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What does the average weekend golfer shoot? - Page 15

post #253 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kw purp View Post
 

No one with half a brain will repeat these mistakes over and over. Sure you might try it once in awhile but if your consistently trying these shots your just an idiot

I see, anyone who plays aggressively is an idiot. Good to know.

post #254 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

You must not golf with a lot of people.

 

I know plenty of people who make these mistakes over, and over, and over.

 

<Grammar Nazi>

 

BTW, it's *you're* just an idiot.

 

</Grammar Nazi>

lol no very fair. Just message board type so I don't focus to heavily, but if I am accusing someone of being an idiot and have a grammatical error in the same sentence that is a fair criticism

 

There are plenty of idiots out there so fair point

post #255 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I see, anyone who plays aggressively is an idiot. Good to know.

Lol it's not playing aggressively if your a 22 HCP. It's being an idiot.

 

It's aggressive if your a scratch player and have talent.

post #256 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

This is what kw purp isn't understanding as "course management" being able to help lower hc. There are plenty of times when we know the "right shot" but still go for the lower percentage one or hit driver when it's not necessary. These things can easily add 5+ strokes a round. Examples would be:

 

1. 310 yd par 4. Most people hit driver when it's not necessary and brings all sorts of trouble into play if they hook or slice it.

 

2. A bad tee shot leaves you behind some trees, instead of playing the smart play and just get out we'll try to go for as long a shot as possible typically hitting the trees and coming down underneath or shooting back at us or some other unfortunate location.

3. *Dave's example* trying to force a carry over water that is questionable distance at best. *this one is extra bad if you have to drop behind the water again and hit over*

 

 

Just those 3 examples, if they happen on the same round, can add several strokes and that's just 3 holes.

Exactly and I like I said I was that guy, some days I'm still that guy and without fail that is when I card a double. It didn't take a remedial course in common sense for me to figure it out but my instructor had to beat me over the head for a few months for it to sink in. A big part of my problem as the long hitting guy was trying to over power the courses. I did some really stupid shit, like trying to hit 8i on 186 yd par 3's because I saw the pros doing it on TV. Eventually I figured out I was one of the better bad golfers out there and that golf would be more fun if I could drop my scores a bit.

 

If I had any advice to give, not that I'm qualified to give any, it would be give playing conservatively a try. It opened doors for me. Seriously I can look back and remember exactly where the milestones were and how it affected me. The first time I  shot a 39 at my former home course I'd only been playing a few months. It wasn't because I magically started hitting the ball better but because I was embarrassed to be playing with a better golfer and I took measures to not make myself look any worse than I was. I made a few lucky one putts but it was mostly because I dialed it back. I'm sure I shot a 50+ the next time out but it that was the first time I realized the power of thinking around the course. Within a few weeks I started see the 40's more often.

post #257 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kw purp View Post
 

lol no very fair. Just message board type so I don't focus to heavily, but if I am accusing someone of being an idiot and have a grammatical error in the same sentence that is a fair criticism

 

There are plenty of idiots out there so fair point

 

Haha, that's why I pointed it out.

 

The worst, is when you're pointing out someones grammar, and screw something up yourself. D'oh!

post #258 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

How many of those were one after another? The most OB I've ever seen is my home course, nearly every hole has some because it shares land with gas wells that aren't owned by the city but much of it not in play.
3 on one a4_sad.gif
Kept hitting into the brush on the side of a hill. The ball rolled down so it was not lost, but not in play. Lateral 1 stroke each time. a4_sad.gif

I overdrove a 206 yard par 3, off a cliff. Two times.

Underdrove a dogleg , ball rolled down a steep hill and caught on a rock, out of play.

11 strokes.
post #259 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I see, anyone who plays aggressively is an idiot. Good to know.

 

That's not what he's saying.

 

He's right...

 

If you know there's a 70% chance your drive is going OB on a 330 yard par 4, and you hit it anyway, you're an idiot.

 

Doesn't mean you can't do it, or shouldn't do it...golf should be fun...if whacking the hell out of the ball for that 30% chance of success is fun...by all means! But if you're trying to score well, yeah...that probably makes you an idiot. :-P

post #260 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kw purp View Post
 

Lol it's not playing aggressively if your a 22 HCP. It's being an idiot.

 

It's aggressive if your a scratch player and have talent.

Also good to know. The only people allowed to play aggressive *stupid shots* are scratch players that have talent, otherwise that person is an idiot.

post #261 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

Also good to know. The only people allowed to play aggressive *stupid shots* are scratch players that have talent, otherwise that person is an idiot.

You are allowed to. Doesn't mean you are not an idiot for doing it.

 

Do whatever you want, just don't use it as an excuse after the fact about your scoring. Sure, I could have been more conservative on that birdie putt and tapped in for par, but I didn't and I 3 putted. Sure, maybe you could play smarter and score better, but you don't. You are what your score says you are.

post #262 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

That's not what he's saying.

He's right...

If you know there's a 70% chance your drive is going OB on a 330 yard par 4, and you hit it anyway, you're an idiot.

Doesn't mean you can't do it, or shouldn't do it...golf should be fun...if whacking the hell out of the ball for that 30% chance of success is fun...by all means! But if you're trying to score well, yeah...that probably makes you an idiot. b2_tongue.gif
Sometimes you go out there for fun. If you play from the tips as a high handicap, expect to lose balls.

No biggie.

At least I know what it's like to play a tough course, and still scored 96 with 11 OB strokes.

Not all actions we take are logical. Takes the fun and challenge from it.
post #263 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kw purp View Post
 

You are allowed to. Doesn't mean you are not an idiot for doing it.

 

Do whatever you want, just don't use it as an excuse after the fact about your scoring. Sure, I could have been more conservative on that birdie putt and tapped in for par, but I didn't and I 3 putted. Sure, maybe you could play smarter and score better, but you don't. You are what your score says you are.

It is however, regardless of your assertions otherwise, the very reason some people's scores are higher than they should/could be. This directly influences the HC that person has.

 

Erik even listed in a post before that the average 18 hc player could become a single digit player if they worked on 3 things, one of which was course management and none of which were ball striking. That's not to say that ball striking isn't a very important part of becoming a good player, but ball striking is typically going to be one of the things that brings you down to scratch or low single digit caliber.

post #264 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

We get what your point is...now here's my point. It is not possible to hit a 7 iron as badly as you can hit a driver. A bad 7 iron might be chunked 50 yards, or get you in the rough (can go OB, but much much much less likely than a driver). A bad drive is OB. So choosing driver when you don't need to could be the difference between hitting 2 from 50 yards in front of the tee box, or hitting 3 from the tee box. There's 1.5 shots in one decision. Even for a bad golfer.

 

I think this is the most important part of the argument.  And I guess I come down on this side because this is how I lowered my own handicap.  I ate my pride and started playing shorter clubs off the tee and started scoring better - immediately.  The better I get, the more long clubs I play - which is that ballstriking element, and which is really important as well.  But it starts with doing your best to stay out of trouble - even if that means 160 yard tee shots.  I see what you are saying about hitting consistent 7's, but it worked for me.  The duffed 7's just didn't add up strokes the way the longer clubs did.  And I didn't see my GIR's go down at all.  I hit very few.  But I also get very few triples and way less doubles.

 

As far as being an idiot and all - I see plenty of players who prefer to play aggressively just because that is how they prefer to play - even though they know it will cost some strokes.  Blame it on Mickelson or the Tin Cup movie maybe.  But some would rather hit that one great shot than to score well.

post #265 of 321
OK, my 2 cents...to state the obvious, the reality is that high handicappers (like myself) need to work on BOTH our course management AND our ball striking skills if we truly want to improve our game/scores. As for which one is more important, I think that largely depends on the individual and where their particular game is at that time. I will have to say, though, that its only been until recently that I realized how better course management really does factor into the equation. Simply put, it makes absolute sense to me that you have to be able to hit the ball well (consistently) if you ever want to lower your score but it wasn't until I started playing the same course more frequently that I realized how being more familiar with the course itself (ie. knowing where the trouble was) was leading me to make better decisions (ie. go with 3W vs. driver, etc.) which, surprise, surprise, also led to better scoring at that course. Flip side to the argument, doesn't necessarily matter if I know I have to avoid the trouble on the right side if I can't control that wicked slice of mine anyway...GOD I LOVE THIS GAME!!!
post #266 of 321

I sometimes think people consider playing conservative being a total weenie. The reality it's just saving the power type of play for the holes where the consequences at worst is bogey if everything else remains the same after taking the chance and failing. It's worth it to play aggressively on the wide open par five that you can usually hit in two if the worst that can happen it you're dropping 3 nearly halfway up the fairway after hitting it into a hazard because you can still get close to the green chip on and 2 putt. It's not worth trying to hit your once a round 290+ bomb on the 315 yd par 4 with water down one side and a narrow fairway that slopes towards the hazard and 4 fairway bunkers on the left because it requires accuracy beyond your skill. Sure it can be done but it comes down to luck as much as anything. Is it fun to go for it, sure if you pull it off. It's not fun making a double or worse when you realize a 6i and 9i would have put you on or near the green with a good chance at par. I only hit 46% FIR why would I take the chance on a hole like this? I already know one of every two is going to miss and I miss right more than left which increases the risk because of the water. I save strokes by actually saving strokes not by making it up with hero play.

post #267 of 321
I'll repeat a phrase conservative strategy cocky swing. If you play conservative your ball striking will improve immediately.

Most high handicaps will hit irons up to the 7 well enough. This is why practice is so important. Practice your longer clubs but play golf to score.

You will gain confidence because mentally you will become stronger and more relaxed when you keep seeing the ball leave the club 150 yards almost everytime.

A lot if high handicaps never go beyong that level because they don't think about what they are trying to do and because they don't practice more than they play.

Most think they can turn up work on their swing hit impossible shots and score at the same time.

You have to treat yourself like a complete noob. No one decorates a house before its been built. Golf needs to be worked on from the ground up.

High handicaps haven't earned the right to expect a massive drive followed by a laser 9 iron into a green 6 ft from the flag.
You can attempt that but don't be surprised when it doesn't work out.

We have to come at it from another angle, avoiding big scores not trying to shoot for birdies. People can kid themselves all they want but all the pro's from childhood started hitting on par 3 courses or snuck onto a course with a wedge to play the short game because they didn't have the option if going long.

Patience reaps rewards it may be boring to some but it really is the best way to play golf especially for an amateur
post #268 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

I sometimes think people consider playing conservative being a total weenie. The reality it's just saving the power type of play for the holes where the consequences at worst is bogey if everything else remains the same after taking the chance and failing. It's worth it to play aggressively on the wide open par five that you can usually hit in two if the worst that can happen it you're dropping 3 nearly halfway up the fairway after hitting it into a hazard because you can still get close to the green chip on and 2 putt. It's not worth trying to hit your once a round 290+ bomb on the 315 yd par 4 with water down one side and a narrow fairway that slopes towards the hazard and 4 fairway bunkers on the left because it requires accuracy beyond your skill. Sure it can be done but it comes down to luck as much as anything. Is it fun to go for it, sure if you pull it off. It's not fun making a double or worse when you realize a 6i and 9i would have put you on or near the green with a good chance at par. I only hit 46% FIR why would I take the chance on a hole like this? I already know one of every two is going to miss and I miss right more than left which increases the risk because of the water. I save strokes by actually saving strokes not by making it up with hero play.

 



Exactly, for me half the battle was understanding where my personal game limitations were. I don't look at it as "avoiding" risk as much as "managing" it based on my current skil level. As my skill level improves and the margin for error in my game decreases, then I can take on more risk.
post #269 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

We get what your point is...now here's my point. It is not possible to hit a 7 iron as badly as you can hit a driver. A bad 7 iron might be chunked 50 yards, or get you in the rough (can go OB, but much much much less likely than a driver). A bad drive is OB. So choosing driver when you don't need to could be the difference between hitting 2 from 50 yards in front of the tee box, or hitting 3 from the tee box. There's 1.5 shots in one decision. Even for a bad golfer.

 

Instead of a driver, one typically pulls out a 3 wood, hybrid, or long iron - not 7i.    If you are a weekend golfer with 110+ strokes, you are likely to OB or put the tee shot in water with 3 wood, hybrid, or long irons, too.   Also, not all tees shots will end up in OB for 2 stroke loss.  Many will be in places where there is only 1 shot loss for all intents and purposes.   In those cases, the same high handicapper is better off dropping from a bad drive distance vs bad 3 iron distance.  

 

I am sure there are 110+ stroke players reading these post about course management and laughing their a-s-s off, going what course management????   :-P

 

And lastly, :beer:,   Chill, folks, it's almost Friday and the weekend is coming soon for us golfer.   Ahem.

post #270 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kw purp View Post
 

No offense, but if course management is accounting for 10 strokes in your game you are either completely wasted, high, or a moron. Course management might account for 1 stroke in an 18 hole round for me where I got a little too aggressive on a chip or a putt. 10 strokes? When I get in a bad position around the green its because I didnt hit my approach shot how I want (ball striking) which leads to bogey or double.

 

Also, you say your a 26 HCP, if so I am not buying that you can hit 2 reasonable 7 irons in a row consistently, also not buying you will consistently hit a 40-60 yard pitch on the green consistently. So lets assume you hit a good one off the tee and muff your 2nd in the fairway, then you hit your 3rd one well and are 30 yards from the green. You leave your 30 yard chip short or go long, chip on and 2-3 putt. You just got a 7 to an 8 on that hole.

 

No one who plays consistently hits 5 OB drives a round, thats like person who plays 5 times a year type of thing. So lets say you hit your drive 220 into the rough, you muff your second (or a short punch out from behind a tree) and hit a good 3rd to within short chipping range of the green. You chip on a 2-3 putt. You doubled to tripled. Do that several times and you saved several strokes over the conservative method. Sure you might hit some OB drives, but I bet you will muff some 7 iron tee shots 20 yards as well.

If I was to make as many generalizations as you do, I would say that someone making as many inaccurate, ignorant statements about golf could not be a 6 handicap golfer and may not even be more than an occasional golfer, but is more likely a bored individual who likes to troll internet forums.  However, assuming you are who you claim to be, you are nonetheless obviously very much lacking in knowledge about how most people play golf.  By your standards, 80+% of golfers must be idiots or morons.  I can assure you that golfers who keep the ball on or near the fairway nearly every shot are in a fairly small minority.  You have a very naive, black-or-white view of golf - there are those who think as you do and the rest are imbeciles in your very narrow world. The juvenile name-calling and extreme opinions make it seem as if you are compensating for some sort of inadequacies in your life.

 

The reason I've only broken 90 once isn't because I lack skills to hit various shots, it is because I am inconsistent, largely from lack of practice.  I've had a busy schedule this summer and have only had clubs in my hands once in the past month, at a range.  It's not unheard of for me to have pars or bogeys on half the holes in a round.  But I seldom go a round without a few blow-up holes that sky-rocket my scores.  I think a lot of golfers who are scoring in the 90-105 range are similar - I don't think I stand out as some sort of anomaly on the golf course.

 

One of the things I like the most about golf is that unlike just about any other sport, every so often, I can sometimes hit a shot that is so good that that I could beat a pro - if I took the ten best golfers in the world, dropped their balls from the same spot and gave them each 2 tries, my shot still might be the best of the lot.  A few years back I sky-ed a 5-W off the tee, landing it only 140 yards out in the fairway on a short par-4 with a 90* dog leg right with trees just blocking my view of the green.  I was about 190 yards out, the green was about the smallest I've ever seen, with a pretty steep hill banking the left side, and the "smart" play would have been to hit wedge, wedge.  But instead, I visualized a fade into the hill, banking the ball onto the green.  I loosened up my grip, opened up the clubface, aimed left of the green and swung my 4-iron.  The ball gently curved around the corner, bounced off the hill, and came to a rest less than 3 feet from the pin, exactly as I visualized it.  Even though I might have to hit ten more shots from that spot before I even got another ball on the green, I remember that shot.  I don't remember shots where I successfully laid up in front of a creek instead of going for the green.  I'd rather shoot a 99 but have two memorable holes than shoot a 91 but not remember a single shot the following week.  So even though it may cause some internet golf opinionboi  to call me an "idiot" or "moron," some of the time I'm still going to try to hit the 280 yard draw out to the middle of the fairway, the 205 yard 4-iron onto the green, shots I know I'm capable of hitting because I've hit them before (in the real world, on a golf course, not an internet exaggeration), even if I recognize that odds may be less than 50% that I'll nail that shot.

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