Why does Titleist not offer the Proforce V2 shaft as a stock shaft anymore?

**Hokie2k5** · January 14, 2009

Kind of frustrating, I love the shaft and have to pay a $70 upcharge for a shaft that was standard on all last year's models.

Anyone have an insight as to why?

I realize that the Diamana and the VooDoo are good shafts but the V2 was very popular and can't be any more expensive than those.

**Dub** · January 14, 2009

Don't know. The V2 sure has been a popular series....I can't imagine why they don't offer it.

**DavidFehertysBike** · January 14, 2009

Yeah that kind of frustrated me with their 909 models, too. Its one of the major reasons why i dont use one as my driver. I demoed one with the diamana, and it worked ok, but i think i prefer my V2. Its silly to have to pay an upcharge on such a popular shaft.

***iacas*** · January 15, 2009

Anyone have an insight as to why?

Because they had an opportunity to give customers a $350 shaft as part of their driver.

Because the current model drivers work better with the stock shafts. I don't think you appreciate how much effort goes into matching the performance of the shafts with the heads in the stock offerings. You can't just pick whatever shaft you want and stick it in an independently developed head. They work hand in hand.

**Crafty** · January 15, 2009

Because they had an opportunity to give customers a $350 shaft as part of their driver.

Very true. Many (if not the vast majority) of the drivers developed now-a-days are designed with a certain shaft in mind. So if they can design a head around any shaft they want, why not use the latest and greatest to reel in every last possible customer?

**pshizz** · January 15, 2009

Because they had an opportunity to give customers a $350 shaft as part of their driver.

Im not sure your qualified to say that he doesnt appreciate the effort titleist has put into their woods.

Anyways, i was wondering the same thing...I really hate the Blueboard, and the voodoo is nice, but i prefer the v2. I wish that titleist would not charge such large ammounts for shafts that cost less than the stock ones.

***iacas*** · January 15, 2009

So if they can design a head around any shaft they want, why not use the latest and greatest to reel in every last possible customer?

The Voodoos are the hot shaft. They're a heckuva lot newer (and hotter) than the V2. The V2's a pretty old shaft, really.

Im not sure your qualified to say that he doesnt appreciate the effort titleist has put into their woods.

I didn't say that. I said the OP doesn't seem to appreciate the fine-tuned PAIRING of driver head and shaft. Titleist felt the V2 didn't fit the performance characteristics of the head. They're developed in tandem. It's a nuance the OP seemed to miss.

Anyways, i was wondering the same thing...I really hate the Blueboard, and the voodoo is nice, but i prefer the v2. I wish that titleist would not charge such large ammounts for shafts that cost less than the stock ones.

It's generally best not to assume things. You're assuming you know the price Titleist pays for their shafts.

I'll make up some numbers to illustrate my point. Let's suppose Titleist makes a deal to get a million of Shaft A. They pay $20/shaft thanks to volume discounts and get a slightly tweaked version of the shaft that works even better in their product while still remaining true to the name and brand. This shaft might sell for $350 to you at retail because you're not buying a million of 'em, and because the company can charge that much. Titleist doesn't make a deal to buy a bunch of Shaft B because it's not the best general fit for their product, but they know that some of their customers might want it. They don't get a volume discount, so they pay nearly the same as the retail price for the shafts: $70 or so for Titleist, $95 at retail. You don't know the economies at play here, and you can't assume that everything is marked up the same percentage.

**clubmaker15** · January 15, 2009

From what I have been hearing, the VooDoo and Diamana have their issues and sounds like some are reshafting because they are unstable. The V2 was a great stock option!

**denver_nuggs_15** · January 15, 2009

Let's suppose Titleist makes a deal to get a million of Shaft A. They pay $20/shaft thanks to volume discounts and get a slightly tweaked version of the shaft that works even better in their product while still remaining true to the name and brand. This shaft might sell for $350 to you at retail because you're not buying a million of 'em, and because the company can charge that much. Titleist doesn't make a deal to buy a bunch of Shaft B because it's not the best general fit for their product, but they know that some of their customers might want it. They don't get a volume discount, so they pay nearly the same as the retail price for the shafts: $70 or so for Titleist, $95 at retail. You don't know the economies at play here, and you can't assume that everything is marked up the same percentage.

It's called Economies of Scale. It's a very valid point. Does Titleist put V2's in any other clubs (fairway woods, etc.)? If so, they probably get a very good deal on them as well.

It really doesn't make sense why you'd have to pay a $70 upcharge. Titleist should make it work. They are one of the largest golf compainies in the world. There is not a chance that they buy the shaft at the same price as your local clubmaker or pro shop...not a chance. Maybe it should be like a $30 upcharge, but definately not the cost of the shaft on Golfsmith.com.

**michaeljames92** · January 15, 2009

I really hate the Blueboard

A lot of people say they don't like it. I am enjoying mine. It might just be the shaft for me.

The Voodoo and BB which come stock with the 909's, are they the same as the actual Voodoo and BB or are they not as good and are just being sold under the name to sell their driver? Does Adam Scott still use the V2 in his 909(If he is still using it and not the 905) ?

**DavidFehertysBike** · January 15, 2009

A lot of people say they don't like it. I am enjoying mine. It might just be the shaft for me.

From what ive read they are the actual shafts tweaked for the 909 head. They're probably not knock-offs. But you never know. I dont know what Scott is playing these days, (i saw a picture of him using a 909 with the newer UST shaft though) but Davis Love III was using a V2 in his 909 at the Mercedes last weekend.

***iacas*** · January 15, 2009

It's called Economies of Scale. ... It really doesn't make sense why you'd have to pay a $70 upcharge.

It makes perfect sense... if it costs Titleist $55 (extra shaft expense, extra labor, etc.) they'll charge you $70.

Titleist should make it work. They are one of the largest golf compainies in the world.

And they'd quickly fall out of that ranking if they started taking a loss on their golf equipment because some kid on a forum thought it made sense.

There is not a chance that they buy the shaft at the same price as your local clubmaker or pro shop...not a chance. Maybe it should be like a $30 upcharge, but definately not the cost of the shaft on Golfsmith.com.

You don't know that (and frankly, I don't either). Golfsmith might even buy more than Titleist.

**Hokie2k5** · January 15, 2009

Because they had an opportunity to give customers a $350 shaft as part of their driver.

1 - There's NO WAY the stock BB and Voodoo are the same as the regular versions. Name one tour pro that plays the stock shaft. None of them do, I do believe they may be similar models and tweaked to work with the 909 head but if they were the same $350 model there wouldn't be an upcharge for ANY different shaft or the driver would cost $800. Much like they basically did with the AP2's and the Project X.

2 - The V2 works just fine for Adam Scott, DLIII, and Stricker in the 909 head, not to mention I've been fitted for the V2 shaft so I would like to keep with what works best FOR ME. 3 - Of course I appreciate Titleist's hard work in all their equipment, look at my sig, IT'S ALL I PLAY! The V2 is the first "stock" shaft that Titleist ever offered that worked for me. Titleist offers custom shafts for a reason, and since I've played with exclusively Titleist clubs for probably the past 10 years, I've also noticed they don't offer every shaft under the sun as a custom option......They only offer certain shafts that will work well with their heads. If the V2 didn't work with this head they wouldn't offer it........PERIOD. I have ordered an 909D3 with the V2 shaft, I was just a little pissed they took a stock shaft from last year and want a $70 upcharge for it. I think it's BS, if they offer a supposed $350 stock shaft then a V2 shouldn't cost more. The Voodoo is a good shaft, I just totally prefer the V2.

***iacas*** · January 15, 2009

1 - There's NO WAY the stock BB and Voodoo are the same as the regular versions. Name one tour pro that plays the stock shaft. None of them do, I do believe they may be similar models and tweaked to work with the 909 head but if they were the same $350 model there wouldn't be an upcharge for ANY different shaft or the driver would cost $800. Much like they basically did with the AP2's and the Project X.

I'll try it again: just because you're charged $350 at retail doesn't mean the shaft costs $300 to make (or to buy in volume). For all you know it might cost Aldila $12 to make a Voodoo and their execs are laughing their heads off every time someone buys one for $350.

As for whether it's the same shaft or not, that question's been answered several times. Here's one place . It's the same shaft with a slightly higher torque rating because the slightly higher torque felt better and performed better in the Titleist driver heads.

2 - The V2 works just fine for Adam Scott, DLIII, and Stricker in the 909 head, not to mention I've been fitted for the V2 shaft so I would like to keep with what works best FOR ME.

So do so. Nothing's stopping you. Hell, I have a V2 myself (look at my sig) because the Voodoo launches a bit too high for me.

They only offer certain shafts that will work well with their heads. If the V2 didn't work with this head they wouldn't offer it........PERIOD.

You're still missing the point. For the majority of people, it doesn't work BEST with these heads. Titleist saw the opportunity to provide a hot, great performing shaft in the Voodoo (and the Diamana). Though it'd be nice if they could offer 15 stock shafts, the economies of scale (volume discounts) wouldn't be available if they did that.

Titleist - and the consumers - would rather see 10M $400 drivers and 1M $470 drivers than 11M $440 drivers. If there were ten or fifteen stock shafts available, the price on every driver would be higher.

**Hokie2k5** · January 15, 2009

Fine, I'm certainly not trying to start a war here. Thanks for your input, it still doesn't make sense to me that the cost of a shaft they were buying in huge quantities since it was a stock shaft up until very recently would now require an upcharge. But it does, we could argue this until we're blue in the face but there's no point.

But what else is there to talk about in the winter?

***iacas*** · January 15, 2009

Fine, I'm certainly not trying to start a war here. Thanks for your input, it still doesn't make sense to me that the cost of a shaft they were buying in huge quantities since it was a stock shaft up until very recently would now require an upcharge.

I know you're not - I'm just trying to share some information. I'm glad you've been receptive to it.

For all we know, Titleist's last big buy from UST might have been in May '08. We don't know, but it's unlikely they weren buying "huge quantities" "very recently" given that sales of one model of driver tend to plummet (from the OEM anyway) when the next model is announced. I have the UST too - I think it's a better shaft for me.

**Hokie2k5** · January 15, 2009

How do you like the 909F3? I'm trying to decide between the F2 & F3 and can't make up my mind. I like the deeper face on the F3 bit I like the bigger (longer) head on the F2 and the fact it comes in 13.5 degree. I've hit both briefly and liked both but I'll do some more research once it warms a bit and the wind isn't blowing 30 mph so I can get an accurate ball flight between heads.

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Why does Titleist not offer the Proforce V2 shaft as a stock shaft anymore?

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