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post #235 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by golfro View Post
god i love these discussions. its the most entertaining part of this forum.

I swing at 113-118 mph average and carry 260-270 average. what of it?

anyway, my take on distance...don't dismiss it. Distance can be a GREAT thing. Anybody watch Bubba Watson smash it 340 yards this weekend leaving him with a wedge shot to 2 inches from the pin during the sudden death? Then anybody else watch Corey Pavin hit it 220 yards then have to hit a long iron straight into the bunker? (btw, congrats to Bubba, he deserved it)

Point being, i don't know why people dismiss the importance of distance. It's a great advantage to have when its the difference between hitting a 9 iron 140 yards versus hitting a 4 iron 220 yards. Sure short game is important, I won't deny that but I'm baffled by how many people say "work on your short game" to a high handicapper. Yes, work on your short game, but work on your swing too. Playing devil's advocate...whats the use in being able to 1 or 2 putt on every hole, if it takes you 5 strokes to get on the green in the first place? It's a two way road my friends, putting, distance, and accuracy are all crucial in lowering your handicap.

I find it interesting how people don't practice at the range but want to get better. I spend 4-5 days out of a week at the range hitting 150-200 balls each day, meticulously scrutinizing my swing on every single ball I hit. I would be no where near single handicap if I didn't put in the practice that I do. Thats how you get better at the game, not just by putting all day long. Again, yes putting helps, yes accuracy helps, and yes distance helps.
Your claims are not so crazy, you're a 6 handicap, which could merely be a lack of short game and bad decsions on the course. But a 25 handicap? Heck, even a 15! It's nuts.
post #236 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Here we go again, saying handicap = distance, that is false. If so than the people i play againts who can't reach 200 yards off the tee should all be 20+ handicap. Nope they can kick my butt pretty well somedays and shoot 5-10 over par.
post #237 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
Here we go again, saying handicap = distance, that is false. If so than the people i play againts who can't reach 200 yards off the tee should all be 20+ handicap. Nope they can kick my butt pretty well somedays and shoot 5-10 over par.
I've played with those guys too, but the course can't play much longer than 6000 yds.

It is really important to hit the ball strait, and to work on your short game. But it's also true that the vast majority of amateurs (a group consisting primarily of mid and high cappers), would benefit the most from improved accuracy and distance off the tee.
post #238 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by max power View Post
I've played with those guys too, but the course can't play much longer than 6000 yds.

It is really important to hit the ball strait, and to work on your short game. But it's also true that the vast majority of amateurs (a group consisting primarily of mid and high cappers), would benefit the most from improved accuracy and distance off the tee.
handicap doesnt matter with distance. I play with a guy whos grandpa played for the colts as a defensive lineman. He is like a 15 handicap and drives the ball about 300 yards atleast, reachs long par 5s in two with ease.
post #239 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
Here we go again, saying handicap = distance, that is false. If so than the people i play againts who can't reach 200 yards off the tee should all be 20+ handicap. Nope they can kick my butt pretty well somedays and shoot 5-10 over par.
I disagree, there is a clear correlation and causation between handicap and driving distance. Anybody can hit the ball short, but it takes a good player to consistently hit the long ball. And that is precisely the argument, consistency. The one thing high handicappers don't have is consistent contact.
post #240 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by jamo View Post
I disagree, there is a clear correlation and causation between handicap and driving distance. Anybody can hit the ball short, but it takes a good player to consistently hit the long ball. And that is precisely the argument, consistency. The one thing high handicappers don't have is consistent contact.
Yes, and that's what people, time after time, just fail to realize. The ability to bring the club back to the right position time after time is the #1 factor in handicap, and yet it's one thing people don't seem to grasp. Handicap and distance are almost directly related. Pure contact equals distance. High handicappers are high handicappers because of the lack of pure contact (and I've seen loads of swings, high and low handicap, it's not hard to see who's who).

I have a friend who swings about 10 mph slower than me, but he's got an almost unbelievably good swing, and his average drive is just as far as mine. He's a 4 handicap, and he's nearly 60 years old. I can hit it longer, but I don't on average.
post #241 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
I'm going to have to agree with Harmonious. No way. Here's the thing:




Now, one of these guys we know for absolute certain hits his irons a long, long way, the other is in question. Compare the two for a second. Anything stand out?

Yeah, claim denied. Next.
Rugger says he hits his long iron pure 5 out of 10 attempts.

Re: How often do you hit it "pure"?
Depends on the club. Pitching wedge...probably 8 or 9/10. Longer irons..probably 5/10.
http://thesandtrap.com/forum/threads...l=1#post481594
post #242 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

I see that some people get confused between the following 2 different statements.

1. Handicap = Distance
2. Handicap and distance are correlated.

I think everybody agrees that the 1st is wrong but the 2nd is correct. If I have to guess the correlation coefficient, I would say 0.6.
post #243 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

I'm going to be as respectful as I can, as I'd like to get a sincere response from you.
I've been sincere the whole time, since I joined this site.

I'd like to know how you explain being a 25 handicap with these averages.
First, my handicap is estimated. I don't have enough legitimate rounds to have a real score.

You're gaming the MP32s, right?
Yep

So if you're a 25-handicap, the assumption would be that you don't always hit your irons in the sweet spot.
True

Would you say that's a fair assessment, or would you claim to be the rare exception who consistently ball strikes well with your irons, but somehow drops 1-2 strokes on and around 16 of 18 greens (3 and 4 putts? constantly flubbed chips?)?
Fair assessment. I also throw strokes away around the green

If you hit it 235 with an average-to-solid ball strike with your 4iron, I would expect you to be a handicap of no worse than the low teens.
Rereading I should not have used the word average, or at least have added some other descriptors. I average around those distances on average-to-pure contact, I lose probably 15-20 yards when I hit it thin. The likelihood of good to pure contact depends on the club. If it's a PW I pure it nearly every time. 4i maybe 6-7 of ten will I have good or better contact. The problem is I can't under club banking on poor contact. I've done that only to hit it pure and overshoot the green by 25 yards and loose by ball, which again adds a lot of strokes. Before my round yesterday I worked almost exclusively with my 4iron. Mishits were hitting the 220 green on the fly or close to it, good-to-pure contact was flying the 220 green no problem.

Again, it's an estimate. I shot 94 on a 147 course this past weekend. The day before that it was like 110 on a 143. I have several three puts per round, I blade chips at least once or twice a round and I have no feel for distance using a wedge within 20 feet. Sometimes I blast my driver but it's off line and goes into a tree line never to be found again

If I could hit it 250 with my 3iron on a solid-ball strike (I probably average about 205 or 210 max with my 3iron on solid ball-strikes, which tends to make most average people I play with swoon), I would never, ever pull out a driver or even a 3-wood unless I was trying to make the Tour or playing for money.
I play to get better, it's a challenge, and a challenge I enjoy. If I wanted to do something easy that I could get by with I'd do something else. I spray my driver a lot, that means shitty lies for 2nd shots, which sometimes means I'm putting for bogey as soon as I even get to the green.

Perhaps I'll video myself in a golf simulator. Are those accurate?
post #244 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
Perhaps I'll video myself in a golf simulator. Are those accurate?
Rugger, now that you are sincere, here is a way to shut up all those naysayers who doubt you hit the distances you claim. Go with your 2 handicap buddy to your local golf superstore (Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy, Edwin Watts, whatever) that has a golf simulator/launch monitor, the kind that gives you immediate data, such as clubhead speed, launch angle and projected distance. Go to one of the sales reps who hang out around the indoor range, most of them know quite a bit about golf, and ask whether their launch monitor gives honest, accurate results. Tell him that you want to hit a few shots on the launch monitor. They will no doubt agree, hoping you'll buy something from them.

Then....Have your 2 handicap buddy film your swing and, without stopping the camera, go over to the launch monitor and film a closeup of the results. No trick photography, just a continuous filming of your swing and then the results. To verify that the monitor is accurate, have your buddy hit a couple of shots while you do the same continuous filming of his swing and then the results, without stopping the camera. If your buddy can't make it, I'm sure the sales rep will film you. You, in turn could film his swing and results, just for comparison.

I bet if done honestly and accurately, the results would speak for themselves. If the launch monitor shows you hit your 4 iron 235 yards, you would probably convince many doubters. What do you say?
post #245 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
Rugger, now that you are sincere, here is a way to shut up all those naysayers who doubt you hit the distances you claim. Go with your 2 handicap buddy to your local golf superstore (Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy, Edwin Watts, whatever) that has a golf simulator/launch monitor, the kind that gives you immediate data, such as clubhead speed, launch angle and projected distance. Go to one of the sales reps who hang out around the indoor range, most of them know quite a bit about golf, and ask whether their launch monitor gives honest, accurate results. Tell him that you want to hit a few shots on the launch monitor. They will no doubt agree, hoping you'll buy something from them.

Then....Have your 2 handicap buddy film your swing and, without stopping the camera, go over to the launch monitor and film a closeup of the results. No trick photography, just a continuous filming of your swing and then the results. To verify that the monitor is accurate, have your buddy hit a couple of shots while you do the same continuous filming of his swing and then the results, without stopping the camera. If your buddy can't make it, I'm sure the sales rep will film you. You, in turn could film his swing and results, just for comparison.

I bet if done honestly and accurately, the results would speak for themselves. If the launch monitor shows you hit your 4 iron 235 yards, you would probably convince many doubters. What do you say?
Are those accurate? I read some stuff from google saying that they add quite a bit of distance usually.
post #246 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
Are those accurate? I read some stuff from google saying that they add quite a bit of distance usually.
theyre a good estimate to go by. my numbers were fairly similar to my rangefinder distances
post #247 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
I've been sincere the whole time, since I joined this site.



First, my handicap is estimated. I don't have enough legitimate rounds to have a real score.



Yep



True



Fair assessment. I also throw strokes away around the green



Rereading I should not have used the word average, or at least have added some other descriptors. I average around those distances on average-to-pure contact, I lose probably 15-20 yards when I hit it thin. The likelihood of good to pure contact depends on the club. If it's a PW I pure it nearly every time. 4i maybe 6-7 of ten will I have good or better contact. The problem is I can't under club banking on poor contact. I've done that only to hit it pure and overshoot the green by 25 yards and loose by ball, which again adds a lot of strokes. Before my round yesterday I worked almost exclusively with my 4iron. Mishits were hitting the 220 green on the fly or close to it, good-to-pure contact was flying the 220 green no problem.

Again, it's an estimate. I shot 94 on a 147 course this past weekend. The day before that it was like 110 on a 143. I have several three puts per round, I blade chips at least once or twice a round and I have no feel for distance using a wedge within 20 feet. Sometimes I blast my driver but it's off line and goes into a tree line never to be found again



I play to get better, it's a challenge, and a challenge I enjoy. If I wanted to do something easy that I could get by with I'd do something else. I spray my driver a lot, that means shitty lies for 2nd shots, which sometimes means I'm putting for bogey as soon as I even get to the green.

Perhaps I'll video myself in a golf simulator. Are those accurate?
Rugger,

I think you are sincere and telling the truth. But I don't think you are using the same terminology as others here. And that's what is causing the controversy.

For example, you claim to pure PW nearly every time. I have never heard of anyone who can do that. Even Tiger can't do that. The "pure" shot is probably not what you think it is. From your posts, it's apparent that you are going 100% after the ball. Yes, it may go miles but it's not a "pure" shot.

Same with distance. What you think is 300 is probably not the same 300 that others are talking about. When OP says 250 is a respectable carry distance, he probably means the ball flies in the air 250 yards and lands on the fairway more than half the time.
post #248 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by acegolfer View Post
2. Handicap and distance are correlated.
Mmmmmm... sort of. There is a correlation and a causation. When you develop a better swing, you make more solid contact, and you hit the ball further. Most of distance has little to do with strength, and all to do with technique. Everyone can think of plenty of counterexamples, sure, but I can also think of many many more true examples. Every wonder why the best golfers on the world also tend to be the longest? And why World Strongman guys suck at golf?

And I would say the correlation coefficient is higher, maybe .75ish, but that's pure speculation.
post #249 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by acegolfer View Post
Rugger,

I think you are sincere and telling the truth. But I don't think you are using the same terminology as others here. And that's what is causing the controversy.

For example, you claim to pure PW nearly every time. I have never heard of anyone who can do that. Even Tiger can't do that. The "pure" shot is probably not what you think it is. From your posts, it's apparent that you are going 100% after the ball. Yes, it may go miles but it's not a "pure" shot.

Same with distance. What you think is 300 is probably not the same 300 that others are talking about. When OP says 250 is a respectable carry distance, he probably means the ball flies in the air 250 yards and lands on the fairway more than half the time.


nah i think hes downright full of shit. i'll shut up once he puts that video up
post #250 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
Rereading I should not have used the word average, or at least have added some other descriptors. I average around those distances on average-to-pure contact, I lose probably 15-20 yards when I hit it thin. The likelihood of good to pure contact depends on the club.
Aha! So you are learning what average means!

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
I have several three puts per round, I blade chips at least once or twice a round and I have no feel for distance using a wedge within 20 feet.
So you lose about 5 strokes a round because to short game, that's not enough to make you a 25.

Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
Perhaps I'll video myself in a golf simulator. Are those accurate?
Just find you swing speed, Shank's program thing will do the math.
post #251 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
People always put their foot in it when they post a distance for a 60 degree wedge.
Ha! My average distance for my 60* wedge is about 15 yards. I don't think I've used it for anything above 25 yards so far.

Brandon
post #252 of 347

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by jamo View Post
Just find you swing speed, Shank's program thing will do the math.
Not only that, but I can find the absolute extremes of what that swing speed can achieve. For example, with a 100 mph swing, in Denver, you can carry it nearly 270 yards... if you use about a 7° driver and swing 6° up at it. Hehe.
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