stop it quick, you are just going to have to learn to play a flop shot. I don't have that shot yet but hope to work it in soon.

http://www.golflink.com/tipsvideos/video.asp?v=7223

**Socrates** · July 28, 2008

Practice a swing without a club where you follow through and toss your right hand like you would toss a ball to make it go where you want to, then move that to a swing with the club using the same trajectory with your right hand (for righties).

**m11** · July 28, 2008

I appreciate your opinion, but I stand by what I said.

Actually, Rubbery, you are correct, and that post clarifies it. Yes, cupping your wrist and playing it forward will give you the maximum height on your shots. And yes, that is what the original poster was asking.

The angle i was going with was that for someone that isn't entirely comfortable with his technique as is, i wouldnt really recommend using advanced techniques to add height. And again, the shot really isnt that terribly hard to execute. It takes more practice than a standard shot...and once you get that down, you can be hitting the moon if you want. And by advanced i dont mean it takes special talent, i just mean that it takes more practice. And just to add, I employ a similar technique as you do. If i need really do need to get it up in the air, i do move the ball forward...but as I am now, im comfortable with my standard pitch and Im certain of what i need to do to compensate for moving the ball forward. I feel that we are essentially on the same page.

**m11** · July 28, 2008

I would like to respectfully disagree the point in the bold. In general, it is common practice to hit this shot more forward in your stance to get more loft on contact. In any swing, your swing bottom should always be in front of the ball position. In order to move your swing bottom forward, you simply need to keep your left wrist straight, and your right wrist bent through out the down swing. In fact, if you do this consistently, you will never skull the shot!

It certainly is common practice, and yes it does work..and you are correct regarding golf theory. As i mentioned in my post above, I move it forward on shots that require above standard flop heights (which is very rare...i have my standard flop height...and the times i have to hit it even higher are generally if i need to get it over high bushes or something that my ball came to rest behind..probably has happened twice in my lifetime). I was suggesting that if you want to hit your standard phil mickelson high flop, you can do it from the middle of your stance with great consistency. Yes, if you need more height, you can move it forward and then compensate for that forward move...however..if you dont understand what you need to do to compensate...you are very likely to skull the ball. So yes, from a golf theory standpoint. Put the ball forward, put on your mickelson name tag, open your face wide open, open your stance, cup your wrists, cut across the ball (swing along your open stanced toe line..not the target ) ...you'll get maximum height and this really is how you want to hit the best possible cut lob shots. However, if you dont know how to hit an easy standard high flop shot, you are probably going to skull it 6/10 times..chunk it twice...1 will be the same height as a standard lob...and 1 will be beautifully struck. Those really arent the odds i'd want to take as an 18.6 hc. But yes, from the standpoint of answering the posters question, i dont disagree with the facts..those techniques will get your the maximum height on lobs (as the OP requested) ..i was just disagreeing with that being the best approach to learning how to hit a lob.

**King Cobra II** · July 29, 2008

I went to the practice green tonight and practiced this shot out of various lies, pitching over sand, and trying to land it on certain target points. In the end I played it middle front of my stance, and didn't skull very many of them. My distance control is lacking but I like the ideal of using this shot when the pin is in a guarded location.

**dave s** · July 29, 2008

I think:

This is what works for me with a trusted SW around the greens and from any lie--rough to first cut to collar of green. Back = lower, more roll; Up = higher/softer. A flop shot is required so infrequently and usually when you find yourself on the short side of the green with an obstacle between ball and pin. The lie has to accept the shot as well. Sitting up means you might undercut the shot. Too tight a lie and you may skull the shot. I've hit a lot of these just noodling around. My chance of actually pulling it off successfully even under the best of conditions is 1 of 10 ... probably lower! However, you CAN experiment with ball placement up and back in your stance to try to get higher, softer shot using your normal chipping stroke. Placing the ball up in my stance (just ahead of center) produces the higher softer shots. When I find that rare instance where the flop shot is required, I pass on the oppty making certain to a) first, clear the hazard; and b) get the ball safely onto the putting surface; c) take my shot at par, clean up for bogey, take my lumps and move on. dave

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