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"The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett - Page 2

post #19 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
I've heard that Mike and Andy aren't 100% pleased with the book, just as they weren't 100% pleased with the Golf Digest articles.

In the book, for example, instead of using a few terms from The Golfing Machine, they had to "dumb them down" and say things like "uncock the left wrist" and stuff.

FWIW, the power accumulators are:

1 - Bending and straightening of right arm
2 - Cocking and uncocking of the left wrist
3 - Turn and roll of the angle between the club shaft and the left forearm
4 - Angle formed by the left arm and the left shoulder
This is all golfing machine. Mike and Andy know their stuff and are cool guys.
post #20 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by jrgolfer View Post
This is all golfing machine. Mike and Andy know their stuff and are cool guys.
I know that. It's beside the point, though: the book doesn't mention "accumulators" or cover them by their names - it's slightly "dumbed down" a little bit. The MORAD positions (P1, P3, etc.) aren't included either.

This makes the book a bit more accessible but also leaves room for students to grow and learn a bit more language with instructors or fellow S&Ters.
post #21 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

rather excited for wednesday.... new irons tomorrow new putter tuesday and my book is delievered wednesday.

Will be nice for a few more people to establish an understanding and beable to pass along accurate information, it seems there is a VAST amount of missinformation surrounding S&T ... more so than pretty much any golf topic I've heard discussed.
post #22 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by lobsterzilla View Post
Will be nice for a few more people to establish an understanding and beable to pass along accurate information, it seems there is a VAST amount of missinformation surrounding S&T ... more so than pretty much any golf topic I've heard discussed.
That's true. There's a lot of bad information out there. For example:



And yes, that's the fella that used to be on this forum and a few others until he was removed. That image comes from the Facebook Stack and Tilt group.

Best to get your information directly from the source. Good luck lobster.
post #23 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

hey Erik ... do you know if there's an official list of S&T instructors? I've been looking for a directory of sorts as I look for an instructor and I've had no luck so far.
post #24 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

I believe their website (Plummer and Bennett's) will list them when it's available... but that may be awhile. Was supposed to be ready when the book was released.

Let's stick to discussing the book too in this thread, please. There's another Stack and Tilt "method" thread for the extraneous (but related) stuff.
post #25 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

I wAs kinda skeptical at first but after reading the most recent article on golf digest on this and only a few of my shots were mishits or hooks/slice. I was actually pulling off some nice draws with my shots today. I'm going out to get the book as soon as as I can.
post #26 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

initial thoughts of the book Erik? I'll posty my thoughts later tonight or tomrorow after i've read a bit more.
post #27 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by lobsterzilla View Post
initial thoughts of the book Erik? I'll posty my thoughts later tonight or tomrorow after i've read a bit more.
My review on Barnes and Noble:

Source: My Barnes and Noble Review
I've played to a low single digit handicap for years, and though I enjoyed the process of working on my own swing, I'd go through lengthy periods of time when I was searching for the key to my swing. Invariably, I'd find something, play well for a few rounds, and then enter another lull.

This year I decided to work with a Stack and Tilt instructor. Like many, I misunderstood a lot of the principles and had a lot of misconceptions about the swing, but with 20 or so PGA Tour players taking to it, I reconsidered. I'm glad I did - this year has been one of the most productive in my golf career. Not only do I know how to swing, I know how to fix it when things go awry.

Stack and Tilt is a fairly simple method of playing good golf, but nobody can do it alone. If you can't find an instructor nearby, this book does a great job as a stand-in (and if you can find an instructor, this book is a great reminder between lessons). The book's photos wonderfully illustrate the concepts and the instructions are simple, clear, and concise. Not only are the positions and ideas explained thoroughly, but PGA Tour pros contribute their "feelings" and "sensations" to help players who are helping themselves.

The book is more than a "here is how to swing the club" guide as well. The last third of the book is invaluable to golfers as it contains drills, common faults and their fixes, and much more. This book does more to actually help the golfer in 240 or so pages than most golf instructional books do in 400. It's not much of a stretch to call this potentially the most beneficial golf instruction book since Hogan's "Five Lessons."

Even if you're not a fan of the Stack and Tilt swing, I encourage you to pick up this book. Read the first chapter - I think you may change your mind. Implement some of the principles of the swing and, when you start beating your buddies, the book will pay for itself in no time.

post #28 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

for some reason I didnt read that first review as you having acctually read the book.... no idea why. my apologies.

Forward and Intro are great so far. Never knew the fact that Steve Elkington went from 398 to 40th on the money list in 1 year after Mike and Andy. Good stuff so far.
post #29 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

What I like about the book is that it describes 'golf principles', not a method. It does not say to put the club in this position because that is on plane and not give any definition and reasonfor 'plane'.

Golf's new list of fundamentals is changing the way we represent the swing. Low point, centers, axis, ...

Of the 20-odd players on tour who have adapted a principle or two, they have different unique motions yet apply the same principles. You can release it left like Wi or right like TA3 (release spectrum!)
post #30 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Great book, read most of it the day that I bought it from Borders. I also have the DVD's and think the book is an excellent supplement to them. I had trouble understanding some of the points in the DVD's that were better explained in the book and vice-versa.
post #31 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

One comment on Amazon claims that the writing is poor, they could have used a better editor, etc.

Any truth to this claim?
post #32 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by finitesoup View Post
One comment on Amazon claims that the writing is poor, they could have used a better editor, etc.

Any truth to this claim?
Nope. I see the comment (the guy still gave it 5 stars) and have no idea what he's talking about.
post #33 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

I picked up the book today and read the first two sections and skipped around other parts so far. In general, I love the book, and I was already pretty familiar with the theory before reading. I wholeheartedly agree with the positive reviews about the book's accuracy and clarity about what is important in a golf swing.

This is not a huge part of the book, but I would like to know what you guys think about the section on shot-shaping and "attachments" as they call it, on pages 126-131. Personally, I think it's fairly unclear. Specifically, it seems to me that if you are working from a base shot that is straight, and you follow the advice exactly on page 128 to play a fade, you will actually hit a slight pull-hook (the directions say nothing about adjusting alignment, ball position, or swing path to make up for the closed clubface). Are they implying that the different attachment positions will naturally change the swingpath, which will create the sidespin? It seems unclear.

Combined with an adjustment to alignment or swingpath, the section makes sense to me, and I actually think the philosophy of "guarding against over-curving" is a really solid idea, but I think the section could have been written much more clearly.

My personal take on the section is that I will just add in my head a "Step 1: Adjust your alignment, which will automatically adjust your swing path and create the desired sidespin without requiring you to change your normal swing", and then use the ideas in the book about attachment to guard against over-curving.

Anyway, not a huge deal, but I wanted to see what some of you guys think about this section.

Edit: Ok, I see that on page 130 it says "note that the closed attachment applies to the pull-fade, with contact on the front side of the circle", but still, the way they presented this section is pretty mucky in my opinion. Bottom line: I'm disappointed that a book that is so well-written and clear about basically everything else is kind of confusing about a topic as important as shot-shaping. In other words, if I were a beginner reading this section, I'm not sure I would immediately understand what causes a ball to curve, and that's too bad.
post #34 of 124
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by laxbballgolf View Post
Specifically, it seems to me that if you are working from a base shot that is straight, and you follow the advice exactly on page 128 to play a fade, you will actually hit a slight pull-hook (the directions say nothing about adjusting alignment, ball position, or swing path to make up for the closed clubface).
They don't say anything about that because this is the section on attachments. You know by now to hit a draw you need to start the ball right - all those attachments are doing is helping you to start the ball left.

Moving the handle back more to your zipper helps you hit the ball on the front side of the circle, and thus, to fade it. Or hit a pull if you don't hit far enough on the front side of the circle or over-do the left clubface alignment.

They talk about hitting fades in different parts of the book. This section is just about attachments. Yes, to hit a fade you'll tend to aim a bit further left with your body. It just helps to move the circle (the tangent of which is the line pointing right to the target - the point that separates the "back" from the "front" of the circle).

Originally Posted by laxbballgolf View Post
My personal take on the section is that I will just add in my head a "Step 1: Adjust your alignment, which will automatically adjust your swing path and create the desired sidespin without requiring you to change your normal swing", and then use the ideas in the book about attachment to guard against over-curving.
That's the point, yeah.

I see your point, but at the same time, I didn't find this section confusing. Obviously we came into it with different background knowledge, though.
post #35 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Picked it up today from Border's as a "present" from the girlfriend. As a 20 handicapper, i'm looking forward to actually trying to engrain a swing that it simple in theory, yet effective. Got some UA cold weather gear too, so hopefully by spring we'll have a dropping handicap and dropping jaws.
post #36 of 124

Re: "The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Benn

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
They don't say anything about that because this is the section on attachments. You know by now to hit a draw you need to start the ball right - all those attachments are doing is helping you to start the ball left.

Moving the handle back more to your zipper helps you hit the ball on the front side of the circle, and thus, to fade it. Or hit a pull if you don't hit far enough on the front side of the circle or over-do the left clubface alignment.

They talk about hitting fades in different parts of the book. This section is just about attachments. Yes, to hit a fade you'll tend to aim a bit further left with your body. It just helps to move the circle (the tangent of which is the line pointing right to the target - the point that separates the "back" from the "front" of the circle).



That's the point, yeah.

I see your point, but at the same time, I didn't find this section confusing. Obviously we came into it with different background knowledge, though.
Wow, that was a great read! (Long flight today = I read the whole thing.) The book strikes the perfect combination of clear theory and specific technical instructions. Beyond that, the systematic approach that they lay out for working on your swing is extremely well-designed and practical. Genius!

When I read the rest of the book, I realized I was approaching the attachment section in the wrong way. I assumed it was Stack & Tilt’s version of the typical “How to Hit Fades and Draws”, but it’s really more about their philosophy for guarding against the over-curve, and it fits with the rest of the book fine. There is literally only one item in the book that I don’t necessarily agree with: the photo of the Stack & Tilt follow-through on page 77. Why is the club shaft pointed in that direction up and to the right? Shouldn’t it be following the same arc as the backswing and downswing? I guess maybe the idea is that the downswing has been completed already and the hands are relaxed at that point so they can drift off plane with no ill effects, but the photo still slightly bothers me. Other than that small point, I think the book is nearly flawless!

One last thing: I will say that I am not convinced a weight shift is as disruptive to the Stack and Tilt system as they make it out to be. As long as you stack the weight forward before the downswing, it seems to me like it wouldn’t change the rest of the swing much at all (other than maybe making it more difficult to consistently find the right arm positions at the top of the swing). I also think using a weight shift could provide the benefits of slightly more power and possibly a feel/tempo/balance combination that some players would prefer (or at least are more familiar and comfortable with). Sure, maybe the weight shift is an unnecessary move, but I just think they are slightly overstating how disruptive it is to the Stack and Tilt system.
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