Learned a valuable yet expensive lesson...

When it's not broke, no matter how big an equipment junkie you are...

Don't fix it... Ever...

I thought I had improved to the point where I should be looking at new set of irons; something a little less game improvement. Turns out the reason I was playing well was because I was used to the wider sole and more offset. That being said, the new sticks are out of the bag and the old ones are back in, they'll stay there until the 7 and 9 irons return from Cleveland. Once they get home, I'll be trading both sets in on the 2006 version of the Big Bertha irons.

There are now two ladies I won't ever leave:
1) My Wife
2) Bertha

Are they shovels? Yeah
But I was flirting with low to the mid 80's every time I went out. If that makes me a hacker, I'm cool with that. I really enjoyed the game with those clubs and I didn't have as much fun last night; at least not in my iron play.

Just another case of the ego getting in the was of me shooting better score.

you might want to search the forum for the thread "cavity back vs. blades". We went over this for weeks. IMHO less forgiving clubs temporarily will blow up your scores, but in a long run you'll benefit from better feedback off a muscle blade. If every shot feels and looks the same - how do you know what do you need to improve in your swing? Of course if you target is "low to mid 80's" - you might not care... I do

I appreciate the feedback guys, when you you say "blow up" your scores exactly how bad should this be? I'm mean seriously, I've 2 9 hole rounds with them and I've hit 3 buckets of balls and I seriously have hit an extremely small number of good golf shots.

Last night I hit one green with them. I've shanked them, I've hit them fat, and then in attempt to avoid that, I've skulled them as well. These are all things that I never ever had a problem with in the past. Was it because I could only hit my Big Bertha's straight and high? Probably, but if you give me straight and high every time; I'll take it

I'm going to keep the wedges as they are because for some stange reason, I hit them extremely well. That still confuses me, LoL...

To offer a dissenting view: while I agree wholeheatedly with both the previous posts' assesments regarding game improvement clubs, it may be that the lack of time one may have for practice and/or the consideration of talent/ability perhaps should be a consideration in deciding what one's goals should be and, consequently, what clubs may be most appropriate for maximum enjoyment. I offer this only as a thought for further discussion.

Whoops..... meant "wholeheartedly."

Makes me wonder what will happen to my game when i get a new set. I'm working with oversized cavaty back irons, but they definately don't have a wide sole.

I feel like i hit my irons fairly well (i hit my 3 iron quite well most of the time actually, which suprises friends that i golf with). From that observation i wonder if i need more game improvement just to lower my score, could i just get some muscle backs, and figure out how to use those well.

I dunno.

In the end i think i just need to go play test a lot ;) haha

They feel substancially lighter than my old irons, and the head feels really unstable at impact. The shafts are different, my Big Berthas have that uniflex steel shaft, but I'm pretty sure it's the weight of the clubhead itself that i'm noticing the difference on. It seems like my old irons just naturally dropped to the turf where as these don't. I'm applying the same swing that I've always used, I think that's where most of my frustration comes from, this is the same swing that produces relatively consistent drives and shots from my hybrids that look like their on a rope.

I was fitted at the dem0 van but we never talked about swing weight, just lie angle and length. I imagine this would indicate that I need heavier shafts, correct? Wouldn't that be a rather expensive endeavor? Will that in any way make the clubhead feel somewhat heavier?

Thanks! -Mike

My first question, is what set did you get from Cleveland? I think I missed that in this post. Then I'll know what shafts you are comparing.

Definately, you may be feeling the affects of the shaft difference more than the head itself. While the weight of the head will affect the swing weight, I'm going to bet it's the shaft diffence first. The overall (static) weight will create a more steady swing but going to light and you can't feel the club, like your describing.

Nothing against the guys on the van but they probably just set people up with the stock shafts. Lie and Length are easier to show the benefits to a buyer so these guys might not either felt it necessary to explain how the swingweight and static weight could help/hurt your game. It's a lazy approach because labor wise it's also also faster to change length and lie on a new set. Where dialing in the swing and static weight is a little more labor intensive.

Yup, reduce the amount of variables with getting a new set. They should have been setup as close as possible them you can really see the benefits on the new clubs.

Be prepared with these answers as well

Did you demo any Clevelands at the van? Did they build the clubs onsite for you? If so did you get to demo them immedialtely? If so how did you hit the demos and the set they built for you that day?

They're the Cleveland CG4's

This is exactly how it feels, like I'm swinging a shaft without a clubhead on it.

I demo'd the CG4 seven iron before I bought it, I hit it pretty well, pushed a little. But these don't feel the same. I was advised not to hit the clubs right away because the glue was possibly still drying. But the first swing I made with a 9 iron felt weird.

Swing weight indicated on the Callaway site for my current clubs is D2 except for the wedge, which is D4. The Cleveland site says the same for my CG4's. They feel like completely different clubs though. I'm pretty sure I have the Actionlite shafts in these irons, I know I broke my Callaway 7 iron and the shaft they replaced it with was a Dynamic Gold, which feels an awful lot more similar?

I'm going to do this once I hear back from Everado on which shaft they suggest me having placed on the clubs to make them weigh about the same as my current irons.

Thanks again everyone, this may be saving me a lot of time and frustration... -Mike

Maybe a lesson might help? Just because you can fly a Piper Cub (or whatever the aviation equivelent to game improvement clubs) may not mean you can fly an F-16 (to make an analogy).....


g

Here's my recommendation.

1. Have the swingweights of your current clubs checked just to make sure they're in the neighborbood of D2-D4. Then if the swingweight is atleast close, then you know the weight difference that you're feeling is the shaft itself. 2. Also have the length double-checked - 1/2" will affect the swingweight +/- a bit I'd recommend that you stick with the Dynamic Golds, the Actionlites are almost 20g lighter. Hope this helps and good luck

I'm going to have to agree with Rafi here. The best way that I can put it is that less offset, a thinner topline, and cut-muscle club is going to force you to swing well.

I played Titleist 804.OS's for over a year and while they were a very nice club, I wasn't very precise with them. I was more throwing the clubhead at the ball hoping for good results but not really knowing what produced a good ball flight. When I started playing the 690.CB my ball striking miraculously improved. I was thinking about posture, hitting down on the ball, swing plane, and such more. I know it must sound a little wierd but my game began to improve almost immediately. I believe moving from a regular to stiff shaft helped as well, but the clubhead made a difference. I wouldn't say that the 690's are extremely unforgiving. They are still a cavity back--a cut muscle design--and are quit forgiving compared to a true blade. They just provide that extra precision and feedback that keeps my swing a little sharper. I'll be playing Callaway's Fusion Wide Soles pretty soon and I'm looking forward to seeing what its like to play a super forgiving iron again. I'll compare the two experiences for myself and test my theory in the field again soon. It sounds like you've got some swingweight issues at work which are important to address as you consider what club will be best for you. Good luck! Fairways and greens!

I see a professional on a regular basis... at least bi monthly

Just wanted to provide a quick update on my situation:

Cleveland customer service shut me down on any thoughts of being re-fitted or having the irons reshafted. They suggested I call the private club proshop they held the demo day at. I called them and they were even less help, I got the same response as when I inquired about the rust on my 7 and 9 irons; nothing.

So I stopped at a local shop on the way to pick up my kids from work and hit pretty much everything that they had in a left-handed variety. The guy that works there has sold me a lot of equipment and suggested I take a few on them home to compare. Suprisingly, right now I'm most confident in the Taylormade RAC Lt's; which I thought would be a bit too much club for me; I can feel them throughout my swing which is what's missing for me in the CG4's. The Ping I5 feels too light, the Callaway X18 is reasonably close, but right now I'm leaning towards the Taylormade; going to hit them again tomorrow. The thing that suprised me the most was how solid the Lt's felt at impact, none of the instability I had with the CG4's. I didn't expect that from more of a "players club". The feel at impact was a lot softer than I expected from the smaller clubhead as well. I went and read a little bit more about them and was impressed with the focus on both workability and forgiveness. I certainly can appreciate the higher MOI in the Taylormade, the Cleveland felt more like it wanted to wrench out of my hand on toe-hits; the Lt still felt solid. And it looks like the the kind of club I could play for quite a fews years; I don't think my game would outgrow them.

I guess what I'm saying is that I may have to leave my 320 grudge behind if they act the same way tomorrow

Any thought's on this particular iron?

EDIT Read the review, lol... I guess I'm looking a pretty damn good iron!

-Mike

Man that sucks about the customer service and the pro shop...their probably claiming that "it's a custom order set and there's nothing we can do....blah, blah, blah"

So it sounds like cost isn't an issue cause you could get the CG4's re-shafted for a lot less than a new set...