Bogey Golfers and "Working the Ball" - Page 5

Re: Bogey Golfers and "Working the Ball"

It is predictable if you manage to swing the way you set up, but if I set up for a fade, I usually hit a straight shot because I'm too wristy. This means that even when setting up for a fade, I'm just as likely to hit a straight shot or even a slight draw.

Not thinking about technique? How can I then improve? I got a plan with my swing, I got many details I need to work out. If I don't think and focus on them, how can I improve? I want to think technique, if I don't, I fall into old habits.

Re: Bogey Golfers and "Working the Ball"

I don't understand the notion that shaping shots somehow makes it more predictable about what is going to happen. I've seen plenty of people line up for a fade and proceed to hook it (or vice-versa). Pros do it, too. Both "working the ball" and hitting it straight rely on the notion that the average of all the shots hit that way should be at the intended target. Anything different and there's a bias you need to account for. And I still say that given the choice, hitting your stock shot is the proper play unless it's just not really possible. But as iacas says, learning to work the ball on the range may give an "aha" moment that changes your stock shot for the better.

Re: Bogey Golfers and "Working the Ball"

I've just visualized the ball flight and the swingthoughts/setup I use for approach shots (on days when I was "working the ball"). Something occurs to me. What I'm calling a draw or a fade is probably essentially a straight shot to my playing partners. Definitely not as dramatic as the lines drawn for a classic draw of fade.

I try to draw and fade off the tee when the hole is shaped that way.  I still need a lot of range time, I'm still rusty from the winter break.  I havent tried working my irons much, but after reading this thread I may start trying it.  My driver fade stops abruptly and a approach shot with a fade might do the same... worth trying anyway

Multiple times per round on my home course, fairly short and tight course.  Shapes out of trouble.  To block the right side OOB on dogleg hole 4. Hole 7, dogleg'ish, second shot is a draw to follow curve of fairway and to block out water on the right side. To draw around a tree thats grows between tee and hole on par 3 hole 9, with bunker left front. To block the right side OOB on dogleg hole 11. Hole 16 draw in order not to end up on fairway of hole 15

I'm a little better than a bogey golfer, but I can't dependable work the ball right and left.  I know the principles for it, but my swing just has a mind of it's own.  When I'm in a situation where it's necessary to do so, I try it, but it doesn't always work. However, I won't try it if failure means utter disaster.  I'll play short, pitch out, or whatever I need to in that case.  Sometimes I just have to use my head and accept my limitations. 

 

I hit a few really nice planned draws and fades yesterday, it felt really good, but I still know that it was an aberration, not an epiphany.

I'm about a bogey and I can't reliably work the ball.  But I do have a go to trouble shot.  At my favorite course I seem to end up in the left trees a lot.  I carry an old 3-iron just for this eventuality.  I radically strengthen my right hand grip and take a 3-quarter swing, really turning it over at impact, and can pretty reliably hit a low (10 ft.off the round) hook that goes under the branches and advances the ball down the fairway a fair bit.  Sometimes I get the feeling that my body is hitting it into the trees on purpose just because I love playing this shot so much.  LOL

I'm in complete agreement with the OP.

I'm a little better than a 5 (CDGA) on a course with a rating of 71.3 and slope of 128.  I NEVER work the ball.  I believe that's for competitive players well into the plus category.

 

The mechanics of the swing dictate that someone who needs to hit it 55 times before they putt is someone who should do very little to change the swing, shot to shot.  They should just try to hit the best shot they can with their natural trajectory, shape, and positions.  The odds are in your favor if you do that.  It's already hard enough for a bogey golfer to hit the ball they way they want to, without changing things or cluttering the mind with changes.

 

Now, i do alter trajectory off the tee into the wind, but that's just a matter of lowering the tee.  I just try to hit the ball with my normal tiny draw (15 feet at 250 yards)  and low trajectory.  Trying to do anything different, shot to shot, just seems like asking for trouble.

 

Now to those who were talking about trouble shots, i get that.  Since i'm a percentages player, if i'm behind a tree i'd probably just hit a little punch and make sure i did no worse than bogey, rather than try to hit a hero shot.  But, that's a style choice, not a technique thing.  I prefer to keep my score under control by making sure i make my 14 pars and 4 bogeys, and not try to be more aggressive than my skills permit.

Rarely, i dont really know the average, maybe 1 or 2 shots, other then that i just hit it straight and watch her go..

From an 8.4 index (not scratch, but I'm not shooting in the 90's more than once a year) there is no need to worry about "working" the ball on your regular shot. As with most pros, what matters is that you know what your "regular" setup and shot is going to do.  For me, that's a slight fade - I play it all the time and only worry about "working" the ball left or right if I'm in trouble or on a hole with a sharp dogleg - and even at that I only adjust my foot position (back foot back 1-2" for a draw and front foot back 1-2" for a more pronounced fade).  

 

Course management will get you much farther than anything you can do with your swing when you're a bogey golfer.  I have seen far too many players trying to flop it from just off the green or trying to hit a miracle shot when the prudent play is to just get into position for your 3rd shot, try to get it within 15-20 feet and give yourself a putt at par.  It's funny how many more of those long par putts you make when you keep your game in check.

In response to your question regarding bogie golfers & their claims of noticing the "feel" of a club & even more comical, looking for clubs that allow them to "work" the ball, or the best is when they write a club review and state they are now placing their drives @ 275-290 yds with their new driver. As a 4.2 handicap who plays tournament golf  & I play out of a club that hosted the '03 U.S. Men's Amateur, I have not seen the bogie golfer who can consistently "work" a ball when needed. I truly believe that most of these clowns are delusional & behind the anonimity of this screen can claim & write whatever they want. 95% of the bogie golfers I've played with, cant even carve three consecutive  correct divots.  Their swing bottom is all over the map. Three swings! At least two different impact points. As far as feel, I'm not saying that they can't tell the difference between a SGI club & a player's MB or CB, but if I see the word "buttery" one more time, I'm gonna put my 5 iron through my screen(LOL)...I play Mizuno MP68s, & if I hit blind folded, I seriously doubt that I could tell the difference from my club & comprable clubs. I would probably notice the sound though, for whatever that's worth.  I cannot consistently "work" the ball(maybe 50-60% accuracy) & in a tournament or pressure match, I don't EVER consider "working" the ball. Not until I'm consistently @ 95+% would I consider trying to "work" a shot under pressure. As Lee Trevino said @ Oakmont in '73: " What's wrong with shooting for the center of the green?"....I would say to practice & groove a simple, reproducable swing. When you can hit ten consecutive balls, moving down the line, & have your divot in the exact same spot,ie, starting in front of the ball, then you're well on your way to being a "player." Then, worry about "working" the ball. The very best to ya......Keep it in the short hair.

I try to hit straight most the time, and i plan my shots so i dont have to put myself in that position.  Why is everyone so worried about "working" the ball, there are so many more important parts of your game you should be working on if you are a bogey golfer. 

Sometimes when I attempt a draw or fade it goes more or less as planned and I'm really chuffed with myself.  But then there's the times that the b*****d thing goes dead straight and I end up in a world of hurt.  So for me it really isn't worth trying it at my stage of the game, unless the consequences of a straight shot aren't so bad - in which case, why bother?

 

Because it's interesting to try I suppose, and like someone said it might eventually improve one's game.  It's always good to aspire to a higher level.  Besides, it makes you appreciate the pros - and the low 'cappers - even more. 

 

The hard part about "working" the ball for me is convincing my subconscious mind that I'm NOT really trying to hit it straight, even though I'm set up nicely to put sidespin on the ball.  If you aren't careful your mind automatically compensates and the ball takes off like an arrow - into the rocks/desert/woodland/.... 

 

 

Edited by Chas - 3/3/11 at 12:55am

I attempt to work the ball, and I'm a bit worse than a bogey golfer. 

 

Key point: I "attempt" to work the ball.  It usually doesn't come off the way I visualize it (draws become hooks -- or just really fat/topped shots, etc.), but a handful of shots work out, and I figure I need to try things **on the course** if I ever hope to be able to pull them off **on the course**.

 

No rush like pulling it off though!  I actually managed to draw a ball around a tree (after a badly sliced tee shot) and onto the green a few weeks ago, and I still get happy thinking about it.

Yes it's a bit like hitting a really good chopped down 7i to keep it below a branch and run the ball up fairly close to the pin - a much easier play for me than a shaped approach to avoid a bunker or something.  They are both profoundly gratifying and memorable shots when you pull them off, seldom as that may be.   

I don't quite understand this. Sacraficing consistency at this level doesn't make sense. You can work the ball with SGI and GI irons, you don't need new clubs to do it.

 

The only real advantage a bogey golfer would get would be better feedback.

That is the point I would say.  The more you learn to work the ball, even a bit and only occasionally, the more you understand how subtle changes in alignment, grip (open/closed), finish position (high vs low) etc etc can influence ball flight.  This is a good thing if you want to be a decent player in the end.  But in the short term it can be detrimental of course. 

 

"We're all of us in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - or something to that effect.  Anyway, to each his own - I wouldn't try to talk someone into doing it if it doesn't feel right.  I only try it if I've got some "feel" going and am playing with a bit of confidence.  Never on an off day, that's for sure.

I'm not going to lie, I try to a hand full of times each time I play. I know I'm not good enough or consistent enough but it's just more fun. I'm a decent golfer playing around an 8 right now but I just enjoy it. I'd rather enjoy hitting that hard 7i 170 with a draw 15% of the time then just hitting the 6i smooth. We aren't playing for money or our tour cards here people, have some with the game.