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Average swing weight and length on tour - Page 2

post #19 of 33

Old thread, but since it has come back up...

 

One thing to keep in mind is that static weight (the overall weight of a club) and the swing weight of a club are not necessarily related. For example, switching a 80 g shaft and 30 g grip to a 90 g shaft and 40 g grip (total increase of static weight of 20 g) will theoretically decrease the swing weight of a club (although the actual change may be immaterial depending on the mass of the club head). Conversely, adding 20 g of weight to the club head will drastically increase the swing weight. In this example, you have two clubs that have the same static weight (and therefore mass) but with a very different swing weight.

 

In the end, swing speed is the more crucial variable in calculating ball speed. The formula is vball = ((vclub*(1.67))/(1.0+(mball/mclub))) where vball = ball speed at impact, vclub = velocity of club head at impact, mball = mass of the golf ball, and mclub = mass of the club. To illustrate the point, a club with mass of 200g traveling at 100 mph will cause a ball weighing 45.9262 g to launch at 135.81 mph. An increase of just 2 mph in club head speed will result in an increase in ball speed of approximately 3 mph. To achieve the same increase without changing club head speed, the mass of the club would have to be increased by about 24 g. And at that point, you likely won't be able to keep the same club head speed. Of course this formula does not take into account certain physical properties of the ball and club, such as MOI in the club. However, all things held constant, the illustration still works, I think.

 

The whole point is that you have to find the static weight and swing weight that give you the highest possible ball speed.        

post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post
 

Old thread, but since it has come back up...

 

One thing to keep in mind is that static weight (the overall weight of a club) and the swing weight of a club are not necessarily related. For example, switching a 80 g shaft and 30 g grip to a 90 g shaft and 40 g grip (total increase of static weight of 20 g) will theoretically decrease the swing weight of a club (although the actual change may be immaterial depending on the mass of the club head). Conversely, adding 20 g of weight to the club head will drastically increase the swing weight. In this example, you have two clubs that have the same static weight (and therefore mass) but with a very different swing weight.

 

In the end, swing speed is the more crucial variable in calculating ball speed. The formula is vball = ((vclub*(1.67))/(1.0+(mball/mclub))) where vball = ball speed at impact, vclub = velocity of club head at impact, mball = mass of the golf ball, and mclub = mass of the club. To illustrate the point, a club with mass of 200g traveling at 100 mph will cause a ball weighing 45.9262 g to launch at 135.81 mph. An increase of just 2 mph in club head speed will result in an increase in ball speed of approximately 3 mph. To achieve the same increase without changing club head speed, the mass of the club would have to be increased by about 24 g. And at that point, you likely won't be able to keep the same club head speed. Of course this formula does not take into account certain physical properties of the ball and club, such as MOI in the club. However, all things held constant, the illustration still works, I think.

 

The whole point is that you have to find the static weight and swing weight that give you the highest possible ball speed.        

 

 

Yea that is just a collision formula. 

 

Smash Factor = (1+COR)/(1+(Mb/Mc))

 

Lets say you are able to swing a driver that is 200 grams clubhead weight. 

 

Vc = 100 mph

COR = 0.83

Mb = 46 grams

Mc = 200 grams

 

Smash Factor = 1.488

Max Vball = 148.8 mph

 

Lets drop that to 190 club head weight

 

Smash Factor = 1.473

Max Vball = 147.3 mph

 

So for you to hit the ball the same distance with the lighter club head, you'd need to increase the club head speed by just little over 1 mph.

 

I think the issue is this. Golfers are only swinging a 300 gram driver (total weight). 0.65-0.7 lb golf club. That isn't that heavy. I think majority of the time, people are able to swing the golf club with in a very close proximity to their max swing speed. Meaning dropping the clubhead 10 grams, you are not going to see much difference in swing speed. I am talking theoretical Max velocities capable. I am assuming these are perfect dead center hits on the clubface. Lighter clubs are harder to control. So in all retrospect, it is probably a wash. 

 

All driver heads are usually under 210 grams. That is the max by trial and error that golfers can swing a driver and not loose clubhead speed. Usually they range from 180-200 grams. 

 

As for OP, I believe most tour professions like heavier clubs. I am not talking heavier swing weights. They will get their clubs weight to fit the feel they want. Typically most golf professionals like heavy driver shafts (70+ grams), and heavy iron shafts (130+ grams). One it is for control, and two golfers are strong when it comes to swinging a golf club. Highest controllable swing speeds outside of long distance drivers. The stronger you are the more weight you need to feel the club. Ask a guy who lifts weights every day what he thinks is a light weight for a bicep curl. Then ask a newbie to lift the same weight. 

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

Yea that is just a collision formula. 

 

Smash Factor = (1+COR)/(1+(Mb/Mc))

 

Lets say you are able to swing a driver that is 200 grams clubhead weight. 

 

Vc = 100 mph

COR = 0.83

Mb = 46 grams

Mc = 200 grams

 

Smash Factor = 1.488

Max Vball = 148.8 mph

 

Lets drop that to 190 club head weight

 

Smash Factor = 1.473

Max Vball = 147.3 mph

 

So for you to hit the ball the same distance with the lighter club head, you'd need to increase the club head speed by just little over 1 mph.

 

Gotcha. It all comes back to finding the magical point where club head speed and club weight are optimized.  

 

To the OP, I've always preferred heavier clubs, both in static weight and swing weight. I don't know know the exact static weight of my irons, but they are definitely heavier than most stock irons with steel shaft, and are swing weighted to D6. I don't like the feel of really light irons, and lower swing weights seem harder for me to control. When I have time to get back into playing and practicing more this summer, I'm going to experiment with them a little to see if the results change any. 

post #22 of 33

I didn't see how old this thread was, but I noticed the tennis comparison and I agree, being a former tennis player. Heavy racquets hit the ball harder and it should be the same for golf clubs. Even more so. I have sensed, when hitting light drivers, the head stopping slightly at impact. In other words, losing speed. Heavier drivers don't give me that feel, just a power through the ball. Heavier irons, whether heavier in shaft or head will not give that slight slow down when hitting slightly fat, or just hitting the ball. It will transfer the force better. Now this is from a guy who knows absolutely nothing about science.

post #23 of 33

being a club maker i'll say this about swingweight -  It's absolutely personal. Swingweight is the weight you feel when you're swinging the club. It's the heft of the clubhead when you grasp the handle. The hammer analogy isn't really 100% accurate when talking in terms of swingweight. Heavy heads and such are good for high MOI as long as the weight is distributed properly which is kind of on the same lines as "hit a nail with a 25 oz hammer vs a 32 oz and you'll notice the difference.  If the weight is distributed properly, you won't necessarily notice it on the strike, but you'll notice it in the swing. Using the new materials these days you can make a lighter club overall while maintaining the same swing weight - which will really help you in the long run. It's about getting a club that gives you the proper tempo that you can deliver accurately to the ball, rather than building a sledgehammer that completely wears you out by the 8th hole. 

 

Just remember, if you're adding weight to your clubs in order to get the swingweight up, you might want to look into a firmer shaft. Your shaft will not become more flexible, but it will play more flexible as head weight increases. 

post #24 of 33
When did golf become a game of science & maths lol I wasn't good at either, but my driver speed is roughly about 80-120mph & I drive between 300-400 yards, I play on a mountain side course though, so have some help from the weather ;)
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathandavies View Post

When did golf become a game of science & maths lol I wasn't good at either, but my driver speed is roughly about 80-120mph & I drive between 300-400 yards, I play on a mountain side course though, so have some help from the weather ;)

that's a pretty healthy difference in swing speed, as well as distance. Methinks we might have a fisherman among us. :) 

post #26 of 33

I am mathematically baffled by all numbers. If I didn't have an accountant I'd be in a fed pen. But I started playing some heavy clubs,  irons, some kind of stiff, heavy three step shaft(Raven forged irons), loaned to me by a friend, and I'm hitting the ball way better. Almost always perfect contact.....no increase in distance just far better striking and accuracy. Knocked about five strokes of my handicap and looks like it's coming down more.

post #27 of 33
It's a damn shame I can't putt hahaha!! I think you can't go alone on weight & speed because you have to take into account swing style, wind speeds, elevation, timing, club make, model of ball, there's just loads of factors to consider!
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Club Nut View Post
 

being a club maker i'll say this about swingweight -  It's absolutely personal. Swingweight is the weight you feel when you're swinging the club. It's the heft of the clubhead when you grasp the handle. ... 

 

Swingweight on the pro tour would be hard to gauge for average, due to counterweighting and new varieties of lightweight shafts. Sergio Garcia backweighted (counterweighted) his driver and other clubs to try to lessen the swingweight.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2012-09/gwar-equipment-johnson-0903

 

I have some personal notes that Garcia (circa 2012) had driver and fairway wood at C7 swingweight due to counterweighting. But, I can't find the original source.

 

Many golfers are trying counterweighted putters, but I have no sense how well sales of the TourLock shaft inserts and the Secret Grip are doing. Anyone have data on this?

post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

 

Swingweight on the pro tour would be hard to gauge for average, due to counterweighting and new varieties of lightweight shafts. Sergio Garcia backweighted (counterweighted) his driver and other clubs to try to lessen the swingweight.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2012-09/gwar-equipment-johnson-0903

 

 

Titleist MB irons have a swing weight of D2. I think PGA Tour players would be in the D2 to D4 range for irons. The constants are the clubhead weight. You really can't change that much on a clubhead with out drastically changing how it performs. So the only thing you can change is the shaft. I don't see many tour players playing the lightweight shafts. 

 

As for drivers, I think that is where you can get a major difference in swing weight. 

 

I wonder since Sergio has such a huge lag in his golf swing that he feels the swing weight completely different. I am just wondering if a C7 swing weight allows him to be more consistent with his contact since he did it by adding weight to the butt end of the club. 

post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

... I wonder since Sergio has such a huge lag in his golf swing that he feels the swing weight completely different. I am just wondering if a C7 swing weight allows him to be more consistent with his contact since he did it by adding weight to the butt end of the club. 

 

I've experimented with counterweighting in a previous driver. A 4-gram insert for the club butt came with the Shotmaker shaft insert, which I reviewed in 2011.

 

I sensed the insert made it easier to drop the club into the slot. But, I'm not sure how much of an effect 4 grams really has.

post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Club Nut View Post
 

being a club maker i'll say this about swingweight -  It's absolutely personal.

I know this is an old thread, but I figured I'd weigh since I've recently done some personal experimenting with this. Bottom line, I agree with this quote, it is personal.

 

I know there can be a lot to say for the numbers and the science, but those numbers also need to account for who is swinging the club and how strong they are.

 

I just added 70g to the butt end of my driver and I love it. I have lost a little yardage, but I'd much rather his the ball 285 more consistently in the fairway than 295/300 in the rough or OB.

I am also 6'3", 230 so that much weight doesn't mean as much to me as it would for others. So, again...it's personal.

 

I also experimented with weights between 40-70g, went on the high end because I couldn't really feel much difference with the lighter weights. I haven't added any weight to my irons yet, but will when I get a new set. But with those I'll go closer to the 40g since I don't hit them as inconsistently as I did with my unweighted driver.

 

Would be interested in any feedback. Thanks.

post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian96 View Post
 

I know this is an old thread, but I figured I'd weigh since I've recently done some personal experimenting with this. Bottom line, I agree with this quote, it is personal.

 

I know there can be a lot to say for the numbers and the science, but those numbers also need to account for who is swinging the club and how strong they are.

 

I just added 70g to the butt end of my driver and I love it. I have lost a little yardage, but I'd much rather his the ball 285 more consistently in the fairway than 295/300 in the rough or OB.

I am also 6'3", 230 so that much weight doesn't mean as much to me as it would for others. So, again...it's personal.

 

I also experimented with weights between 40-70g, went on the high end because I couldn't really feel much difference with the lighter weights. I haven't added any weight to my irons yet, but will when I get a new set. But with those I'll go closer to the 40g since I don't hit them as inconsistently as I did with my unweighted driver.

 

Would be interested in any feedback. Thanks.


Since you added weight to the butt, which is held in your hands, don't know if you will suffer any loss in speed, but you may suffer increased ball speed and increased distance... suffer well.

post #33 of 33

One thing I forgot to add.

I did all this on my own, didn't buy any counterweighted products that are offered for $10-$20 per club. I only spent about $5 on materials. Would only spend another $5 to weight all my clubs if I want.

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