Crusty Old Instructor vs. Modern Video Technology

Some background. After hacking at a golf ball for 20+ years, I finally broke down and started taking lessons almost two years ago. At the time I was shooting around 110. If I broke 100, I had a great day. I took lessons from one of our local facilities for about a year. Say 12 lessons total. They have a very nice setup. Modern video teaching and you actually hit out to a driving range. Great experience and I really enjoyed it. I've dropped around 20 strokes to shoot in the low 90's while occasionally getting into the 80's. My biggest issue has been consistency, especially with my irons.

So the other day I stop by a range I had never been to on the way home to start knocking off some of the long winter rust. This range is akin to the one in Tin Cup. Pretty much a shack. They do have lots of yardage markers on the range which is nice. They also have a pretty decent inventory of clubs.

I set up on one of the mats and start to hit some. The shanks have settled in and I'm not hitting well. I notice a guy who I assume is the owner sit down on the bench behind me. He reminds me of the father from Orange County Choppers with the voice of Billy Bob Thorton's character in Sling Blade. I shank a couple more balls and he chimes in to set up two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one. He said I've got the ball too far from me and I'm reaching for it. I try the drill and hit a couple of nice shots. He then says my first motion should be started with my left shoulder. Now I know all about the one piece take away but I've always tried to start this with my hands. I try it and hit about 15 of my best iron shots in a row.

Now I'm normally not up for strangers giving swing tips but I say to the guy "I'll bite. Do you teach?". Turns out the guy is indeed the owner but is also a PGA teaching pro. Super nice guy. I was impressed with the faults he could see in my swing without using any type of video. You could tell he had a very trained eye. So I'm set to take four lessons from him.

So my point of this whole diatribe is even with all the modern technology, some of these old teaching pros can still give quality lessons. I suppose the two main things to look for in any teacher is 1.) do the know their stuff and 2.) can they communicate it to you in a meaningful way.

Go with what works for you... it is quite common to have more than one instructor in a lifetime of golf.

As for the modern vs. traditional coaching... if I had to choose between having a lesson from Harvey Penick and David Leadbetter/Hank Haney, etc... I would choose Harvey.

I think you have hit on a key point here. The infusion of technology into golf has been a placebo with regards to fixing "sick" swings. And "sick" mental approaches to the game.

No matter how much technology, be it game improvement clubs or video analysis until you find a way to communicate with them that gets them thinking about golf and the golf swing from the right perspective you will never see a great improvement.

My current instructor takes video of the entire lesson but we rarely look at it. If I am understanding the concept and getting in the positions he is describing then we just move forward.

If I have trouble with a body position it is nice to take a short pause and look at the video to better visualize what I am doing (physically) compared to what I think I am doing (mental image). Otherwise, I prefer just working it out without any additional tech.

-E

I ahve a video camera at home and record my swing record my swing often. The biggest benefit I have from it is often what I think I'm doing and what I'm really doing are two different things. However if no one ever gives a real udnerstandable way to change, it doesn't matter what you know about your swing.

IMO, when taking a lesson, a player will advance quicker if he understands the golf swing. It will help as you work with the pro as he tries to improve your ball striking.

Video helps if you already have an understanding of what to look for as he explains what you are doing.

I have been reading a lot about the golf swing this winter and learned so much.

Wished I had done this 5 years ago.

If you are mechanically inclined, learn the TGM (The Golfing Machine) fundamentals by going to Croker Golf or one of the other sites. You can also go to Mac O'Grady's MORAD school.

I hope many people reply to this thread; I am curious what others have experienced.

I cannot compare my Mr. Crust to the modern pro, because I've never had a lesson from anyone else. I can tell you that taking lessons from Mr. Crust for the last few years has been one of the richest experiences of my life. Like master and apprentice, choreographer and dancer, together we are crafting my golf swing.

It is amazing how he can see the details of a swing that is happening so quickly. The + to 5 caps come to him for a tuneup when they don't know what has gone wrong. He says he tried video in the 90's, and it wasn't helpful to people. I doubt he'll change, but I have just purchased a pocket video. I will show him some footage just to see if it gets him talking.

I don't think he believes there is another person left alive who understands the golf swing as well as he, including all the big names. If someone gives him the freedom, in the form of regular lessons, there is only one swing he is going to teach. It's the one he learned from working for and playing with Jimmy Demaret and the consequent exposure to Ben Hogan, and years of getting what he saw in them into his own swing. There will be adjustments for the individual, and there is the acknowledgment that not everyone is athletically capable of learning it, but he believes there is a set of swing fundamentals that is superior to others.

I could tell colorful stories, but I've given you the flavor. What a gift he has been to me.

I don't have a swing coach, however, there is an old guy that goes to the driving range I use. He is there everyday because in his words, he has no where else to go.

He loves to watch me hit balls. And when I start to go bad, he can see things that I am doing differently than normal. He is a great guy that has helped me a lot.

I guess it's because he has seen me swing so many times he can see something immediately.

Just my opinion but:

1. Video is meant to support the golfer, not teach the golfer.
2. Bad teachers are bad with video and bad without it.
3. Good teachers are good without video but can be outstanding with it.
4. Leadbetter fits into section 2.
5. Hogan with video would have been scary good.

So I guess my point is that I wouldn't judge a teacher by if they use video or not but whether they know their stuff or not. If they know their stuff AND they use video then that is a teacher that is worth working with. But that's just my opinion.

I agree. You can't teach someone to cook if they don't know what items are used in cooking and I don't believe you can teach someone to swing a golf club unless they understand what body parts do what in the golf swing. Maybe that's a bad analogy but it's the first thing that came to mind.

I don't know how many times I've watched video of Hogan, Nicklaus, Tiger, etc. swing and meticulously watching it and seeing what every part in the body does. It has made a huge difference in my understanding of how to golf.

I got a crusty old instructor. And he really is a crusty old guy, lol. But he is the only instructor ive ever had and nobody knows my swing better than him. He can straighten me out in less than 10 mintues most of the time. We've never used any video, mirrors, or anything that shows me what my swing looks like in the lessons. Your eyes can decive you. He has taught me to swing by feel and repetition. The method has worked well for me.

I think you are correct that technology will not help the bad teacher, but I would disagree that technology necessarily makes a good teacher better.

I think it is mostly a function of the learning style of the student. Everyone learns in a different manner, some more attuned to the technical aspects while others, not so much. Not every teacher or teaching method is right for every student. Just my opinion, of course!

I agree with the point that was made about video being a tool. Instructors use all kinds of tools to help teach proper mechanics. Video is useful because it enables you to see what you are doing from from any angle, but at some point you have to be able to put aside all tools and go out on the course and hit the ball.

i believe in a good combo of both... someone that knows what theyre doing and can use technology as a tool to help things be more understandable...
what i felt like i was doing... and what the video actually showed... were 2 very different things... if i didnt take a look at the vid of my swing... i think id get frustrated by saying... thats what im doing... the vid doesnt lie... results dont lie either... i felt like i was doing everything that was asked of me but why the hell was i pushing the whole day... why was i topping when my knees were bent the whole time... well the vid shows something much different...
my brothers have been to some really high tech lessons... and a few of them they did not like due to the teachers being too scripted... theyve since found a really good combo of an excellent teacher that uses technology and they both have grown by leaps and bounds