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The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing - Page 32

post #559 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

So I decided to give stack and tilt a try today at the range as a change from my normal (horrendous) two plane swing. I have no clue if I am doing it right, but... my slice is gone. It used to be that every drive would go about 120+ yards forward and 40 yards to the left (left handed). Due completely, I believe, to a bad swing path. I was focusing too much on the club face being open and closed, but that was not the problem since the ball would start straight and then curve. The real problem was having a swing that went out to in, creating side spin on the ball.

Here is what I concentrated on:

More weight on my front foot, and increase weight throughout the forward swing, instead of shifting around so much.
Instead of having so much horizontal shoulder movement I concentrated on keeping my head still and dipping my shoulder vertically.
No more raising the club so much. I was trying to swing along a straight target line, but as I have now learned this is incorrect as a club swings in an arc. Now I swing back on one plane, waaaay farther back away from my body, and dip my shoulder to be able to do so farther.
Putting my hands slightly in front of the ball.

Based on what I have changed, what other tips should I follow? This is all for my driver btw, I haven't had a chance to apply this to my irons yet, but I am sort of afraid to since my irons are already straight...

I'm extremely excited right now. I've been miserable on the course lately due to my terrible drives.
post #560 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by BadGolfer View Post
So I decided to give stack and tilt a try today at the range as a change from my normal (horrendous) two plane swing. I have no clue if I am doing it right, but... my slice is gone. It used to be that every drive would go about 120+ yards forward and 40 yards to the left (left handed). Due completely, I believe, to a bad swing path. I was focusing too much on the club face being open and closed, but that was not the problem since the ball would start straight and then curve. The real problem was having a swing that went out to in, creating side spin on the ball.

Here is what I concentrated on:

More weight on my front foot, and increase weight throughout the forward swing, instead of shifting around so much.
Instead of having so much horizontal shoulder movement I concentrated on keeping my head still and dipping my shoulder vertically.
No more raising the club so much. I was trying to swing along a straight target line, but as I have now learned this is incorrect as a club swings in an arc. Now I swing back on one plane, waaaay farther back away from my body, and dip my shoulder to be able to do so farther.
Putting my hands slightly in front of the ball.

Based on what I have changed, what other tips should I follow? This is all for my driver btw, I haven't had a chance to apply this to my irons yet, but I am sort of afraid to since my irons are already straight...

I'm extremely excited right now. I've been miserable on the course lately due to my terrible drives.
I'd say keep it simple. Some people focus way to much of the weight forward aspect. There is only a 5-10% "shift" to the forward foot on the backswing. I never think about the weight going forward on the backswing. I would suggest:
- Turning the shoulders in a circle to keep the head centered. For you, right shoulder under the chin and the left back and around. A good feel is holding a club pressed against your chest and push the left shoulder back on itself. Try to get the shaft to point at the ball to get the feel of the shoulders turning steeply.
- Allow the left knee to straighten and right knee to flex, not lock, to get the shoulders, and hips to turn on a tilted angle. This also gets the arms in and keeps them in since the hips have room to turn.
- Put some tees under your arms, or maybe just under you right arm to start, to get the feel of connection.
post #561 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Driver continues to be my mortal enemy with this swing.
I am smashing my irons farther and more accurate than most guys I play with after practicing the swing all year.

I CANNOT get a consistent driver swing going though.

Any thoughts or drills out there for the driver swing as it applies to S & T?
post #562 of 1694
Thread Starter 

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by MMouse View Post
Any thoughts or drills out there for the driver swing as it applies to S & T?
It'd be helpful if you said what your problem was with the driver.
post #563 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
It'd be helpful if you said what your problem was with the driver.
Take your pick. Hook, slice, top, sky high, grounding the driver.

I have no idea what changes and why but once I get the driver in my hand with all of its length, I just can't feel the swing. It feels awkward.

Have you seen anything similar with any students? I just "feel" like the length puts me out of control.
post #564 of 1694
Thread Starter 

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Try this: straight arms on the backswing (that's the feeling - it'll help to prevent overflexing of the right elbow), really work on pushing forward even more.

We've never seen your swing on video, though, so take those tips for what they are - basically educated guesses based on... very little. We can't really help you without video.
post #565 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Thanks iacas, I know it's tough without seeing. I think I need to video a driver swing just so I can see it too rather than going by "feel".
post #566 of 1694

Stack and Tilt, my experience with it

I always have had problem with hitting behind the ball. I have taken two series of 6 lessons in the past and those lessons fixed my problem for a while but it always came back. My main problems is on the backswing the hands moving back, up and in instead of extending the club straight back away from the ball as in the traditional swing. In addition, I tend to have problem tranferring my weight back during the down swing. These combination resulted in thin and fat shots.

The threads about the stack and tilt swing on this forum got me interested. After some reading, watching youtube videos and watching videos of my own swing I was convinced that the stack and tilt swing is more natural for me. I bought the official stack and tilt book from Amazon and has been experimenting with this swing in the last three weeks.

I hit the ball very crisp now. On Saturday, I hit 180 balls at the range and none was fat. I also gained about 5 yards on average. I went to Torrey Pines North late Sunday to test my new swing on the course for the first time and again I didn't have any fat shot (normally around 3 or 4 fat or thin shots in a round). I hit 9 greens and shot 88. My score would have been better if I could putt, I had 6 three putts (2 misses within 2 feet). I have been focused on my full swing and neglected my putting practice.

I am a natural one planer with weight transfer problem so this stack and tilt swing works for me.

I can't guarantee that it will work for you but if you are having problem with the traditional swing, why not give it a try?
post #567 of 1694

Re: Stack and Tilt, my experience with it

awesome man. Stack and Tilt is kind of gimmicky to me...reason why I say that is because people are throwing a name at it now, but many of the qualities of S&T have been around forever, with all the best players using some form of it. Maybe not S&T to a "t" but qualities like ball position, weight on the left side, rotating around your spine, etc...

I used to sway..but in the last month or so, I have been focused on keeping my weight about 60% / 40% (left foot / right foot) at address, and in fact throughout the entire swing. I then focus on turning around my body on the swing and hitting it from the inside.

So I am taking pieces of S&T and incorporating it into my swing..though won't go as far as to say I am a S&T player as I am not. But doing these changes has allowed me to finally hit DOWN on the ball and take my divots out in front of it.

I have always been a "picker", because my weight has been on my right foot, not my left.
post #568 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by MMouse View Post
Thanks iacas, I know it's tough without seeing. I think I need to video a driver swing just so I can see it too rather than going by "feel".
Mmouse, have you tried to choke up on the driver shaft at all? I hit my driver better than I did before starting the stack and tilt, but still not perfect. I recently read a thread here about choking up and thus shortening the length of the club and it made a noticable difference. I moved my hands up a full 2 inches from the butt of the club.
post #569 of 1694

Re: Stack and Tilt, my experience with it

Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post
awesome man. Stack and Tilt is kind of gimmicky to me...reason why I say that is because people are throwing a name at it now, but many of the qualities of S&T have been around forever, with all the best players using some form of it. Maybe not S&T to a "t" but qualities like ball position, weight on the left side, rotating around your spine, etc...
It was the media that started giving it a name really, and for Mike and Andy to get some attention, they had to name it something. If you find the philosophy of S&T in the best players I'm not surprised, since that is exactly how Mike and Andy created S&T. They looked at thousands of golfers, good and bad through the history of this sport. They looked at what the best players had in common and put it together. S&T is what a lot of players already do, all top players got 80-90% of the S&T principles. It's the badmouthing S&T has recieved from the rest of the instructing world and the media that has given it a bad reputation. None of those negative comments have been based on facts, they are just trying to protect their own philosophy and business by cocking up stuff.
post #570 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by stacks04 View Post
Mmouse, have you tried to choke up on the driver shaft at all? I hit my driver better than I did before starting the stack and tilt, but still not perfect. I recently read a thread here about choking up and thus shortening the length of the club and it made a noticable difference. I moved my hands up a full 2 inches from the butt of the club.
2"? isn't that costing you some distance?
post #571 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

With regards to deep hands - if you take your hands back on the backswing, not deep enough, but a little "tall", more upright I guess, is the tendency to pull the ball?
post #572 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by nevets88 View Post
With regards to deep hands - if you take your hands back on the backswing, not deep enough, but a little "tall", more upright I guess, is the tendency to pull the ball?
It is for me. Once I get my hands "up" it is alot easier for me to start my downswing with my left shoulder and come over the top.
post #573 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by MMouse View Post
2"? isn't that costing you some distance?
Hahahaha, your funny, by costing me some distance do you mean from the ball to the pin on the second shot:) Honestly It may be or may not. I never really got a good read on distance because they would go so far off to the right. At the range I still hit the fence which is about 245 yds or so. Not any different from before when I did hit them straight.
post #574 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Well by the math, choking down on the club will probably loose you 5% velocity of the clubhead. Just for sanity, smash factor of 1.35, your looking at about a 7-8 mph change in ball speed. Thats probably a good 10-15 yards of distance, well that for someone who swings at 120 mph club head speed. Its going to be less for a slower swing speed because the percentage of lower number is smaller. So anywere from 5-20 yards depending on swing speed.
post #575 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

And you'll probably pick up that much (or more) by hitting the sweet spot more often.
post #576 of 1694

Re: The Stack and Tilt Pattern

Originally Posted by nevets88 View Post
With regards to deep hands - if you take your hands back on the backswing, not deep enough, but a little "tall", more upright I guess, is the tendency to pull the ball?
A pull require two things.

a) A swing moving out-to-in
b) A square clubface to the swingpath, which means it is closed to your alignment

With a swing moving out-to-in, you can hit a pull, pull-draw, pull-fade, fade or push-fade. You cannot hit a draw, push-draw, push or straight shot, relative to your alignment.

When the hands move out away from your body, it is harder to swing from in-to-out, simply because the hands are too close to the ball. They don't have the sufficient space needed to get to the inside. One option is of course to drop the hands deep, into "the slot". But why make a detour like that? For one, you lose power by having to re-route the hands. Making such a move is also more difficult than just getting the hands deep and in the slot right from the start. This is one of the things Tiger struggle with in his swing. Something Hank Haney unfortunately like to teach.

With the hands far out, it is also harder to get the right amount of hip push, since it is very easy to pull the arms over the top. The tendency will be to not move the weight forward, maybe even back, which is the opposite of what we want.
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