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post #541 of 1290

Re: 20 handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

Originally Posted by TheNatural View Post
What made you go XX and not x? I got fitted in Feb 09 for an X and I think its still too flexible. Then i was 115-120ss. Now Im playing more and loose and I think its going 120+ss and the club head may be behind the ball.(still coiled back)

Thoughts? Did you ever try x? before XX?
when i bought my tour burner i got it with a stock stiff shaft. then i got it cut down and tipped out to what is now a xx shaft which luckily work out perfect having the shaft length and stiffness all from the original shaft. i've hit many stiff flex drivers and do feel like they are a little flimsy for me but they were also not the same length as my current driver. i'd say go with the xx if your inbetween shafts and grow into it. i was also an avid weight lifter which helped out a lot with my distance/swing speed also.
post #542 of 1290

Re: 20 handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

Originally Posted by Pinseeker81 View Post
My 3w goes about as far as my driver too. I get a much lower ball flight with the 3w.
+1

My new S-9 Cobra 3w goes around 220 and straight 90% of the time my Cobra driver goes 230ish and straight about 60% of the time, when I'm swinging well the driver goes 250-260.
Most days I can out drive my buddies with my 3w
post #543 of 1290

Wow, this thread is funny. I can't believe you guys are serious. No one here believes you can hit a ball 300 yards and still be a 20 handicapper?  I can hit the ball over 300 (usually once or twice a round). I rarely break 90 and I usually score 92-98.  I can post my swing on video if you guys want to see it. How are we going to verify yardage though?  Would a launch monitor suffice? I suppose I could try to capture my swing on a launch monitor from Golfsmith.  As far as AVERAGING 300+ I certainly don't average it. I'm all over the place. Hence I'm a 20+ handicapper. However, when I hit it right in favorable conditions I can hit the ball 315. I could hit it 330 about 10-12 years and 30 pounds ago (and I was probably a 30 handicap then). I'm not a very serious golfer, I've never really put much time into my game.

 

Oh, and I have a buddy of mine from highschool that was a terrible golfer, but when we were 18-19 years old he would drive the ball well over 350 fairly consistently at the range. Granted, he is 6'8" also won state in discuss and the high jump and was 2nd team all-state in basketball, but there are people out there can really crush a golf ball that are simply not good golfers.  He probably only golfed 2-4 rounds a year when we were that age. My swing speed was about 116-118 back then, and I'd guess he was probably at least a good 15mph faster than me. It was jaw dropping to watch this guy at the range. Everyone would stop and watch, it was pretty classic.

post #544 of 1290

Mmm necro-thread-alicious!

 

To be honest it's unlikely but not impossible. Handicaps are more born more of the ability to score than the ability to drive well so I can imagine (although I've never seen it) that someone who happens to have the perfect driver swing but can't putt, chip, pitch or play irons well enough to score could happily just whack the ball as hard as he can.

 

My swing speed is 90-95mph because I prefer a smooth swing over a rampant one and I'm happy with the accuracy of my current swing. Most of my drives average around the 250 mark. Swinging as hard as I possibly could would generate much more distance I'm reasonably sure of it but I'd lose the accuracy. Still a longer drive though, accurate or not.

 

Imagine a guy who really can't play golf but can whack the ball 300y. He'd hit off the tee with a long but not straight drive and land in the rough. Then he might pitch out sideways or try to whack the ball out forward. He might have to take two shots to clear the rough or get straight out. Then he fluffs the next iron shot and has to take another to punch the ball forward. Because he's not accurate it goes into a greenside bunker. He takes two shots to get out of the bunker and lands 30y from the pin. He putts but the break's wrong so he lands 7y from the pin. He putts again but it lips out. He putts down.

 

Little wonder then that he has a 20 handicap if that's truely his golf level.

post #545 of 1290

When I was a 20 handicap, especially about a year after I started golfing, I definitely hit a few over 300.  It was in no way my average.  I'd say average was probably around 240-ish.  Back then my launch numbers were crazy because I would swing out of my shoes every damn swing.  Normal was 126 or so, high was 134.  Every once in a blue moon I'd catch one clean (i.e. just thin enough to reduce the spin a1_smile.gif) and it would get out there with probably 300 carry.  Most of the time it was really high, around 6000 rpm spin and 20 degree launch or higher.  I think my fairway % was probably 15% or so, if I had to guess.  None of this was skill.  It was simply being big and strong with your head screwed on slightly crooked.  To say that it was my average would be a lie.  Also to say 300 didn't occasionally happen would be a lie as well.  Anyways, poor mechanics and swinging hard took their toll on my body, so I had to back off and get smart...

post #546 of 1290

Should've left this thread where it was....

post #547 of 1290

I play with a couple guys that consistently hit it 290 and dead straight but they are legitimate under 5 guys.  I have played with one guy that could drive it 300 (did it a couple times both times we played together) who was a legitimate over 20 handicap.  Had unbelievable swing speed and no control so he hit maybe 4 fairways all day but two were legitimate 300 yard drives that we verified by skycaddie.  However the rest were WAY out of bounds or topped or off the toe or hosel but the two he got. . . . . . WOW!!!!!

post #548 of 1290

Well I was the exception to the rule for a lil while then but my story is a lil different than most.  I played high level baseball and batted from the left side where I generated tremendous batspeed and hit my fair share of baseballs out of the park and over the lights.  However when I started playing golf I played right handed because I was terrible left handed initially and I didn't want to ruin my baseball swing. 

 

I played for a few years and became a pretty reliable 7 handicap.  My swingspeed with the driver was 106 right handed and I was good for a dead staight 255-265 off the tee, until I injured my wrist so badly that I couldn't hold onto the club through impact.  I was left with a dilema: Either give up golf for good, or play left handed, since I didn't have a baseball swing to ruin anymore cause I no longer played.  I chose to go lefty.

 

The club pros thought I was crazy as they watched me suffer trying to make half decent contact with and iron for a couple weeks.  One club that I didn't stuggle with was the driver which for some reason was point and click from the beginning and I have no idea why. The pro walked by and I had a driver out and he saw me swing it and he stopped in his tracks and said " are you effin serious....we gotta get you on a launch monitor!"  I hit 50 drivers for them and my new swingspeed was 123 mph and my AVERAGE distance per pass was 315 with a good pass in the 330 range. This is verified by 3 club pros who were watchin the launch monitor and then played with me on the course ( Sahara Golf and Country Club in Kuwait which is at sealevel.) 

 

Now then the only dilema was that with the driver it was just let it fly....but irons and short game were a whole different animal.  Since I had played baseball there was no sense of touch or feel in my game whatsoever. So for the next month or two I would drop bombs down the fairway, or in the greenside bunker on the three short par 4's and then take a six because I couldn't even get a wedge near the green or out of the bunker.  Mind you I still putt right handed but I couldn't even get to that part cause I hadn't developed any touch and I couldn't believe that where I used to hit a 7 iron from 150 yards that now it was a pitching wedge and so I was overclubbing and hitting balls into trouble.

 

The club pro assigned me a 36 handicap because me changing over to lefty meant that I was seen as a brand new golfer to the club even though I had played to single digits right handed. My first rounds left handed where atrocious (110 plus) because I had no coordination with irons or distance control. Just because I had the mind of a single digit handicap doesn't mean that it translated over easily because I had to retrain everything.  In all fairness I went from a 36 handicap to a 6 in about 6 months because I practiced  for hours on end and developed a short game and feel with the irons. I was miserable in bunker for about a month until I just got in there one day and said that I wasn't leavin until I got 10 in a row SIMPLY OUT of the bunker no matter where they went.  I finally left the club 4 hours later drenched in sweat but that's what it took!

 

BUT FOR THE TIME WHEN I WAS A HIGH HANDICAP I AVERAGED 300 YARDS PER PASS WITH THE DRIVER AND IT WAS WITNESSED BY MULTIPLE PROS.

 

I can attest with 100% certainty that hitting your driver far has very little bearing on how well you play the game on the whole or your understanding of it. If you never develop a reasonable short game you will NEVER be a good golfer. Distance is only benefical if your short game can get you out of the trouble that your distance will put you in.    

post #549 of 1290

Heck driving it 300 might make it easier to get a 20 handicap. If you drive it 200 at 30degree off of center you have a chance to fish it out of the rough. At 300 you are 50 yards deep into the trees. I would also guess that most peoples average drive is 30 yards less than they think since most people through out the really bad ones.

 

I don't know how many people drive 300 yards with high handicaps but there are ton that drive 280 or so that shoot in 100s. That was pretty standard in HS/college for the atheletic guys who played golf twice a year to go out and crank the ball that far.  Granted only 1 in 10 hit the fairway and we probably only found half the balls but if you have a bunch of guys that lift weights and are still flexible, when they get a hold of one it goes a mile.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon View Post

Mmm necro-thread-alicious!

 

To be honest it's unlikely but not impossible. Handicaps are more born more of the ability to score than the ability to drive well so I can imagine (although I've never seen it) that someone who happens to have the perfect driver swing but can't putt, chip, pitch or play irons well enough to score could happily just whack the ball as hard as he can.

 

My swing speed is 90-95mph because I prefer a smooth swing over a rampant one and I'm happy with the accuracy of my current swing. Most of my drives average around the 250 mark. Swinging as hard as I possibly could would generate much more distance I'm reasonably sure of it but I'd lose the accuracy. Still a longer drive though, accurate or not.

 

Imagine a guy who really can't play golf but can whack the ball 300y. He'd hit off the tee with a long but not straight drive and land in the rough. Then he might pitch out sideways or try to whack the ball out forward. He might have to take two shots to clear the rough or get straight out. Then he fluffs the next iron shot and has to take another to punch the ball forward. Because he's not accurate it goes into a greenside bunker. He takes two shots to get out of the bunker and lands 30y from the pin. He putts but the break's wrong so he lands 7y from the pin. He putts again but it lips out. He putts down.

 

Little wonder then that he has a 20 handicap if that's truely his golf level.



 

post #550 of 1290

Interesting discussion,

 

I know from the past that I'm entering a sensitive area, but I just want to give everyone out there something to think about.

 

Did you ever measure the shaft on your driver? It's surprising to me how many golfers out there purchase new drivers without even knowing how long the shaft is. Oh, and by the way, the shaft length is measured not to where the shaft meets the clubhead but by where the shaft would come out of the bottom of the clubhead. There have been many good points mentioned above in this thread, but I'm not sure whether or not anybody has mentioned shaft material and length. Go ahead, get your driver and take a tape measure to it. My guess is that it is most probably 44 to 45 inches long.

 

The shaft length and material is the engine of distance. (Assuming of course, a good swing has been applied.)

The reason why "Joe Average" can occasionally hit the ball 250-300 yards is because he is holding a driver with a 44, 45 or possibly a 46 inch shaft ( which by the way, is made out of a very light exotic material.) And yes, for most of the Joe Averages, the good swing is very occasional.

 

How many out there realize that Jack Nicklaus in his prime used a steel shafted persimmon driver that measured....42 and 3/4 inches? (Golf My Way-Equipment Chapter, pg 60)

Search "young Jack Nicklaus" on youtube. You'll see someone who could have easily played college football in his day. This guy was seriously strong.

His average drive was probably a "faded" 270 to 280. (Yes, he could hit it 300.)

 

Jack Nicklaus or any of the other greats of the past could have increased their shaft length to 44, 45 or 46 inches if they wanted to.  But they encountered two trade-offs.

 

First, the longer shaft made it more difficult to hit a straight shot. (This still applies today)

Second, the longer shaft made it more difficult to hit the sweet spot on the insert of the persimmon club face. And this, they knew, was a big key to distance.

The second point is why, imho, most pros and amateurs did not go with a longer shaft, it made it more difficult to hit the standard (190cc-200cc?) clubhead square on the insert.

 

The new (400-460cc) drivers of today make it possible to increase the shaft length and still be able to go at the ball 100% and still have a chance to hit it. Not only that, there is no insert on the face so you can basically hit it anywhere on the face and it will fly off far and...somewhere...

 

I believe that this is not really in the spirit of the game (especially at the professional or serious amateur level.) IMHO, A huge skill component has been removed.

 

Can you imagine a baseball bat being made out of Titanium and having its diameter doubled? Would you even watch baseball anymore??? Snore.....

 

Check out your favorite course. My bet is that most were probably built sometime up to about 1960. Are you really playing the course fairly by using a 45 or 46 inch driver with a grapefruit sized head of hollow Titanium??? Be honest now...

 

The new drivers are not "new technology" as much as they are new marketing and salesmanship. (Distance, distance, distance.)

 

I personally play a 43.5 inch steel shafted persimmon driver and play the game that I want to play, not the handicap "feel good" game that the corporations want to sell me on.

 

Nutmeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by NutmegGolfer - 8/3/11 at 5:13pm
post #551 of 1290

Smells like sour grapes to me... 

 

If you want to argue that it takes more skill to hit the clubs of yesteryear, then of course we all agree with you. However, translating that into the implication that hitting modern equipment is tantamount to cheating is an egregious misclassification.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutmegGolfer View Post

Interesting discussion,

 

I know from the past that I'm entering a sensitive area, but I just want to give everyone out there something to think about.

 

Did you ever measure the shaft on your driver? It's surprising to me how many golfers out there purchase new drivers without even knowing how long the shaft is. Oh, and by the way, the shaft length is measured not to where the shaft meets the clubhead but by where the shaft would come out of the bottom of the clubhead. There have been many good points mentioned above in this thread, but I'm not sure whether or not anybody has mentioned shaft material and length. Go ahead, get your driver and take a tape measure to it. My guess is that it is most probably 44 to 45 inches long.

 

The shaft length and material is the engine of distance. (Assuming of course, a good swing has been applied.)

The reason why "Joe Average" can occasionally hit the ball 250-300 yards is because he is holding a driver with a 44, 45 or possibly a 46 inch shaft ( which by the way, is made out of a very light exotic material.) And yes, for most of the Joe Averages, the good swing is very occasional.

 

How many out there realize that Jack Nicklaus in his prime used a steel shafted persimmon driver that measured....42 and 3/4 inches? (Golf My Way-Equipment Chapter, pg 60)

Search "young Jack Nicklaus" on youtube. You'll see someone who could have easily played college football in his day. This guy was seriously strong.

His average drive was probably a "faded" 270 to 280. (Yes, he could hit it 300.)

 

Jack Nicklaus or any of the other greats of the past could have increased their shaft length to 44, 45 or 46 inches if they wanted to.  But they encountered two trade-offs.

 

First, the longer shaft made it more difficult to hit a straight shot. (This still applies today)

Second, the longer shaft made it more difficult to hit the sweet spot on the insert of the persimmon club face. And this, they knew, was a big key to distance.

The second point is why, imho, most pros and amateurs did not go with a longer shaft, it made it more difficult to hit the standard (190cc-200cc?) clubhead square on the insert.

 

The new (400-460cc) drivers of today make it possible to increase the shaft length and still be able to go at the ball 100% and still have a chance to hit it. Not only that, there is no insert on the face so you can basically hit it anywhere on the face and it will fly off far and...somewhere...

 

I believe that this is not really in the spirit of the game (especially at the professional or serious amateur level.) IMHO, A huge skill component has been removed.

 

Can you imagine a baseball bat being made out of Titanium and having its diameter doubled? Would you even watch baseball anymore??? Snore.....

 

Check out your favorite course. My bet is that most were probably built sometime up to about 1960. Are you really playing the course fairly by using a 45 or 46 inch driver with a grapefruit sized head of hollow Titanium??? Be honest now...

 

The new drivers are not "new technology" as much as they are new marketing and salesmanship. (Distance, distance, distance.)

 

I personally play a 43.5 inch steel shafted persimmon driver and play the game that I want to play, not the handicap "feel good" game that the corporations want to sell me on.

 

Nutmeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

post #552 of 1290

 

 

Quote:
I personally play a 43.5 inch steel shafted persimmon driver and play the game that I want to play, not the handicap "feel good" game that the corporations want to sell me on.

 

This line is hilarious.

post #553 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutmegGolfer View Post

Check out your favorite course. My bet is that most were probably built sometime up to about 1960. Are you really playing the course fairly by using a 45 or 46 inch driver with a grapefruit sized head of hollow Titanium??? Be honest now...

 

The new drivers are not "new technology" as much as they are new marketing and salesmanship. (Distance, distance, distance.)

 

 


Well... my home course is Terra Lago (formerly Landmark)... it was home to the Skins Game and opened in 1999 if I remember correctly... next on my list of courses I play a lot is SilverRock resort which opened in 2005.  The course I played today, The Golf Club at La Quina (formerly Trilogy at La Quinta, and the home to the Skins Game after Landmark) was also built in the 2000s (I think it was 2002).

 

My question to you is, if I'm playing new course that was built with today's clubs in mind can I use a new driver?  What about if it is an older course that has been redesigned or lengthened?

 

Look... using new clubs isn't agains the spirit of the game... I'm curious where you draw the line... do you only use blades and if so how old... Are today's that much more advanced over a model from the '60s or '70s, or are those still too new?

post #554 of 1290


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanhilton85 View Post

 

Look... using new clubs isn't agains the spirit of the game... I'm curious where you draw the line... do you only use blades and if so how old... Are today's that much more advanced over a model from the '60s or '70s, or are those still too new?


 

 

I agree.  To be honest the only line drawn is where the USGA draws it.  There is no point to argue about the line.  If the USGA says you can use it....use it.  I don't really like when people talk about the "spirit" of the game.  Technology and innovation evolve over time for any sport.  It only makes it better and more enjoyable for the average amateur.  I guarantee there would be no a lot less golfers playing today if we still used 42" persimmon insert drivers.  New innovation has made it easier for beginners to come out and actually enjoy the game.  One of the best feelings for a beginner golfer is to wack one 250+ off the tee.  I think its just good for golf.  

 

My point is every sport has had new innovation and technology to better the game.  Would you say receivers in the NFL using gloves that act like glue to catch the ball is against the "Spirit of the game"?  probably not. 

post #555 of 1290

I sure hope he isn't one of those wimps that use steel shafts, groves on his irons and rubber balls. Real men play with ash clubs and the leather golf balls. I am pretty sure that was the refrain in 1850 or so.

 

Modern clubs might be changing the pro game but if your not out shooting sub 70s on the course,  I think you could probably use more help from your equipment.

 
 
Originally Posted by tristanhilton85 View Post


Look... using new clubs isn't agains the spirit of the game... I'm curious where you draw the line... do you only use blades and if so how old... Are today's that much more advanced over a model from the '60s or '70s, or are those still too new?



 

post #556 of 1290

I have known one 20+ handicapper that could hit it 300 yards - but I really dont think 200 yards out and 100 yards left really counted (he was a lefty that had absolutely no short game)

post #557 of 1290

I had a 46" golf shaft on my driver, and i had it cut to 44". Guess what i hardly lost any distance, maybe 5 yards at most, but i gained more accuracy. So most of my distance lost with the 46" shaft was caused by not hitting the center of the clubhead. 

post #558 of 1290

im a 24 capper, and I can hit 300 yards, measured on various distance lasers etc etc,...................but only managed it twice in a number of years playing.

 

I can advocate alot of what people say that high cappers can hit long drives but not improve there game, i consistently drive long (rarely measure, but im always further than friends who are low cappers) but my short game sucks ass, i played yesterday and took 4 shots to get out of a bunker, after a stonking drive

 

if i were to guestimate my average driving distance i would imagine it would probably be around the 240-260 yards, as i outdrive most of my buddies, i dont usually measure it because im not a number chaser and dont need to boost my ego,

 

high cappers that average 300+ are full of shit

 

high cappers who can occasionally hit a 300+ have probably never measured it, but its not beyond the realms of comprehension

 

Anyone that clearly dismisses a high capper from ever being able to hit 300+ is just a sure fire idiot looking for a response or an argument, you could have the worst swing in the world but nothing says that 1/100 attempts you couldnt pure that biatch and rip its skin off

 

 

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