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Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip - Page 2

post #19 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by mdouet View Post
Well with a strong grip I'm hitting them straight (right at the pin) vs way right with a neutral grip. I'm going to stick to my strong grip for a week and if my swing starts to go south again I'll switch back to the neutral grip and grind it out and try to figure out what I'm doing wrong in my swing. I'd prefer to fix it in my grip because that's something I can see and control much easier than my swing path.
I don't understand this entire thread, and the above post. If you are hitting them straight with a strong grip, or as you said "right at the pin", then why are you taking lessons?

If you are hitting it "right at the pin" with this grip, then you should be lower than a 36. Are you suffering from lack of distance? Short game?

I guess I am asking what is the main problem you had with this strong grip that made you go take a lesson?
post #20 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

there's no right answer unfortunately. i believe most coaches and golf books advocate a neutral grip. do what feels most comfortable and what works best for you. as mentioned, swing changes take commitment and time. but if you are short on time, then some shortcuts are required but do bear in mind that they may be detrimental in the overall scheme of things.

also talk it over with your coach. perhaps ask him why he's switched you to a neutral grip and what other changes he's proposing as a result of that. perhaps he could do the same but with a slightly stronger grip, that feels more comfortable to you.

i've gone from neutral to strong and back to neutral now.
post #21 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

My experience most teachers go through learning dumbness they try on guys who are novis golfers to experiment. This is common amoung younger or newer teachers who are learning. I won't go to a teacher that does not have at least a few high profile players amature or professional. They might be able to get lucky with one player who is gifted but not 3, that kind of is my standard to taking lessons from someone. As for the grip being strong and wrong, tell David Duval, Paul Azinger or Lee Trevino that...LoL It ain't right unless it feels comfortable...!
post #22 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by Golfing View Post
My experience most teachers go through learning dumbness they try on guys who are novis golfers to experiment. This is common amoung younger or newer teachers who are learning. I won't go to a teacher that does not have at least a few high profile players amature or professional. They might be able to get lucky with one player who is gifted but not 3, that kind of is my standard to taking lessons from someone. As for the grip being strong and wrong, tell David Duval, Paul Azinger or Lee Trevino that...LoL It ain't right unless it feels comfortable...!
Dude, if that were the case, no one would ever make a swing change, and we'd all be shooting much higher. After a change, especially something as key and as noticable as a different grip, there is an adjustment period where things normally get worse before they get better, and everything feels out of place. It's part of making adjustments. If I were to follow that statement, I'd address the ball with the club on my shoulder like a baseball bat, because that was what was comfortable for me when I started playing golf. I'd love to see the results of that!
post #23 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by ControlJunkie View Post
Dude, if that were the case, no one would ever make a swing change, and we'd all be shooting much higher. After a change, especially something as key and as noticable as a different grip, there is an adjustment period where things normally get worse before they get better, and everything feels out of place. It's part of making adjustments. If I were to follow that statement, I'd address the ball with the club on my shoulder like a baseball bat, because that was what was comfortable for me when I started playing golf. I'd love to see the results of that!
I guess thats why Ryan Moore basicly put his club up like a baseball bat then! It felt comfortable for him to make the change he needed. Just because some guy tells you you need to change your grip does not mean he is right. Like I said Azinger, Duval, Trevino they all had strong grips so did they need to change? Why does that teacher want to change the grip? Is there a swing flaw he is trying to band-aid, or does he need to be focusing on what feels more comfortable to the player. I have worked with some big name teachers and they would never just saw "Okay we need to change the grip because its strong"....
post #24 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by Golfing View Post
I guess thats why Ryan Moore basicly put his club up like a baseball bat then! It felt comfortable for him to make the change he needed. Just because some guy tells you you need to change your grip does not mean he is right. Like I said Azinger, Duval, Trevino they all had strong grips so did they need to change? Why does that teacher want to change the grip? Is there a swing flaw he is trying to band-aid, or does he need to be focusing on what feels more comfortable to the player. I have worked with some big name teachers and they would never just saw "Okay we need to change the grip because its strong"....
First off, you completely missed the point. My point is that most all changes anyone makes is going to be uncomfortable for a little while. A person unwilling to make a change and be patient with the adjustment period is someone who doesnt really want to get better.

Second, for every player you name with an overly strong grip, I can name ten with a neutral grip. Tiger, Jack, Arnie, the list keeps going on....

Third, how do you know that the teacher isn't setting him up with a proper neutral grip to set up a good foundation for more changes in his next session. It's completely impossible to fix any one person's swing in a single session. If I were the teacher, that would be the first thing I'd check, because the grip is the connection with the club, and you have to build from there. To say that teaching someone a proper grip is a band-aid may be one of the most incorrect statements I've ever read.

Normally, it's the overly strong grip that is the band-aid. That doesnt mean some people cant pull it off and be successful with it, but there IS compensation for it somewhere else in the swing. There is always a trade off somewhere. Kenny Perry is a prime example of this. He has a hitch in his swing as a result of a previous injury, but he is able to get into the correct position on his downswing and on impact. That doesnt make his swing the "ideal swing" though.

And I dont think any teacher would ever say "lets change the grip just because it's strong", normally, they're saying to change the grip to help get the club face into a more consistent position, and to work other swing flaws out after. I equate it to setting a good foundation for a house.
post #25 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by ControlJunkie View Post
First off, you completely missed the point. My point is that most all changes anyone makes is going to be uncomfortable for a little while. A person unwilling to make a change and be patient with the adjustment period is someone who doesnt really want to get better.

Second, for every player you name with an overly strong grip, I can name ten with a neutral grip. Tiger, Jack, Arnie, the list keeps going on....

Third, how do you know that the teacher isn't setting him up with a proper neutral grip to set up a good foundation for more changes in his next session. It's completely impossible to fix any one person's swing in a single session. If I were the teacher, that would be the first thing I'd check, because the grip is the connection with the club, and you have to build from there. To say that teaching someone a proper grip is a band-aid may be one of the most incorrect statements I've ever read.

Normally, it's the overly strong grip that is the band-aid. That doesnt mean some people cant pull it off and be successful with it, but there IS compensation for it somewhere else in the swing. There is always a trade off somewhere. Kenny Perry is a prime example of this. He has a hitch in his swing as a result of a previous injury, but he is able to get into the correct position on his downswing and on impact. That doesnt make his swing the "ideal swing" though.

And I dont think any teacher would ever say "lets change the grip just because it's strong", normally, they're saying to change the grip to help get the club face into a more consistent position, and to work other swing flaws out after. I equate it to setting a good foundation for a house.
I would agree with most of that, but the OP said the instructor changed his grip and he hit it much better with a stronger grip rather than the new grip. Now what we don't know here is, was he happy with his game before and was just taking a lesson, or was he not happy drawing the ball and wanted to correct that problem. In a perfect golf swing there is only one way to make the ball draw and that is with a closed toe coming through impact, in which case would require a grip that is weaker. How many perfect golf swings have your ever seen though?
post #26 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

^none but it's nice to try to get as close as possible right? I also went through the grip thing. It turns into a fantastic learning experience after oh,100 or so rounds. If you force someone to swing with a neutral grip its one less compensation used to fix a faulty swing.

You have to correct faults just to make it work. If you swing over the top you can almost never hit a straight shot with a neutral grip. If you cup you wrist or have an open club face on the takeaway and follow through you can almost never hit a straight shot with a neutral grip. If you don't complete a full shoulder turn *which can be difficult* and have limp arms for the first 3/4 of the downswing to drop on plane you can almost never hit a straight shot with a neutral grip.

IMO using a nuetral grip forces you to fix these swing faults and I can understand why any teacher that gave a #@$@ would want to start there.

Bottom line I can take a really strong grip and hit draws, hooks and straight shots at my desired target with great success. With a neutral grip everything else also has to come together or you hit it everywhere. Golf gets really hard when you start trying to do things 'correctly' As if golf isn't hard enough...
post #27 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by Williamevanl View Post

IMO using a nuetral grip forces you to fix these swing faults and I can understand why any teacher that gave a #@$@ would want to start there.
Exactly my point!

To Golfing - If you re-read his original post carefully, he says that after the grip change, he was getting good results at first, and then he started having problems with a push/slice. That tells me he was on the right path, and that some things were falling into place. Then things started to go south. As stated by myself and many others, some things take time to get grooved and burnt into muscle memory. Since the results were positive at first, and then went south, I'd be more inclined to go back to the coach and then work on wrist action, hip turn, release, etc. That's how you progress and learn a swing that will serve you well for a long time.
post #28 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by ControlJunkie View Post
Exactly my point!

To Golfing - If you re-read his original post carefully, he says that after the grip change, he was getting good results at first, and then he started having problems with a push/slice. That tells me he was on the right path, and that some things were falling into place. Then things started to go south. As stated by myself and many others, some things take time to get grooved and burnt into muscle memory. Since the results were positive at first, and then went south, I'd be more inclined to go back to the coach and then work on wrist action, hip turn, release, etc. That's how you progress and learn a swing that will serve you well for a long time.

I read it! My point is that you don't have to always change the grip to play golf. Almost every guy on the senior tour has a unique back swing but they all get to the same impact positions, grip was established first then they learn to swing it natural in a way that fits there body, and feel. Anyone that stives for the perfect swing is doomed to fail.
post #29 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

I've struggled with a faulty grip ever since I started playing. Last season, the majority of my shots were weak pushes that went dead right.

Originally, I had a really weak grip (1 1/2 knuckles + thumb down the shaft) then went to a strong grip (3 knuckles showing + V pointing to right shoulder). Incredibly, I'm now pulling shots. . . but that's another story.

Here's a video that truly helped. All the best.

post #30 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by clonewars222 View Post
. . .If you're using a neutral grip and hitting right, try to rotate your wrists through the ball so that you are hitting it solid. That's what I'm doing with my irons. . .

I had that same problem with a weak grip. Could never turn the hands over, it was utterly impossible for me due the the grip. I Just never had the hands that could save it from going right. Now I have to stop hitting the occasional over-the-top pull hook. Yikes.
post #31 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

My first thought is to go back to the pro and ask him a few questions:

1) why did the pro change your grip so dramatically from strong to neutral?
2) explain the frustration you are going through
3) ask him if you should stick with the neutral grip or go back to the strong grip.

I have only taken 3 lessons in my 24 years of golfing and know that lesson is the fastest way to improve with some work on your part. many time as a student you really do not know what a pro is trying to do in the long run for you as a student unless you ask them.

you will definitely know after asking the pros what his intentions were when he switch your grip and then you can decide what course of action to take.

I personally always was fighting a hook draw and have recently discovered that my right hands was in the wrong position and causing much of the draw to hooking so I recently changed my right hand position and have notice a big difference in my consistency and shot 4 over in my last round, 2 over a side.
post #32 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by Golfing View Post
I read it! My point is that you don't have to always change the grip to play golf. Almost every guy on the senior tour has a unique back swing but they all get to the same impact positions, grip was established first then they learn to swing it natural in a way that fits there body, and feel. Anyone that stives for the perfect swing is doomed to fail.
Another totally ignorant comment. You're on a roll! Do you really think that? You're telling me that Tiger, Phil, or any other great doesnt strive to be perfect, to get a perfect swing, or to hit a perfect shot? Sure, it's unattainable, but sir, that's what separates the legends from the greats. In their mind, perfect is an achievable goal. Realistically, will it ever happen? No, but it's thinking that perfect is achievable is what puts the legends on a higher level. An ameteur with the same mindset will more than likely will never make it to the Tour, but will certainly drive him to be better than his competition and constantly improve.

I'm not trying to be all philosophical here, and I'm really not trying to dog you out or anything, but I really dont think your way of thinking lends itself to making real improvements. I realize that everyone plays the game for different reasons, and some people like to get out and chase a few balls here and there, and arent really worried about their score. I, on the other hand, have always been overly competitive, and I always want to better myself and my game. I may fail at achieving the perfect swing (which goes hand in hand with hitting the perfect shot), but on the flip side, having that goal will surely help me succeed in beating my competition. The day I stop striving for that is the day I quit the game and sell the clubs.
post #33 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by ControlJunkie View Post
Another totally ignorant comment. You're on a roll! Do you really think that? You're telling me that Tiger, Phil, or any other great doesnt strive to be perfect, to get a perfect swing, or to hit a perfect shot? Sure, it's unattainable, but sir, that's what separates the legends from the greats. In their mind, perfect is an achievable goal. Realistically, will it ever happen? No, but it's thinking that perfect is achievable is what puts the legends on a higher level. An ameteur with the same mindset will more than likely will never make it to the Tour, but will certainly drive him to be better than his competition and constantly improve.

I'm not trying to be all philosophical here, and I'm really not trying to dog you out or anything, but I really dont think your way of thinking lends itself to making real improvements. I realize that everyone plays the game for different reasons, and some people like to get out and chase a few balls here and there, and arent really worried about their score. I, on the other hand, have always been overly competitive, and I always want to better myself and my game. I may fail at achieving the perfect swing (which goes hand in hand with hitting the perfect shot), but on the flip side, having that goal will surely help me succeed in beating my competition. The day I stop striving for that is the day I quit the game and sell the clubs.

Best of luck to you! I have seen to many guys out on tours that were great players and turned into perfectionist, and are no longer in tournament golf. Many of them say they should have just played with what they had but thought they needed the best to be the best. Tiger does not strive for perfection Tiger strives for repeatabilty. Text book Perfect moves and The most beautiful swing ain't gonna get you out on tour, its gonna make you a head case. Like I said best of luck to you let us all know how that works out!

There are so many guys on these forums who thought they were good enought to play but can't even get throught a pre qualifier for the PGA Tour. Then they come on forums and are giving lessons out left and right to people about how they should do it when they might be a decent player around there area, but have not accomplished jack on any tour or in the teaching world with a top amature or professional, Please!
post #34 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by Golfing View Post
Best of luck to you! I have seen to many guys out on tours that were great players and turned into perfectionist, and are no longer in tournament golf. Many of them say they should have just played with what they had but thought they needed the best to be the best. Tiger does not strive for perfection Tiger strives for repeatabilty. Text book Perfect moves and The most beautiful swing ain't gonna get you out on tour, its gonna make you a head case. Like I said best of luck to you let us all know how that works out!

There are so many guys on these forums who thought they were good enought to play but can't even get throught a pre qualifier for the PGA Tour. Then they come on forums and are giving lessons out left and right to people about how they should do it when they might be a decent player around there area, but have not accomplished jack on any tour or in the teaching world with a top amature or professional, Please!
Again, your response is flawed. To think that someone at the level he plays at doesnt strive for perfection is well misguided. Perfection and repeatability are not exclusively independent of one another.

I know I'm not good enough to play on Tour, but in my mind, I do know fundamentals. I think I speak for most anyone who has ever picked up a club when I say that the body does not always do what the mind says to. The OP explained his situation, asked for people's opinion on his instructor's advice on a neutral grip, and whether that warranted looking for a new instructor. It doesnt take Haney, Harmon, or Ledbetter to tell you that a neutral grip is normally preferred and that changes take time, patience, and a normally, a rough adjustment period. That's not board members giving lessons, that's people that know the fundamentals, reciting what's been taught to them. It's also people that know the trials of making adjustments and how frustrating it can be for a little while.

By your logic, tour success is a prerequisite for giving advice and telling someone the pro's and con's of various aspects of their swing. If that's the case, it's time to shut this place down, or at least make it such an exclusive membership, that very few really benefit from it. If tour success was a pre-requisite for helping people with their game, how is it that Haney, Harmon, Ledbetter, and Pelz dont have 10x the number of championships than Tiger, Jack, and Palmer have? I can guarantee you, there are excellent instructors everywhere that have never been nor taught a top amateur or pro golfer.

Again, I get the impression that you're taking views that dont align with your own far too personally. The point of all of this is not an attack against you, though I it seems you're taking it that way. The bottom line is that the goal is to give the best advice that we can on his questions about what his instructor was changing. Don't let your ego or your enjoyment of disagreement get in the way of someone else trying to progress and get better results from their swing.
post #35 of 71
Thread Starter 

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

Originally Posted by SpacklersEdge View Post
I don't understand this entire thread, and the above post. If you are hitting them straight with a strong grip, or as you said "right at the pin", then why are you taking lessons?

If you are hitting it "right at the pin" with this grip, then you should be lower than a 36. Are you suffering from lack of distance? Short game?

I guess I am asking what is the main problem you had with this strong grip that made you go take a lesson?
Like I said I'm just getting back from a year layoff and my swing was totally shot when I got back into it, so I got lessons. I have been struggling since then to get accustomed to a neutral grip but it just keeps getting worse and worse, and now that I switch back to my comfortable strong grip (that I've used since I started playing golf) I am hitting it straight again.
post #36 of 71

Re: Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

If you hit the ball straight and well then great. For me a strong grip was very confortable but hitting hooks and no greens weren't. When I changed I felt like the club was going to fly out of my hand. But it didn't and don't regret the change.
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