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Heavier club head = ball goes farther? - Page 5

post #73 of 98

FWIW, I've noticed a real change in my ability to control the club head through space when I changed to lighter weights in my driver. 6g in the heel and 4 in the toe. 

post #74 of 98

That's likely more due to the change in the MOI of the club, rather than the static weight.

 

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2011/11/moi-matching-faqs.html

post #75 of 98

My $.02 ... light driver heads work with FAST swing speeds.   

 

My swing speed is your basic average 90-92 mph or thereabouts.    Lets assume this is a constant - only because in my case, I'm not trying to swing fast, but under control.    Buying a light headed driver would make no sense to me, because I'm simply not trying to swing hard - I'm all about hitting fairways.     Therefore, for a relatively slow swing speed, a slightly heavier head would have to move the ball farther, given the same swing speed. 

 

I can attest to this from experience.     I have a bunch of 460cc modern drivers in 9.5° loft - Adams, Ping, Nickent, Nike ... the 5 year old Nike SQ is significantly heavier - you can just feel the weight of it.   Based on my laser, on a dead solid perfect drive, it is about 12-15 yards further than the others.   But it generates too much sidespin, so the Adams is straighter, and currenty in the bag.   I'm a believer in more mass = distance, given the swing speed is the same.   Your mileage may vary on the swing speed aspect - if your goal is to swing faster by using a lighter headed driver, obviously you're gonna get more distance.

post #76 of 98

It makes sense when you think about it from the standpoint of momentum. A heavier object, traveling at the same speed as a lighter object, will have more energy to impart upon the ball at impact. E=MC^2. There's mass in the equation for energy, so this would make sense. however, you also need to factor in the extra energy needed to swing it, as well as possible variances in smash factor between the two drivers, along with consistency issues because it's harder to guide it to hit on the center of the face and provide maximum distance.

post #77 of 98
Just do whatever u need to do to swing as fast as possible and be consistent. Speed is exponential, mass is not. Simple algebra and elementary physics. That's why C is squared, M is not..

Speed is everything....
SPEED!
SPEED!

Have we beat this horse to death yet?
post #78 of 98

Your basic assumption that swing speed is constant no matter what the weight is questionable.  Your normal swing with a heavy driver might be 90 mph. With a light driver it would be 93 with no more effort. Or at least that is the theory. In the real world some people get tenative with a light driver and swing slower than expected.  Others find it fits there swing great and pick up more yardage that expected.   When demoing clubs, unless you are keeping everything else constant (i.e. digitially checking the loft, same shaft and  measured flex, same swing weight,...) you can't really draw  meaningful conclusions.  That heavier club might be going farther but is it because of the mass or one of the other factors. No one can say. 

 

And for the physics class:

e= MC^2 doesn't apply. You are not turning matter into energy in golf. It is pretty much all conservation of momentum (which you do use conservation of energy ke=.5mv^2).  It gets pretty messy but pretty much  end up with

Vball = (1+Cr)Vclub/(1+Mball/Mclub)

for an nonelastic collision between a moving object and a nonmoving one. Higher mass will give you a better ratio here but if you look at the equations for calcuation Vclub, you will see as the mass goes up, the Vclub goes down in theory.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post

My $.02 ... light driver heads work with FAST swing speeds.   

 

My swing speed is your basic average 90-92 mph or thereabouts.    Lets assume this is a constant - only because in my case, I'm not trying to swing fast, but under control.    Buying a light headed driver would make no sense to me, because I'm simply not trying to swing hard - I'm all about hitting fairways.     Therefore, for a relatively slow swing speed, a slightly heavier head would have to move the ball farther, given the same swing speed. 

 

I can attest to this from experience.     I have a bunch of 460cc modern drivers in 9.5° loft - Adams, Ping, Nickent, Nike ... the 5 year old Nike SQ is significantly heavier - you can just feel the weight of it.   Based on my laser, on a dead solid perfect drive, it is about 12-15 yards further than the others.   But it generates too much sidespin, so the Adams is straighter, and currenty in the bag.   I'm a believer in more mass = distance, given the swing speed is the same.   Your mileage may vary on the swing speed aspect - if your goal is to swing faster by using a lighter headed driver, obviously you're gonna get more distance.

post #79 of 98
the simple answer is that the heaviest club you could swing the fastest is going to produce the best results. 
 
To find that..there is no simple solution, though.  It would involve a lot of trial and error, a lot of testing, so on and so forth because there are so many variables to switch out. 
 
Its not like a baseball bat which is a pretty simple design.  With a golf club, you have loft, shaft properties of all kinds, CG, head size, yada yda yada....you could go for days trying to find it.
post #80 of 98
If I was to double the speed with the same mass, id have 4x the original energy smashing into the ball.

If I double the mass with same speed id have only 2x the original energy smashing into the ball.

How is that wrong?
post #81 of 98

Without getting to technical here it's common knowledge that a pw head is far heavier than a 3 iron head yet Sergio Garcia can belt the 3 250 yards. Loft from 21 deg to 48 is a huge gap not to mention shaft length. It would be a interesting experiment to make a 500 gram 12 deg driving iron attached to a xxx shaft with a robot swing to see what happens. Thin faced driver with 460 cc actually have very little mass just more spring but can smash the ball. I think with golf shaft length loft and flex are the prime factors in distance. I believe mass can effect ball flight and impact and might have an effect on distance given 2 5 irons same length same loft same club but one was 200 grams heavier. If this was a scenario than in a controlled test swinging at 100 mph the heavier club might go farther.

post #82 of 98

 my two cents..

                             I followed Ian Woosnam several years ago at an event.  He was paired with Faldo.  He was blasting it 50 yards by Sir Nick all day.   Woosie is 5 foot 3.   Nick is 6foot 3. This was near the end of the persimmon driver era. 

At the end of the round, I asked Woosie' caddie how can Ian be so long?  Two things , he said:

 

Ian was a boxer as a kid, and had incredible forarm strength.  He could rip a deck of cards in half with his hands

 

He let me hold his driver...easiliy the heaviest driver i had ever felt. I had heard he had taken the plate of the bottom, hollowed out some wood, and put a large marble size piece of metal in it..... ( this not from the caddie, so not sure)

talk about compression! 

post #83 of 98

You ain't no Einstein. Energy equals Mass, weight, times  Velocity squared. Lighter club is swung fast goes farther because more energy is imparted to the ball.

post #84 of 98

I believe that the application of the mass is the critical factor. We all have heard of the trend of adding loft to our drivers to increase total carry distance. Another trend is removing weight from the shaft to increase clubhead speed. I believe we need to look at these studies when trying to create an optimal driver.

 

Lets say we take an 8.5 driver head and add the mass of a golf ball to the lower back of the club; roughly 46oz. Then we take a light weight shaft, around 60 grams, with low torque and counterbalanced; maybe a UST Axivcore (low-launch). I believe you can produce a driver with a GREAT smash factor and maintain clubhead speed. The swing weight would be high (D6- E3) depending on the length, but I believe it would be the best of both worlds. The head would produce low spin, the weight would produce a higher launch and MOI, and the shaft can produce a penetrating flight! The parabolic curve would be a joy to watch!

 

I believe the problem exist when we just talk about adding weight and not considering gear effect into the situation. The problem seems much easier when we take all of the information we know about distance into consideration. I would much rather be hit by a fly moving at 100mph than a rock moving at 100mph!

 

Of course, all of this is subject to the swing. The example I gave is for a high ball hitter. If you are a low ball hitter you may want to switch to a higher launching shaft; UST Axivcore (high-launch). Also you would want to tee the ball lower in the correct sweet spot to receive all of the ballspeed and not high on the roll of the face. That is more of a glancing blow. Let the gear effect of the added weight work. Experiment and have fun!

post #85 of 98

I apologize. A golf ball is roughly 46 grams, not ounces.

post #86 of 98

This has got me interested enough to try the experiment out for myself. I currently have a 9.5 Taylormade R7 Quad driver and a 8.5 Taylormade R7 Superquad. I will post the results as soon as I am complete with data. 

post #87 of 98

Heavier is better imo.

post #88 of 98

Put some lead tape on your driver and give it a go.  If a little tape makes it go farther, try more.  If a little lead tape makes it go shorter, you need a lighter club.  

post #89 of 98

Smash Factor = 1.83 * cos (spin loft) / (1 + M%)

 

M% = mass ball / mass clubhead

 

So from this, the Smash Factor increases by two things. Decreasing Spin Loft (higher value in COS will create a lower value), or decreasing the M%.

 

So how do we decrease M%, by either decreasing the mass of the ball or increasing the mass of the clubhead.

 

So yes, mass of clubhead can increase smash factor.

 

Basically the smash factor equation is the physics collision equation, except with out the velocity.

 

You got to be careful though, increase clubhead mass will mess with the velocity of the club. Lets say you add 10 grams of lead tape to a clubhead. Your looking at increasing the smash factor by only 1.48 to 1.49, so only 1% increase in distance.

 

So lets say your able to do this for a driver and not loose clubhead speed, lets say 100 mph, your only going to gain 1 mph more in ball speed. That's very very marginal.

post #90 of 98

 After reading all the above theories I came to this conclusion.........I am a carpenter.......Let's say I have a 20D nail 4 inches long. 

                                    Swinging at the same speed and rhythm, a 32oz hammer will drive the nail further than a 24oz hammer............

                       Another example to help us under stand is this. Using the same speed and rhythm, which would give a bigger blow to your finger, a 32oz hammer or a 24oz hammer.     

                         Case closed.       

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