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The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing - Page 88

post #1567 of 1694

What I find very helpful for me when one course and my swing is getting out of order, I have a few items I check to correct and for me, they help immediately. First thing i watch my knees from setup. and I make sure my knees are bend and flared out just like my feet (hope I discribe it well) and secondly a (great) tip from David Wedzik. I lift my toes (in my shoes) from my right foot. For me, my swing problems occur when I am shifting my weight ever so slightly to my right side. Lifting the toes some how does it for me preventing a shift.

post #1568 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgolf View Post
 

What I find very helpful for me when one course and my swing is getting out of order, I have a few items I check to correct and for me, they help immediately. First thing i watch my knees from setup. and I make sure my knees are bend and flared out just like my feet (hope I discribe it well) and secondly a (great) tip from David Wedzik. I lift my toes (in my shoes) from my right foot. For me, my swing problems occur when I am shifting my weight ever so slightly to my right side. Lifting the toes some how does it for me preventing a shift.

 

S&T is not the Bible. There are certain exaggerations and/or misstatements that it does not clarify in book or video when discussing weight distributions versus pressure.


See Erik's threads regarding a study:

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64993/weight-forward-using-swingcatalyst-and-sam-balance-lab-to-explain-pressure-throughout-the-swing

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/65681/s-t-2-0-dvds-and-pressure-weight-forward-an-examination

post #1569 of 1694

I know of Erik's thread. I've read it a long time ago.

 

Saw a clip on youtube with David Wedzik also about pressure (featuring Petterson and Waite).

 

I know there are more ways to Rome so to speak. Having said that, I am sticking with S&T. It is pure, clear and proven right. But it isn't wrong to incorporate a tip that works for me (like lifting the toes up).

post #1570 of 1694
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgolf View Post

Saw a clip on youtube with David Wedzik also about pressure (featuring Petterson and Waite).

I know there are more ways to Rome so to speak. Having said that, I am sticking with S&T. It is pure, clear and proven right. But it isn't wrong to incorporate a tip that works for me (like lifting the toes up).

Stef, with all due respect, we've shown a lot of it to be quite incorrect. Like that video you mentioned. I'm glad you've had success, but saying it's "proven right" is incorrect. For your own sake please keep an open mind and keep learning. Don't become a mindless sheep or fanboy.
post #1571 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgolf View Post
 

I know of Erik's thread. I've read it a long time ago.

 

Saw a clip on youtube with David Wedzik also about pressure (featuring Petterson and Waite).

 

I know there are more ways to Rome so to speak. Having said that, I am sticking with S&T. It is pure, clear and proven right. But it isn't wrong to incorporate a tip that works for me (like lifting the toes up).

I guess the point is that S&T is a pattern that works but it is not taught the way it is practiced by pros.

 

I use the S&T pattern but put more weight pressure into the back foot as in the Waite/Petterson vids that were first posted here. When I started doing this, my head stopped dipping.

 

Even those close to Bennett and Plummer state B&P exaggerate the weight forward advice for amateurs because amateurs don't get enough weight forward. Problems arise when people do the exaggeration. But getting B&P to admit they don't teach it as the pros practice it is quite a chore ... so in the community, B&P are losing credibility.

 

I've had to get more weight pressure into the back foot and get significantly more distance. I am still making the transition, I had lessons w mvmac and Dana Dahlquist almost a month ago in SoCal - it takes time to make changes.

 

I also learned it's okay to rotate the upper body and arms as a unit, but that's another story

post #1572 of 1694
Thread Starter 
It goes beyond what Mr. Desmond just said as well. They have routinely stood by the numbers in the 2.0 DVDs, doubled down on them, yet those numbers have been proven to be flat out incorrect. They're dead wrong.

Additionally, several groups, organizations, and scientists have invited them to come in to verify some of the things they've said (for example, TPI) or be tested and they routinely refuse. Why are they unwilling to visit? They believe they're right and have stopped exploring.

The S&T swing, properly done, achieves all 5 Simple Keys®. But "feels" aren't real, nor are some of the numbers in the S&T 2.0 DVDs. This is laughable as well: SnT Ball Position Video . Look at that thread and the video in it, Stef. It's really bad.
post #1573 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Additionally, several groups, organizations, and scientists have invited them to come in to verify some of the things they've said (for example, TPI) or be tested and they routinely refuse.

 

The sign that someone knows they are wrong, but just don't want to be proven it in person. 

post #1574 of 1694
Thread Starter 

Stef, I could discuss the stupid "politics" of golf instruction all day. I've stopped doing it on Facebook and I've stopped doing it here because it's a waste of time. I'd rather spend my time exploring, growing, learning, and evolving. I would hope the same for you.

 

From my first post:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

This thread is for the discussion of the pattern: parts you find difficult, information about the pieces, the ball flight, the terms they use (most of which are TGM), etc. It's a place where people can get help with the pattern if they've adopted it or get information from others who have adopted it for those who are interested.

 

So let's get back to that. You'll find a concentrated group of people who understand the pattern, and LESS of the politics and BS that occurs on the Facebook group, right here. I'd also encourage you to look at videos at videos in this thread and to peruse the threads in this forum.

post #1575 of 1694

Great idea!

 

Stef, the S&T pattern has the elements of the 5 Simple Keys - and every method evolves as we learn more. One must always move forward with learning and adding to their swing as we learn what really works and why. That is what I have done with S&T - I have evolved that swing as I listen and learn - and a lot of that learning is right here on TST and from excellent instruction. 

 

And 5 Simple Keys is a great way of checking yourself as to the S&T pattern and each key. I work on a key almost every day, either in the mirror or on the range, even if it's only for a few minutes or a few hours. 

 

Good luck.

post #1576 of 1694

My current hcp is now 17.4. I do not take much lessons, takes to much time. I have a few basic drills I practise. I am sure I need to see my pro. What I (still) find difficult on course is the following. Sure it is technical but also mental.

 

I struggle with the hybrid. I grip it and I want to rip it. I put my body in tense, if you get what I mean. My best rounds are the ones when there is no tense. Few months ago I ripped my driver. Relaxed swing, good rhythm, a flow. 250/260 yards. Now, to much tension.

 

Other thing is pressure of the right foot in relation to moving to your left side. I think I understand the pressure item, I translate it like squatting from the ground, using the ground as leverage. Somehow, I do not transfer enough weight in the downswing to my left foot. A fault creeping back in.

 

I currently try to practise the following. In my set up, I push my hips a bit to the left along the target line (still trying to figure out how much, but I want the feeling that my left hip is in front of my left knee). I’ll close my shoulder a tiny bit to help me to swing inside out. I think, but I should film it, my left shoulder isn’t that much down. But that’s my feeling. I notice that I sometimes pull it. So I draw the conclusion my clubface is not closed enough in relation to the path. So I tweeked my grip a bit stronger. Better result.

 

Would like to see some tips/clips on that.

 

edit. My agenda is horrible with a lot work related duties. And when I tell my wife I have to go out for a golf lesson, well. And I know I am not the only one facing that problem:tumble:

post #1577 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgolf View Post
 

My current hcp is now 17.4. I do not take much lessons, takes to much time. I have a few basic drills I practise. I am sure I need to see my pro. What I (still) find difficult on course is the following. Sure it is technical but also mental.

 

I struggle with the hybrid. I grip it and I want to rip it. I put my body in tense, if you get what I mean. My best rounds are the ones when there is no tense. Few months ago I ripped my driver. Relaxed swing, good rhythm, a flow. 250/260 yards. Now, to much tension.

 

Other thing is pressure of the right foot in relation to moving to your left side. I think I understand the pressure item, I translate it like squatting from the ground, using the ground as leverage. Somehow, I do not transfer enough weight in the downswing to my left foot. A fault creeping back in.

 

I currently try to practise the following. In my set up, I push my hips a bit to the left along the target line (still trying to figure out how much, but I want the feeling that my left hip is in front of my left knee). I’ll close my shoulder a tiny bit to help me to swing inside out. I think, but I should film it, my left shoulder isn’t that much down. But that’s my feeling. I notice that I sometimes pull it. So I draw the conclusion my clubface is not closed enough in relation to the path. So I tweeked my grip a bit stronger. Better result.

 

Would like to see some tips/clips on that.

 

edit. My agenda is horrible with a lot work related duties. And when I tell my wife I have to go out for a golf lesson, well. And I know I am not the only one facing that problem:tumble:

Feel as if your lead knee is over your lead ankle - first move in the downswing (and Erik and Mike have stated again and again)

 

Erik has discussed this a lot, but if you need another voice on pressure (Erik is not the only one saying it - but he was the first to say it publicly. Grant Waite's teaching partner also recently published a vid on pressure):

 

 

post #1578 of 1694
Back to range and I'm really seeing improvements in my striking of 6iron and up. However it feels as if my 4 iron and 7 iron are going exact same distance. Just not same connection with longer irons yet
post #1579 of 1694

So, I have been practicing what I think is the S & T method for 3 days, mainly with my SW and short irons, 9 & 8. What I find is that the swing is so repeatable as long as I do my part, mainly keeping my head still, and my weight distribution. My clubs hit the turf almost in the same spot time after time, so I assume I'm doing something right. 

 

I find that 1/2 and 3/4 swings are so much easier than what I remember them being when I played yrs ago, as my results are Way more consistent. Another benefit is my distance have improved. All this makes me happy I found this site, and am thankful to those who contribute to the wealth of knowledge.

 

One thing has me thinking, how would you apply S & T to a sand shot..? . 

post #1580 of 1694
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

One thing has me thinking, how would you apply S & T to a sand shot..? . 

 

You wouldn't. It's not a short game method/swing.

post #1581 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You wouldn't. It's not a short game method/swing.

 

A tour player tried that once....it didn't last long.

post #1582 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You wouldn't. It's not a short game method/swing.

 

Duh, now that I think about it, that makes sense..

post #1583 of 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

So, I have been practicing what I think is the S & T method for 3 days, mainly with my SW and short irons, 9 & 8. What I find is that the swing is so repeatable as long as I do my part, mainly keeping my head still, and my weight distribution. My clubs hit the turf almost in the same spot time after time, so I assume I'm doing something right. 

 

I find that 1/2 and 3/4 swings are so much easier than what I remember them being when I played yrs ago, as my results are Way more consistent. Another benefit is my distance have improved. All this makes me happy I found this site, and am thankful to those who contribute to the wealth of knowledge.

 

One thing has me thinking, how would you apply S & T to a sand shot..? . 

Try this,

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/47906/pete-cowen-on-bunker-play

 

And when you need the ball to go higher, lower your butt towards the ground a bit. Experiment.

post #1584 of 1694

Thanks Mr. D That was very helpful...

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