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20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant) - Page 33  

post #577 of 1290

gspjeb,

 

Your last comment really has me chuckling, because I think it's dead on target for most of us. Do we all have that subconscious urge to go to the driving ranges that slope downwards out into the distance? I think Bob Jones put it best when he said that  "...when a yard becomes thirty-six inches of level ground, three hundred of them go a long way." ("Bobby Jones on Golf"-Chap.8-Driving for Distance)

 

Let's not forget about C.O.R. (Coefficient of Restitution) The measure of the efficiency in the transfer of energy in a collision.

For an interesting discussion/explanation of C.O.R. , see the following link:

 

http://www.golfclub-technology.com/coefficient-of-restitution.html

 

The persimmon clubs which were used for decades before the Titanium shells were rolled out, had C.O.R.'s of about .78, or about 78 percent efficiency.

When the first metal drivers came out (which, by the way, did not differ much in volume from the persimmon drivers of the day) I doubt that the C.O.R. changed much. (I did a quick search and did not find any figures.) That's because the first metal drivers did not "give" like the current Titanium shells do.

 

However, the new "modern" hollow Titanium heads have C.O.R.'s of about .83 , or about 83 percent efficiency.  (The USGA put their foot down at .822 with a tolerance of .008)

Assuming the club hits the ball on a very small area in just the right spot with a swing speed of 100mph, this is going to translate to 4.2 yards for every increase in C.O.R.

So, from .78 to .83 is a factor of 5 multiplied by 4.2 yards = 21 yards.  

 

That's 21 yards increase in the drive given a swing speed of 100mph. When the swing speed increases the increase in yards per unit of C.O.R. will also increase. (Read the above link)

 

Now, why does the new "modern" driver have a C.O.R. of close to or about .83? 

Because the thin wall of Titanium (or other exotic material) "gives" a bit when the collision with the ball happens. This results in an increase in the transfer of energy to the ball.

 

Take a look at the picture that they have at the top of the article in the link above. It shows you what the new clubs are doing. The picture is obviously exaggerated for the purpose of demonstration, but the point is made... We basically have a Trampoline or Tennis Racket effect incorporated into the new drivers.

 

Add this to the lighter and longer exotic shaft materials of today, along with a ball that is "hotter" (so correctly pointed out by saevel25, and probably itself accounting for 15-20 yards) and the fact that it is easy to at least hit the ball when you are tossing a 460cc shell of Titanium at it, and there we have a pretty good explanation as to why the 20 handicapper can achieve some ridiculous distances.

 

"In a time of Universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

 

Included is a picture from Wikipedia comparing the "new" driver? to the persimmon driver that was used for decades.

 

At what point do we draw the line between a "sport called golf" , and a "feel good leisure time activity" that anyone can perform and keeps everyone happy?

 

Driveroldnew.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by NutmegGolfer - 8/8/11 at 8:00pm
post #578 of 1290

funny thread...  mild rant away...  I wish it wasn't but this is me.  I am getting back into the game after a 5-year hiatus.

 

My handicap is easily 20 or more right now.  The thing is that I hit the ball a freaking mile.  Just a lot of times OB and in the hazards, rarely in the fairway.  But I wouldn't say I average 300, and that's just because the hazards and OB markers keep getting in the way.  And slicing as much as I am takes a lot of length off the drive.  Swing speed is definitely there though.  Believe it or not, back in my former days, I once hit a PW into a 515 yard par 5 on my second shot.  I seem to remember that the drive was around 360 (25 mph wind assist, huge kick off a hill, fairway was really firm, 2200 feet of altitude, you get it...).  My handicap was more like 8 at the time.

 

But lately, its been just awful.  Just a sample of pathetic-scoring, holes in recent memory:

 

9th hole on Saturday.  The hole is up a hill, slight down slope and then further up the again hill, from the blue tees it's about 390 or something but it plays like a lot more.  I hit a monster draw up over the hill and land on the downslope, I get a huge kick forward because of the downslope and the draw.  I am staring down 83 yards up the hill to the center of the green and I am in the fairway.  I figure it's a full SW because it's going up the hill.  I chunk it in front of a bunker on the right side of the green, pitch another in the bunker, hit out of the bunker and two-putt.  6.  Yup, it's pretty damn pathetic.  And lately, that's how most holes are going.

 

16 on Saturday, a 420 yeard par 4 with a crazy tee elevation.  I stripe the drive and only have 85 or so to the center of the green.  Pin is on the back, so it's a 3/4 sand wedge.  I skull it over the green into the weeds for a lost ball (never found it), I had played a provisonal and hit the ball to about 15 feet and two putt.  6.

 

6 on Tuesday, It's a par 5 and my score is already sucking for the day, I decided to work on my game.  I am going to get rid of the slice and decide to set up my swing path more inside-out.  First tee shot, goes off the heel, a complete shank into the weeds (lost ball), I hit another exactly the same.  I abandon the inside-out and hit a crappy fade/slice only about 250, next shot I laid up because the hole is very long and against the wind (and I have no faith in my 3W), next I hit my SW to about 5 feet from 90 yds and down for 8.  Good recovery you might argue...  My buddy (six handycapper) and I got a good laugh because he doubled and we ended up pushing the hole.

 

At any rate, I realize the absolute farce of a player that I am right now.  Yup, the 300+ yard shot that I hit counts every bit as much as the other five crappy ones that I hit and whatever penalty strokes I accrue.  Lately its a huge fight to simply keep the ball in play, on a lot of holes I have resorted to hitting 3 iron off the tee.  When it's working, it's actually a pretty good option.  In fact, I out drove my playing buddy (same six handicapper), with my four iron last week, it probably went 240 with some wind assist.  We laughed at that one too. 

 

The fact is, there is a lot more to golf than a big tee-ball.  For me right now, that big ball only goes farther in the wrong direction getting me into more trouble.  Right now, I would gladly trade it for a little consistency tee to green and some touch around the greens.  Just need some more time I hope...

post #579 of 1290

I am up there in the handicap, but the reason why I have a high handicap is because I can't control the big drive every hole. If i Have say a 400 yard ish par 4 I am easily driver to wedge as long as it went into the fairway. I probably lose about 8 shots a round because of my driver and then another 5-6 on poor chips and missed putts. Sounds easy to correct, but damn its a pain in the ass trying

post #580 of 1290

Id say there are a lot of guys high handicap or whatever that can amp up the swing speed needed for a 300 yard drive.  But they may only catch one clean enough to do it 1 out of a 100 times.   I know a lot of guys that can hit the ball a ton but but have no idea where its going.  Once in there life their life they end up hittting one down the fairway and all of a sudden its "I hit my driver 300 yds"  Well if I buy enough scratch off's, I'll hit the lottery too.... Swing speed is a big factor which alot of peope can accomplish but for driver its coming in on the right path with a square club face and a correct angle of attack and hitting the sweet spot that optimizes distance.       

post #581 of 1290

A baseball player I knew comes to mind, great guy, hit the ball a mile (much longer than me), drove the ball 300+ every time, drove a 360-yard green one time, surpisingly straight hitter too.  He did not score well at all though.  Part of his problem was that he had huge gaps between clubs.  He probably needed irons with custom lofts, half irons if you will.  He really struggled around the greens.  For that matter, anything that wasn't a full swing was a struggle for him.

 

At any rate, the bad of the Internet is that it lets you say whatever you want without any references or proof or logic or any basis for fact, that is true.  And there are a lot of delusional, unchecked people out there, I will agree.  But my point is, there are, in fact, big stong guys out there that hit the ball really far and sometimes really far and straight and have little abilty to get the ball in the hole in relation to par.  Length is not that important to scoring as far as I am concerned.  And length without accuracy is a scoring disaster.  

post #582 of 1290

Saw a kid (16-18) at the range today, but didn't pay any attention to him until I heard these loud whacks from a driver and looked over.  It was the kid, one right after with the ball hitting way up on the fence which is 275 yards.  I saw the pro walk over and ask him how long he's been golfing, said it was his first time and was borrowing his friends driver which his friend confirmed.  Kid said he played H.S. baseball and football and just swung naturally.  I was just about done with my practice and left, but I could see the pro drooling trying to get the kid to take some lessons.  I'm not sure if he was lying or if he could do it again tomorrow, but today he was hitting them all 275+ and most would have hit the fairway. 

post #583 of 1290

I don't average 300 yard but when I was a 36 handicapper (30 now!) I had a drive that CARRIED 300 yard. It was a local golf event and men played from the blue tee.

Long par 5 dog leg left and at the bend if you go straight it's OB. I hit the ball straight ahead (instead of cutting the woods for the dogleg to stay on the fairway...) and landed outside the OB stakes into a small hill, ball stucked into the dirt and took a while to find, obviously it din't rolll. Caddie told me that the OB stakes was 300 yards from the blue tee. and my ball landed just outside of it. I looked at the hole layouton google earth and it was just as far as what the caddie said.

 

Another time on a 320 yard par 4. I hit a drive to within chipping distance (10 yard off the green). Still got a picture of that :)

 

Being a newbie doesn't mean I can't drive far, sometimes! It doesn't go straight most of the time though.. lol

post #584 of 1290

IMHO, a 20 handicapper could be hitting 300 yard drives. Most of them never on target, maybe 4 out of 14 fairways hit. Probably 3-7 lost balls of drives or a real bad short game. Just because you can hit the ball 300 doesn't mean squat if you can't control it. I've played with Jim Anderson's (ex mlb player) son and he nailed a ball 385 yard off the tee on a up hill par 4 15-20 ft past the hole and sink the putt for his eagle. You would think his score would be in  single digit over par but he ended up w/ 12. His accuracy with his mid irons weren't that great and he also lost a couple balls on errant drives. So don't be quick to call out BS but not to say that everyone tells the truth...

post #585 of 1290

For me it's not just the high handicappers hitting 300 yards that I don't believe.  I also don't believe the low cappers that hit 300 yards.  While I think it can be done it is a really low percentage that average 300.  200 yards straight and 100 yards right does not mean you just drove it 300 yards.  I have hit 2-5 drives that have traveled 300 yards in 4 years (google earth).  And I hit farther than most at my home course.

 

I just don't like the debate that I hit 300 yards but its not accurate.  If you are slicing the ball a ton it won't go 300 yards.  Straightest drives (to slight pulls) go the farthest.

 

Many times the pros won't hit the golf ball 300 yards and I doubt a lot of new golfers are generating that kind of torque and body turn and ball contact.

post #586 of 1290

Keegan Bradley over the weekend comes to my mind...  Late in the Sunday round, he hit some kind of hybrid on a par 4 that left him with 195 into a green over water.  Then he stuck his 5 iron right at the pin and it almost went in.  Sunk the putt for birdie just as the wheels were coming off for Dufner.  I think it was Keegan's playing partner that hit driver into the bunker and bogeyed on that same hole basically taking him out of contention (sorry my memory sucks, I may have it all wrong). 

 

So, what is the obsession with the 300 yard drive and a wedge into the green all about anyway?  It's pretty obvious that being in the fairway is more important than 300 yards for the best in the world.  Shouln't that be good enough for us?

 

In fact, I am going change my tune entirely and mildly rant about you guys that hit it 275 dead straight, hit a solid iron and putt for birdie, sometimes it goes in but most likely it's a tap in for par, but hardly ever a dreaded 3-putt.  And in the somewhat unlikely event that you guys miss the green you have the skills around the green to get up and down for par, bogey at worst.  All your handicaps are all under 10, some of you 3s, 4s, and 5s.  And then, and then, you have the audacity to mildly rant about us poor souls who would rather be scoring well, even if it meant sacrificing a bit of distance.  We'd gladly shed our large powerful frames, high swing speeds, erratic drives, hooks and slices, and penalty strokes for some cotton picking consistency.  And oh, don't mention what we'd do for a 78 or a 79 sometime.  To you I say, Feh!  There, I said it, yeah, what's up?

 

At any rate, I may have just overrun my welcome as newb on the forum.  All in good fun, I hope!  f1_cool.gif

post #587 of 1290

Driving 300 yards is nothing...

Last weekend I hit a hybrid 400 yards off the fairway.

With 200 yard to the hole, I hit a my super power fade but it went and hit a tree next to the green.

Than bounced strait back and started bouncing down the cart path. It stopped right next to me.

Had to laugh really never seen anything like it.

So yea thats 400 yards.

post #588 of 1290

Im not buying this at all...............20 Handicappers????? Sounds like a bunch of EGO to me. And Im a 24 HCP

post #589 of 1290


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


Rich, there are such things. Some drivers create more spin than others. Same for shafts. The higher the center of gravity, the "lower spin" the driver is. It's absolutely true and I encourage you to look into it more if you're so inclined.

 

Compare, for example, the 910D3 with the 910D2. Or this older one:

titleist_909_driver_spin_launch_chart.jpg


 

Thanks for that post.  I didn't have this data when I switched from the 905R to the 909D2, but I liked it better because it seemed to visually have the launch angle I wanted with a touch less spin.  It's good to know that my visuals correspond to reality there. 

 

post #590 of 1290

I hit three drives over 300 in round on Monday.  One of those rolled OB, so technically, I had 300+ yard drives on only two holes.  I scored 101, adjusted to 98, yeah, I had three 8s.  I did not average 300, I don't average 300, I hope I made that clear before.  Believe me, there is little ego in my golf game or my posting.  Maybe a poor attempt at humor here and there but I am just a humble dude seeking the path of lower scoring.  It's going to come... need to implement some swing changes and keep working on touch around the greens.  I can post a video of my swing(s) (old/inconsistent and new/in progress) if you guys like, and you can tell me I can't hit it 300 with either.

 

At any rate, I stick to my original argument, length ≠ scoring.  If that were true long drive champs would be PGA champs, and the PGA would be dominated by guys that look like today's baseball players.  They actually come in a lot of varieties, lean, lumpy, scrawney, short, tall, double-chinned.  Give it up and take golf as a game for what it is, accuracy.

 

<edited for grammar>

post #591 of 1290

I just feel like course markers inflate people a bit.  I googled earthed my driving range and in order to hit a drive 310 yards you would have to land it on the tee box at the end of the range.  The closets I have ever seen a ball to that tee box is 30 to 40 yards away.  The second hole plays at 315 and I can hit one onto the green.  But it doglegs extremely sharp and is just a little over 260 to the green if you take the dog leg.  On hole 4 there is a creek that runs about 315 yards from the blue tees and 280 from the red tees.  I have hit a total of 2 balls in that creak from the red tees.  And the closest I have come from the blue tees is 25-30 yards.  I have never seen another golfer hit into that creak and 90% of the people play from the reds.  There is also a par 5 that measures 515 but i google earthed it at about 460-470.  There was a time when I hit a drive to 175 out which I was sure was 340 yards, stupid me with google earth it was around 280- 285.

 

Trust me you NEVER hit as far as you think.  Tee box to yardage markers are not very accurate, however I did notice that yardage markers to green is usually quite accurate.  So if you strike a 5 iron from 200 out and reach the middle of the green, it more than likely was a 200 yard shot.

 

The biggest thing to look for is any type of dogleg, if you cut the dogleg you can't use the yardage markers to judge distance.

post #592 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post

Trust me you NEVER hit as far as you think.

 

 

Some people use a rangefinder or a GPS and they do know how far they hit it. You can also use it once or twice on each hole on the course to either confirm of refute the marked yardages.

post #593 of 1290

As I told my playing partner last round...its not terribly hard to hit a ball 300 yards, but its insanely hard to do it consistently and with a consistent shot pattern.  I don't care how far you say you hit the ball...I'm just gonna ask you what you shoot.

post #594 of 1290

As a total golf novice who has hit over one 300 yard drives (2), I can maybe shed some light. 

 

I know F all about golf tactics. I Youtube'd "how to hit a driver". I hit it with gusto and very little consistency. I score over 100 because my second shots are all out of the rough and my putting sucks. Why is it so hard to believe? average might be hard to believe but to me 300 yards doesn't seem remarkable if I have done it after only a few months. Unless you're telling me that I'm awesome. Unless I'm lying (I'm not) or I'm the world's most amazing golfer in the making (I wish... but I'm not) 

 

p.s this has been verified by the course markers and google earth. you can see the yardage markers and tee boxes. ball finishing by the 200 yard marker on a 508 yard hole

 

I'm 5'6" which some giants consider small and into 'bat and ball' sports since I was smaller but I'm an unremarkable chap in my 30's. If I can do it then it seems like it's not a big deal 

 

 

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