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What does the average weekend golfer shoot? - Page 17

post #289 of 327
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

My point was/is that course management is the easiest/quickest way to reduce scores.

 

KW's always seemed to be that only "idiots" would be able to improve their game by any significant margin by improving course management/decision making. 

 

Gotta side with Boop on this - at least for some.  A drastic change in course management made a pretty drastic change in my HC.  The ballstriking has gotten better, but that is more of a process and takes practice and time.  You don't have to get any better at the swing to improve your strategy.

 

I got that "idiot" feeling from him too.  And if it is true - there are a lot of idiots out there playing golf.  It takes some observation, study of the game, experience and will power to come to some good conclusions.  I think in another thread Bobby Jones is quoted as saying that he never learned anything from a match he won.  It helps to analyze what's going wrong to start doing it right.

post #290 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

I think this is the central question.  And a great one.  I ask myself this all the time - and kick myself for times I didn't do the "smart" thing.  And I can think of a few possible answers

 

1. Some would rather make that miracle shot or super-long drive than score well - you're a Go For It guy like the Tin Cup guy

2. Emotions get the better of you when in trouble.  The thought of double-bogey is killing you, so you try a miracle that puts you in even worse shape than you were in.  Now you get triple.

3. Despite knowing that it is a low percentage play - you just feel like it is your day

4. You haven't really analyzed the game enough - relative to your skill level - to realize that it is a low percentage play. You see players do things on TV or on the course and you feel you should play that type of game as well.  But you are way out over your skis to be trying that shot.

 

Just some guesses.  I'd love to hear some answers from some of you who feel you could shoot lower with better management.  Mine would probably be #2. I play a really conservative game of golf and feel I actually play really good course management.  I think it actually improves my HC as compared to actual golfing ability. But I can still try to get too fancy to avoid a big number.

 

Depending on the day/hole I could fall into any of the first 3. I've been able to limit it a lot more recently since I've started wanting to lower my scores overall. I used to focus on each hole's score and not the overall round score. I think this may be a deciding factor also. If all you care about is the score you make on each hole you are less likely to make the right decisions to lower your cumulative score. At least this was the case for me. I used to try to force a shot on the hole instead of realizing if I just played smart I and take the extra stroke this hole I can always make it up later.

post #291 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

No, I don't know why. Ignorance? Stupidity? Lack of willpower? Too much confidence?

 

There are plenty of reasons why someone continually does the stupid. The fact of the matter is that just as a swing change will lower your scores and CHANGE who you are as a golfer, so too is a mental change required and it too will change who you are as a golfer.

 

So just do it. You don't get to say "I'd be a better golfer if…" regardless of what follows. You are what you are. If you want to be something different, it takes more than hindsight. It takes change.

 

/toughlove

 

P.S. This may be your point all along, I don't know. I didn't read closely enough to know which side you were on - I just saw you and kw going on about this topic. Maybe this is your side. Maybe it's not. I don't know.

Co-sign 100% percent

post #292 of 327

Lack of consistent ball striking and course management are one in the same for some. The management part is developing the self control to not take the risks with shots they don't have. People in this thread have admitted they hit more bad drivers than good ones but still continue to pull the driver because they can't resist the urge. No doubt this type of golfer needs to work but in the interim scores can be lowered by making club selections based on what they can control better than what they can't. If I was that guy, and I was, I put the driver away and play my fairway from the tee. Eliminating the drive you slice off the planet 3x a side and turn that double into a bogey and you just shaved 6 strokes. Do that 3-4 times in 15 days and you post 3 scores that are in your ten best. Nobody is advising that is the solution just a way to play smarter golf with better scores as you continue to practice and meet with your instructor.

post #293 of 327

I think there was a threshold for each of us when course management begin to make sense.   When I was at handicap index (HI) from 50 to 25, I don't think I even know what course management was.   I grabbed the longest club and just hit it.   This would be my "idiot" golf phase and I think most weekend golfers were there before, or and still are.

 

After I read "How To Break 90 book (good one, look it up if you want to consistently break 90)'s, I begin to take course management more seriously but still wasn't good/discipline enough to execute on it half the time.   But right around the time as I went from 20 HI to 16, I became a better course management golfer.   Still, I will pull out a wrong club, hit a never practiced shot, trying to cut a dogleg with once in a 100 shot, ...  And I think that's the fun part of golf for most weekend golfers.  

post #294 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

Lack of consistent ball striking and course management are one in the same for some.

 

No, they aren't. Course management is the plan. Ball striking is the execution of that plan. You can be good at one and still suck at the other.

post #295 of 327

I'm an average weekend golfer, more often than not I just wanna shoot myself.:doh:

post #296 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

I think this is the central question.  And a great one.  I ask myself this all the time - and kick myself for times I didn't do the "smart" thing.  And I can think of a few possible answers

 

1. Some would rather make that miracle shot or super-long drive than score well - you're a Go For It guy like the Tin Cup guy

2. Emotions get the better of you when in trouble.  The thought of double-bogey is killing you, so you try a miracle that puts you in even worse shape than you were in.  Now you get triple.

3. Despite knowing that it is a low percentage play - you just feel like it is your day

4. You haven't really analyzed the game enough - relative to your skill level - to realize that it is a low percentage play. You see players do things on TV or on the course and you feel you should play that type of game as well.  But you are way out over your skis to be trying that shot.

 

Just some guesses.  I'd love to hear some answers from some of you who feel you could shoot lower with better management.  Mine would probably be #2. I play a really conservative game of golf and feel I actually play really good course management.  I think it actually improves my HC as compared to actual golfing ability. But I can still try to get too fancy to avoid a big number.

 

I think you have the jist of it.  You also reach a point where your skills are good enough that your thought process changes.  I now know that if I pitch out sideways from a fairway bunker because the ball is too close to the lip I can still make par.  A 20 hcp does not believe that and feels he/she must go for it for them to have a chance.

 

I can also approach a green from much further away with confidence.  If you are shooting near 100 or more honestly you are hoping you know where the ball is going but you don't truly know!  So I can shoot for the safe side of the green they are hoping for the general direction of the green.  There is also much more to consider/fear when you are a higher handicap.  I think it is part of the process.  

 

Lets consider a specific scenario and shot choices.

 

130 out, pin back, wind in your face water left bunkers surround the green, being below the hole is a must due to the slope of the green.  My thought is hit a low draw staying out of the wind as much as I can drop it short take my chances from there.

 

High handicap is going to hit a ballooning shot, not sure how far it will go, whatever spin they put on it is going to be exaggerated.  How much course management can they play?

 

I am that guy in the last couple years, I think I have a feel for it.

post #297 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

I'm an average weekend golfer, more often than not I just wanna shoot myself.:doh:

 

We should form a SandTrap group with suicide hotline and all.  ;-)

post #298 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

I'm an average weekend golfer, more often than not I just wanna shoot myself.:doh:

 

I hear that man, multiple times this year lol

post #299 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

No, they aren't. Course management is the plan. Ball striking is the execution of that plan. You can be good at one and still suck at the other.

But haven't you executed that plan if you make club choices based on what you can hit more consistently?

post #300 of 327

The weekend golfer is no way a 17 hdcp. I agree with several others who have submitted the "weekend golfer" shoots on average between 100 -110, IF they play within the Rules of Golf. The paperback version of the book cost me $2.00. 

post #301 of 327

An average weekend golfer definitely would not be hitting under 100 if they were scoring correctly. I play regularly (at least 2-3 times PW) and have been now for 2 years and have only started hitting consistent 90's. People that I know who just play on a saturday usually hit between 100-120, depending on the course.

post #302 of 327

I play maybe 3 or 4 times per week and I usually shoot in the high 90's. On a bad day I'll go over 100 (I won't say how far over) but I play to have fun and I never get too upset. 

My point is that I really do try to follow the rules to get an accurate reading of whether I'm improving or not. I have yet to break 90 but that is my current goal. 

Another point I'd like to make is that I feel I'm an average golfer and it amazes me when I golf with people who i absolutely know are worse than me but when we get to the clubhouse they claim they shot an 84! 

So i would say that maybe half the people I play with are better than me and I think I'm being generous when I say that. 

My one point of pride is that I've had two holes-in-one so far, so I've got that in my back pocket if someone gets on me about my game. 

Cheers, relax and keep on playing!

post #303 of 327

I play once a week (Sat morning) and shot anywhere from 92 to 115

 

Some weekends I can hit some really nice clean shots, Other weekends I am hacking around the course shanking everything in sight

 

Still love it though

post #304 of 327

I'm in my second year of playing approximately 1 or 2 rounds per week. I can shoot anywhere from low 90s to 115 depending on the course and the foibles of my game such as it is. I find there is a rather massive difference between the easier courses in my area and the tougher ones. That will have a lot to do with it.

 

My guys and I generally play pretty close to the rules. Our exception is that we allow one mulligan per nine. Generally, it gets used on tee shots that go O.O.B. So I suppose you can mentally add two to three strokes to whatever we score.

post #305 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GangGreen View Post

OK, my 2 cents...to state the obvious, the reality is that high handicappers (like myself) need to work on BOTH our course management AND our ball striking skills if we truly want to improve our game/scores. As for which one is more important, I think that largely depends on the individual and where their particular game is at that time. I will have to say, though, that its only been until recently that I realized how better course management really does factor into the equation. Simply put, it makes absolute sense to me that you have to be able to hit the ball well (consistently) if you ever want to lower your score but it wasn't until I started playing the same course more frequently that I realized how being more familiar with the course itself (ie. knowing where the trouble was) was leading me to make better decisions (ie. go with 3W vs. driver, etc.) which, surprise, surprise, also led to better scoring at that course. Flip side to the argument, doesn't necessarily matter if I know I have to avoid the trouble on the right side if I can't control that wicked slice of mine anyway...GOD I LOVE THIS GAME!!!

The problem is... how to learn better ballstriking? At least for me as a high handicapper.

 

In all other sports I play badminton tennis floorball weightlifting etc, the instructor actually instructs me, he tells me what to do, he tells me how to do it. Like tennis for example, it's simple enough. Teach the student. You know when you've hit a good shot, and when you've hit a bad shot.

 

 

I took frigging golf lessons last week. (50e /h) The  guy didn't fix my slice. I told the instructor about my flightscope numbers, out-to-in path and open clubface. I did everything in my power to help him, teach me.

 

I told the instructor that I'm a raw beginner at golf, only started last autumn short season with a couple golf rounds. One lession prior to this. And I told him all the details about my swing and shots etc...

 

And I tried his suggestions for my swing (he only had one suggestion, hit the ball harder with the right hand like Ben Hogan talked about), but I still slice the ball.

 

I still slice from midirons to driver, all clubs except wedges and putter.

 

I was trying out different setup for my driver, alone at the range. Ball outside my left foot, and slightly closed stance, this is the only way I can hit straighter balls with my driver it seems. (but I would like to learn in-to-out path, since it seemingly gives more powerful shots than my current out-to-in path)

 

Do you guys suggest that I should play conservatively and teeoff with a pitching wedge? Use only pitching wedge and putter on par5?

post #306 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by late347 View Post
 

The problem is... how to learn better ballstriking? At least for me as a high handicapper.

 

In all other sports I play badminton tennis floorball weightlifting etc, the instructor actually instructs me, he tells me what to do, he tells me how to do it. Like tennis for example, it's simple enough. Teach the student. You know when you've hit a good shot, and when you've hit a bad shot.

 

 

I took frigging golf lessons last week. (50e /h) The  guy didn't fix my slice. I told the instructor about my flightscope numbers, out-to-in path and open clubface. I did everything in my power to help him, teach me.

 

I told the instructor that I'm a raw beginner at golf, only started last autumn short season with a couple golf rounds. One lession prior to this. And I told him all the details about my swing and shots etc...

 

And I tried his suggestions for my swing (he only had one suggestion, hit the ball harder with the right hand like Ben Hogan talked about), but I still slice the ball.

 

I still slice from midirons to driver, all clubs except wedges and putter.

 

I was trying out different setup for my driver, alone at the range. Ball outside my left foot, and slightly closed stance, this is the only way I can hit straighter balls with my driver it seems. (but I would like to learn in-to-out path, since it seemingly gives more powerful shots than my current out-to-in path)

 

Do you guys suggest that I should play conservatively and teeoff with a pitching wedge? Use only pitching wedge and putter on par5?


Sounds like you just got a bad instructor. I've taken 3 lessons in the past and every lesson really helped my game (3 different instructors). I used to have a terrible hook and the instructor fixed my hook after only one lesson. Haven't hooked it since.

 

I'd recommend trying a different instructor. Maybe you'll haven better luck next time.

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