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How many clubs... really


FHopper
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I do not have an established handicap; never bothered in 50 years of playing golf. In the last week two additional clubs have entered my bag, a 5 wood and a 6 iron, later today I am picking up a 7 wood. That will make 17 clubs. My friend says that I cannot even submit scores now because I have too many clubs. Heck I am thinking of adding a 4 iron too. Recreationally it seems more fun to have'm all. The word "set" should mean something; that you need to get the complete set!

So is he right? Am I doomed to wander forever; indexless?

How many clubs do you carry when you are playing for fun? I hear Arnold needs two bags for his.

Current Bag
Ogio Synchro cart
'07 Burner Driver, 3 Fairway, and Rescue 5
Early Titelist Cavities
200 56, Spin milled 60 , Rossa  Suzuka

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max allowed is 14.

my arsenal
Driver: Nike Machspeed 9.5
5 Wood: Burner 08
4 Hybrid: Burner 08
Irons: Mizuno JPX 800 ProSand: Cleveland CG-15Putter: Bettinardi BC-2  

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Let's be a little more clear. From the Rules of Golf:

4-4. Maximum of 14 Clubs
# a. Selection and Addition of Clubs
The player must not start a stipulated round with more than 14 clubs. He is limited to the clubs thus selected for that round, except that if he started with fewer than 14 clubs, he may add any number, provided his total number does not exceed 14.

The addition of a club or clubs must not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7) and the player must not add or borrow any club selected for play by any other person playing on the course.

# b. Partners May Share Clubs
Partners may share clubs, provided that the total number of clubs carried by the partners so sharing does not exceed 14.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 4-4a or b, REGARDLESS OF NUMBER OF EXCESS CLUBS CARRIED:

* Match play — At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred; maximum deduction per round: Two holes.
* Stroke play — Two strokes for each hole at which any breach occurred; maximum penalty per round: Four strokes.
* Bogey and par competitions — See Note 1 to Rule 32-1a.
* Stableford competitions — See Note 1 to Rule 32-1b.

# c. Excess Club Declared Out of Play
Any club or clubs carried or used in breach of Rule 4-3a(iii) or Rule 4-4 must be declared out of play by the player to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play immediately upon discovery that a breach has occurred. The player must not use the club or clubs for the remainder of the stipulated round.

PENALTY FOR BREAK OF RULE 4-4c: Disqualification.


My read on this - It's against the rules to play with more than 14 clubs. HOWEVER, notice that the penalty for playing with more than 14 is NOT as severe as I would have thought. Stroke play - penalty is up to 4 strokes, Match play - penalty is loss of up to 2 holes.

If you're willing to adjust your scores and take these penalties into account , my read says "carry as many club as you like."

HiBore 10.5 driver
GT-500 3- and 5-woods
Bazooka JMax 4 Iron Wood
Big Bertha 2008 irons (4 and 5 i-brids, 6i-9i,PW)
Tom Watson 56 SW Two-Ball putter

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If you're willing to adjust your scores and take these penalties into account

Yes, but that basically means you declare them out of play after your first stroke. That means deciding at the first hole which clubs you are going to use that day. If you later use an out-of-play club in the round, you are disqualified. So why not save the penalty strokes by deciding which clubs are out of play before the first stroke and just leaving those clubs in the trunk for the round?

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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I'm carrying 14 at the moment, but have a 5 wood that stays in the car for now. I have two 3 woods, 15° and 13°, but as soon as I decide which to keep, one will be removed. I'm using an older 8° driver that I really like. If I keep it, I will probably keep the 13° 3w. I will add a lob wedge, but not until I have played a few more times.

Eclipse Stand Bag
Big Bertha 2007 460 11°
Big Bertha 2007 3w 16°
Big Bertha 2007 7w 22°
C9 475 2h 18° Insight XTD 5i-SW White Hot XG #7--------------------------------http://www.linkedin.com/in/normh3

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I know guys who have over 20 clubs in their bag. They're gamblers who only follow the rules that are stipulated for each match. They'll handicap their matches themselves rather than rely upon some formula the USGA devises. Part of being a successful gambler is knowing how to handicap the match so that they can emerge victorious. Creative handicapping under those circumstances is as important as golfing ability.

Personally I don't worry about whatever methodology someone uses when they play. Play what you like enjoy and be happy. That being said if you strive to establish a USGA handicap, then you have to follow the rules they set down in order for that handicap to be valid. That's where the 14 club max comes becomes important. The rules stipulate where you can carry as many clubs as you like but you are supposed to declare which 14 you need and stick to those (I wonder if you could carry a lot of clubs and not declare which clubs you use untill you use them? That could be one way where you could work around the rule, but eventually you'd hit 14 and then you'd have to stick with those selections for the rest of the round).

Most of the people I play with don't have an official handicap. I don't. I do maintain an informal handicap where I utilize a computer program that tracks the scores I enter and uses the USGA's formula to generate an index. I also attempt to adhere to the rules of golf so that my handicap is indeed accurate. Doing it myself I'm saving the $35 yearly fee. If I ever decide to enter into any sanctioned events I'll need to get an official handicap, but for now I use the handicap system as a way of tracking my progress of improvement (or lack thereof) in the game.

Nike Vapor Speed driver 12* stock regular shaft
Nike Machspeed 4W 17*, 7W 21* stock stiff shafts
Ping i10 irons 4-9, PW, UW, SW, LW AWT stiff flex
Titleist SC Kombi 35"; Srixon Z Star XV tour yellow

Clicgear 3.0; Sun Mountain Four 5

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I do not have an established handicap; never bothered in 50 years of playing golf. In the last week two additional clubs have entered my bag, a 5 wood and a 6 iron, later today I am picking up a 7 wood. That will make 17 clubs. My friend says that I cannot even submit scores now because I have too many clubs. Heck I am thinking of adding a 4 iron too. Recreationally it seems more fun to have'm all. The word "set" should mean something; that you need to get the complete set!

I assume you ride a cart when you play or have a push cart...

Don

:titleist: 910 D2, 8.5˚, Adila RIP 60 S-Flex
:titleist: 980F 15˚
:yonex: EZone Blades (3-PW) Dynamic Gold S-200
:vokey:   Vokey wedges, 52˚; 56˚; and 60˚
:scotty_cameron:  2014 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I do not have an established handicap; never bothered in 50 years of playing golf. In the last week two additional clubs have entered my bag, a 5 wood and a 6 iron, later today I am picking up a 7 wood. That will make 17 clubs. My friend says that I cannot even submit scores now because I have too many clubs. Heck I am thinking of adding a 4 iron too. Recreationally it seems more fun to have'm all. The word "set" should mean something; that you need to get the complete set!

If you're playing for fun, not turning in cards for a hdcp, and not playing in a tournament, carry as many as you like. On any given day, I tend to struggle with which wedge or long iron to leave out to get down to 14.

I bet you could easily play with less, but once you add in irons, wedges and woods to fill yardage and ball flight gaps (off the tee and for specialty shots) it can get carried away.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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What clubs did you already have in your bag if you had 14 and are now adding typically standard clubs (like a 4 iron)? 5 wedges? 2 putters? 2 drivers?

What's in my hoofer 2 golf bag:

Driver:: R9 9.5* with Fujikura Rombax 7Z08 shaft in X-stiff
3 wood:: R9 15* with Fujikura Motore F1 65g in X-stiff
2-PW: TA2 with Dynamic Gold X-100Wedges: 588 Gunmetal 53* Gap and 60* LobPutter: Pro Platinum Newport 2 with custom paint and stamp on heal/toeBall:

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You can see by my sig what I carry, I do have a compulsion to complete the set of all '07 Burner woods/rescues and all '09 irons... just 'cause. (And I would like one of the new replaceable face 64* wedges.)

So my friend is right? I cannot turn in a card if I play more than 14 clubs in that round?

I like the idea of declaring the clubs as you go, I hardly ever hit the 4 or 5 rescue and the 9 iron gets very little play.

Current Bag
Ogio Synchro cart
'07 Burner Driver, 3 Fairway, and Rescue 5
Early Titelist Cavities
200 56, Spin milled 60 , Rossa  Suzuka

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"..this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
- Walter Sobchak


I carry 14 clubs.

The bag:

Driver: Taylormade R7 Limited (10.5*)
3-wood: Taylormade R7 st (15*)
5-wood: Titleist 909 F2(18.5*)Irons: Taylormade RAC TP MB; Project-X 6.0 (3-PW)Wedges: Vokey Spin-Milled 52.08 Vokey Spin-Milled 58.12Putter: Odyssey White Hot Tour #1 (33")Ball: Titleist ProV1

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HOWEVER, notice that the penalty for playing with more than 14 is NOT as severe as I would have thought. Stroke play - penalty is up to 4 strokes, Match play - penalty is loss of up to 2 holes.

That only applies if you discover you have more than 14 after the round begins, and then take them out of play. If you know you have more than 14 and don't do anything about it's a DQ, as someone else pointed out.

If you're willing to adjust your scores and take these penalties into account, my read says "carry as many club as you like."

No. Scores are meaningless if you carry and/or use more than 14 clubs. Even if that weren't the case, you'd be artificially increasing your handicap (read: sandbagging) if you were to tack on penalty strokes to your score in this way.

So my friend is right? I cannot turn in a card if I play more than 14 clubs in that round?

Yes, that is correct. You're playing your own little variation of the game of golf, not golf.

I like the idea of declaring the clubs as you go

Not legal either. It's the number of clubs in the bag, not the number you actually use.

Bill

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14. Never more, never less

Mistakes can happen of course - like when I turned up for the final of the club knock-outs without a putter. Putted with one of my hybrids and shot a 73 to win on the last hole.

Ok, fun rounds can allow for a more relaxed bag. I believe good habits are as easy to fall into as bad habits though, so even in a fun match, I pack 14.
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You lose!

Sorry, it's not that simple...

# c. Excess Club Declared Out of Play Any club or clubs carried or used in breach of Rule 4-3a(iii) or Rule 4-4 must be declared out of play by the player to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play immediately upon discovery that a breach has occurred. The player must not use the club or clubs for the remainder of the stipulated round. PENALTY FOR BREAK OF RULE 4-4c: Disqualification. The extra club has to be removed (actually, not "removed", just "not played with anymore"), once the breach is noticed. If the breach is not noticed until after 18 holes have been played, then the guilty person can adjust their scores appropriately (4 additional strokes, or two lost holes), and the resultant score is still a legal score. Disqualification is not automatic. I was surprised at this, by the way.

HiBore 10.5 driver
GT-500 3- and 5-woods
Bazooka JMax 4 Iron Wood
Big Bertha 2008 irons (4 and 5 i-brids, 6i-9i,PW)
Tom Watson 56 SW Two-Ball putter

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That's a lot of clubs! Guess I'm lucky and 14 clubs covers my yardage gaps pretty well.

What I Play:

Driver: R9 460
4 Wood: G15

Hy: Callaway FT 3Hy

Irons: AP1 4-PW

Wedges: Vokey 52* & 60*, Mizuno MP-T 10 58*

Putter: Newport Studio Select 2.7

Ball: Nike One Vapor

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That only applies if you discover you have more than 14 after the round begins, and then take them out of play. If you know you have more than 14 and don't do anything about it's a DQ, as someone else pointed out.

Golf is a gentlemen's game, but as we see in many posts on this board, gentlemanly play is in short supply.

Here's a scenario - You're playing against someone straight up - assume equal HCs so we can ignore "giving strokes" to make this simpler. After he putts out on 18, you notice he has 17 clubs - he carried a 2-iron and multiple hybrids that gave him a clear advantage during the round. He feigns ignorance, curses, and says "You're right, my mistake. I left the clubs in after my practice round." He then adds 4 strokes to his score, and beats you by one stroke. He then submits his score to the tournament officials. Is this a DQ, or is this correct?

HiBore 10.5 driver
GT-500 3- and 5-woods
Bazooka JMax 4 Iron Wood
Big Bertha 2008 irons (4 and 5 i-brids, 6i-9i,PW)
Tom Watson 56 SW Two-Ball putter

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Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 5256 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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