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miura vs. mizuno - Page 2

post #19 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post
Alot of player's play Miura irons, they just have someone else's logo on them..

Name them.

We all know about Tiger and Nike a decade ago.

Next you'll be referring to him as "Miura San"

But then again, in your case it would more likely be Miura 'San.

post #20 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

Name them.

We all know about Tiger and Nike a decade ago.

Next you'll be referring to him as "Miura San"

But then again, in your case it would more likely be Miura 'San.

Here is an article from the New York Times.  It's pretty obvious that Miura forged Tiger's Titleist irons, Miura said so himself.  

A Japanese Club Maker Forges a Reputation for Craftsmanship

Article Tools Sponsored By
By BLOOMBERG NEWS
Published: June 17, 2007

Katsuhiro Miura and his family-owned Miura Golf have been shaping hand-forged clubs for three decades in Himeji, Japan, where craftsmen once pounded steel into samurai swords.

Without a formal presence or a single endorsement contract at the Open, which concludes today at Oakmont Country Club near Pittsburgh, the work of the 67-year-old Miura is well known. Retief Goosen and José María Olazábal used his clubs while winning majors.

“From what I’ve seen all these years, what he did really stands out,” said Olazábal, a finicky critic of equipment who used Miura clubs to win his first Masters title in 1994. “He was very, very meticulous.”

Miura Golf sells its custom irons for about $2,000 a set and provides what it calls “professional discounts” for top-ranked players, whose clubs can cost far more. While Miura Golf does not sponsor any golfers, its clubs have been used in 25 Japanese Tour victories.

The company has also forged irons for manufacturers like TaylorMade and Titleist. Because of such branding, players are often not aware of who is behind their clubs, even when they win.

“I haven’t met him,” Goosen said when asked about the Miura clubs he used to win the 2001 United States Open. “I didn’t know he did my clubs. I hit it pretty solid that week.”

A solid feel is what Miura is known for, and a forging process developed more than 47 years ago by the company’s founder is what sets the clubs apart, Bill Holowaty, a Miura vice president, said in an interview in the company’s North American office in Vancouver, British Columbia.

Forged clubs are made from steel that is heated and pounded into shape, and smoothed and finished on grinding wheels like the ones in Miura’s shop, 6,600 miles from Oakmont.

Most forged clubs are struck twice with a forging hammer. Miura’s irons get one more striking, creating a tighter molecular structure in the steel, which under a microscope looks more like a jar filled with sand than a jar filled with marbles, Holowaty said.

“There are fewer voids in the steel, creating a more solid feel,” Holowaty said.

TaylorMade, based in Carlsbad, Calif., worked with Miura’s 25-employee company for four years for its Tour Preferred line of RAC CB 300 irons. The partnership ended in 2004 because Miura’s 14-step forging process does not lend itself to mass production, the TaylorMade spokesman John Steinbach said.

Miura Golf makes only about 50 sets of irons each week, or about 1 percent of the output of major manufacturers like TaylorMade or Titleist.

Miura typically can be found sitting in the last chair along the company’s line of grinding wheels, with his two sons, Yoshitaka and Shinei, working alongside. His wife, Akemi, often rejects clubheads for the slightest imperfection.

Described by Japanese golf media as having the “hands of God,” Miura is a master craftsman, not just a club maker, Olazábal said. In his 1994 Masters victory, Olazábal used clubs forged by Miura under the name of Maruman & Company, a Japanese club company.

“He was quite serious about it and took his time with every step,” Olazábal said. “There was no rushing anything.”

As many club companies create oversized, mass-produced clubheads by pouring metal into casts, Miura’s forging process remains an anomaly. With a thin edge on the top of the clubhead and a straight connection where the shaft meets the face, the classic look of Miura clubs tends to appeal more to purists and highly skilled players than average golfers leaning toward ease of use.

“Most players look at them and say, ‘I can’t hit those blades,’ ” Holowaty said. “Mr. Miura would argue the other way. A well-made forged blade is actually easier and more forgiving, and produces a more precise strike than oversized clubs.”

Tiger Woods, the world’s top-ranked golfer, who is paid about $20 million a year to endorse Nike equipment, said at a news conference last month that he had never used Miura clubs. Beth Gast, a spokeswoman for Nike Inc.’s golf division, said in an e-mail message that Miura had never made clubs for Nike.

Miura said in an e-mail message that he has made wedges for Nike, and his company’s Web site says that in the late 1990s he forged irons for Woods under the Titleist name, then a Woods sponsor.

Miura, who would not comment directly about Woods, made 500 sets of limited-edition Tiger Woods Titleist models exclusively for the Japanese market in the late 1990s, Holowaty said.

For golfers like Olazábal who have won with the clubs, there is no denying the secret to Miura’s success.

“The Japanese people regard their work as if it was a piece of art,” Olazábal said. “That’s what really stood out. He paid attention to the smallest of details.”
More Articles in Sports »
Need to know more? 50% off home delivery of The Times.
 
 
There was also a video on youtube that where Don White said that he has built rebadged clubs for over 200 tour pros so obviously pros are playing the clubs built to the highest standard.  Why is this so surprising when this is common in say motorcycle racing where the frame is the only thing that a race bike and a stock offering have in common.  It's all about the logo.  If you believe that pro's play clubs right off the rack you are very nieve in my opinion.  They are extremely picky and there is no way that  off the rack clubs will satisfy all of there demands.
 
 
 
post #21 of 70

Miura does NOT forge their own irons.  I have a highly credible source who says that Endo forges them for Miura.  Also, the notion that Miura, "hand forges" clubheads is laughable at best.  Its amazing how people buy into the hype and mystique of Miuras.  Its a great piece of clever marketing, really.

post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post

Miura does NOT forge their own irons.  I have a highly credible source who says that Endo forges them for Miura.  Also, the notion that Miura, "hand forges" clubheads is laughable at best.  Its amazing how people buy into the hype and mystique of Miuras.  Its a great piece of clever marketing, really.

Well your "credible" source has to refute a tour of Miua's factory in Himeji.  Come on now no human could'd "hand forge" golf club but the grooves are forged into the face by a template that is placed by hand. Every company will try to market their clubs in a unique way just like "Grain Flow Forging" is probably just mizuno's unique way of doing things. Even if Endo forged the clubs they would have to use Miura's choice of metal, Miura processes, Miura's design, and Miura's quality control so they are MIURA irons regardless to what you wanna say. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdconj9Y_1Q

post #23 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post

Miura does NOT forge their own irons.  I have a highly credible source who says that Endo forges them for Miura.  Also, the notion that Miura, "hand forges" clubheads is laughable at best.  Its amazing how people buy into the hype and mystique of Miuras.  Its a great piece of clever marketing, really.
Well your "credible" source has to refute a tour of Miua's factory in Himeji.  Come on now no human could'd "hand forge" golf club but the grooves are forged into the face by a template that is placed by hand. Every company will try to market their clubs in a unique way just like "Grain Flow Forging" is probably just mizuno's unique way of doing things. Even if Endo forged the clubs they would have to use Miura's choice of metal, Miura processes, Miura's design, and Miura's quality control so they are MIURA irons regardless to what you wanna say. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdconj9Y_1Q


They're not hand forged? What's all this samurai swords bullshit then?
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post

Well your "credible" source has to refute a tour of Miua's factory in Himeji.  Come on now no human could'd "hand forge" golf club but the grooves are forged into the face by a template that is placed by hand. Every company will try to market their clubs in a unique way just like "Grain Flow Forging" is probably just mizuno's unique way of doing things. Even if Endo forged the clubs they would have to use Miura's choice of metal, Miura processes, Miura's design, and Miura's quality control so they are MIURA irons regardless to what you wanna say. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdconj9Y_1Q


BTW, my source runs a little forum called, "tourspecgolf" where theyve forgotten more about Japanese golf clubs than you will ever know.  Who said anything about Mizuno?  We're talking about Miura here.

About Endo, actually, companies come to Endo to help make their product better and Endo builds them to whatever specs they want but also advises them on how to make their product better, so actually its ENDO'S processes and ENDO'S quality control.  Miura's metal?  Yup but its just metal.  Nothing special from the metal used in any other forged iron.  Miura's design?  Yup but again, nothing special.  Miura irons?  Yup but its no better than any other players' iron/blade.

Thats what I love about the Miura crowd.  They act like Miura-san's product is so superior becaue he is a, "God hands" but show me on a launch monitor where they do anything thats any different than any other iron.  They dont.  Its all hype and mystique.

BTW, if you want to talk about softness and feel; most people consider Mizunos to be softer than Miuras.  Miuras have more of a firm feel, whereas when most people describe Mizunos they refer to them as, "buttery soft".

Miuras are great irons, no arguement there.  However, we need to stop with this talk that Miuras are somehow these magical, mystical clubs.  Theyre not, so just stop.

post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post

However, we need to stop with this talk that Miuras are somehow these magical, mystical clubs.  Theyre not, so just stop.

Crud. Sorry to hear that because I could sure use magical, mystical clubs!

a3_biggrin.gif
post #26 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Of course everything on a corporate website is 100% accurate and factual....


You Sir are a first class Pratt. 100% accurate and factual.a1_smile.gif

post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post

 Alot of player's play Miura irons, they just have someone else's logo on them....

Still waiting to find out who these players are.

Any references less than 10 years old.

Something simple like a list of 5 current players would suffice.

But.....obviously it's not true.

Seeing a set of TM RACs on ebay claimed to be made by Miura is not the same as naming these players.

You say "alot play Miura irons" (sic), so if I define a lot as 20 or even 10,  how about a list of 5 or even 3??

post #28 of 70

This thread is almost 2 years old and the OP hasn't posted anything for almost that amount of time either. e4_tumbleweed.gif

post #29 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick View Post

This thread is almost 2 years old and the OP hasn't posted anything for almost that amount of time either. e4_tumbleweed.gif

You got some mad math skills bro.
post #30 of 70

If you don't believe Miura's clubs for the USA are not made in Japan, email Adam Barr. I'm certain he'd like to bat your ears.

post #31 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick View Post

This thread is almost 2 years old and the OP hasn't posted anything for almost that amount of time either. e4_tumbleweed.gif

It's not about the OP anymore.

Perhaps you should look beyond the date of the first post.

It has been active lately.

It's about Righty to Lefty writing nonsense. e4_tumbleweed.gif

post #32 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

Still waiting to find out who these players are.

Any references less than 10 years old.

Something simple like a list of 5 current players would suffice.

But.....obviously it's not true.

Seeing a set of TM RACs on ebay claimed to be made by Miura is not the same as naming these players.

You say "alot play Miura irons" (sic), so if I define a lot as 20 or even 10,  how about a list of 5 or even 3??

So are you agreeing that it was well known that Miura produced clubs for various other OEM's.  Will you also agree that Miura doesn't pump out huge numbers of their own irons so they definately didn't produce huge numbers of other people's irons. Who do you think these irons were made for? The average everyday golfer or to make meticulous tour pro happy with his club demands yet keep the brand and logo agreements in tact.  If it went on why would you be so far fetched to think that player's who hit those clubs in the past wouldn't demand them today?

 

I don't claim to know exactly how many touring pros have Miura clubs in the bag all I'm saying is that if a company is supposedly doing something better than most, player's will find a way to get it in their bag.  If Don White is quoted as saying that he has made clubs for at least 200 tour pro's and putting their badges on them why would you believe that it all of a sudden just stopped going on?  I'm jus sayin. 

post #33 of 70
It's a myth.
People read about Miura making clubs for Tiger.
They come to sites like this and read that Miura make clubs for lots of tour pros .
This BS gets repeated and people believe it. Where are the names?
there have been a few, but not "a lot" of curent players. In fact, noone can name a SINGLE one.
Do you seriously think they have dies for all the OEM brands?
It's not true. Golf's biggest urban myth.
Edited by Shorty - 9/30/12 at 3:30pm
post #34 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

It's a myth.
People read about Miura making clubs for Tiger.
They come to sites like this and read that Miura make clubs for lots of tour pros .
This BS gets repeated and people believe it. Where are the names?
there have been a few, but not "a lot" of curent players. In fact, noone can name a SINGLE one.
Do you seriously think they have dies for all the OEM brands?
It's not true. Golf's biggest urban myth.

The past doesn't matter. If he did so, Miura stopped making irons for other OEMs about 10? years ago when he decided to aggressively expand his Miura brand internationally.

 

They are golf clubs. If you like them, great.

 

As to feel, I've owned 201, 301, PP-9003 at various times. To me, one feels very dense and precise (201), another like butter (301), and another like a forged, forgiving CB - not exactly butter and not as dense. (PP-9003). When hitting the PP-9003, I've had people come up to me on the range and comment that your irons make a different sound when they hit the ball. Never had that happen - but I don't think it's the irons - it's just that I am compressing the ball now, and apparently, they are not.  :-)

 

Feel is subjective - different to everyone.

 

Pick a club you love.

post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

The past doesn't matter. If he did so, Miura stopped making irons for other OEMs about 10? years ago when he decided to aggressively expand his Miura brand internationally.

 

They are golf clubs. If you like them, great.

 

As to feel, I've owned 201, 301, PP-9003 at various times. To me, one feels very dense and precise (201), another like butter (301), and another like a forged, forgiving CB - not exactly butter and not as dense. (PP-9003). When hitting the PP-9003, I've had people come up to me on the range and comment that your irons make a different sound when they hit the ball. Never had that happen - but I don't think it's the irons - it's just that I am compressing the ball now, and apparently, they are not.  :-)

 

Feel is subjective - different to everyone.

 

Pick a club you love.

Why have I been quoted here?

post #36 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

Why have I been quoted here?

In response to the myth thing... I've read stories in which Miura-san was quoted as stating that he did make irons for OEM's in the past. Apparently, it's not a myth. He did, but does so no longer.

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