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post #37 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Like others have said, people will also over estimate their "average." If someone catches a good one in the middle of July that rolls 45 yards and ends up around 285 then all of a sudden they are "averaging" that. That's not how it works. The fact is, there are not a lot of people capable of hitting the ball 300 yards, or even 250 yards for that matter. 200 yards is about the average carry for your typical bogey golfer.

There is a relationship between handicap and the distance you can hit the ball. I've yet to see any 20 handicaps who can get remotely close to 250 yards in the air.

There are exceptions to the rule and those people who hit it 300 do exist, but they are few and far between (even on the PGA Tour).

Moral of the story is that yes, 300 yards is a long, long way and most people simply don't have the physical ability to swing a club fast enough and accurately enough to hit it that far. 250+ is one hell of a drive more 99% of the golfers out there.
post #38 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
Just for fun, I've taken a 6,500 yard course, and used Google earth to measure a 300 yard drive on every hole.

Here's the distance (yards) you'll have into the green:

4 - 64
5 - 205
4 - 71
4 - 73
5 - 212
4 - 122
4 - 128

4 - 69
4 - 100
5 - 249
4 - 17
4 - 45
5 - 222
4 - 123

As you can see, every par 4 requires a pitching wedge or less. Hope all you 300 yard drivers are good at those 60 yard pitches.
I am 17, and in general, I do end up not hitting many middle irons on par fours. My average drive is around 280 with control. I have hit drives that measure 300+, but I am strong and do swing fast. However, most of the people I play with cannot hit much further than 220 with their drivers. It can actually be harder to play hitting this far, as trouble that is unreachable for most people becomes a big problem. Also, if you make a bad swing, the further you drive it the worse off you are. I think I will end up hitting a lot of three woods off the tee this season. Also, I play at sea level if that makes a difference to anyone.
post #39 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Obviously, most people exaggerate how far they can hit it. But I've seen guys not that great at golf, just young athletic guys crank balls out there 250+. Not always straight, but I've seen guys do it that I'm better than (and I'm not that good). The stats do indicate a correlation between distance off the tee and handicap, but there are definitely exceptions, if you can't putt you can't score, no matter how far you hit it. And like GoldenBlade said, the farther you hit it, the bigger that slice is and the more trouble you can get into.
post #40 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

i carry about 230 240 i thinks its good
post #41 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that to hit a drive 300 yards, you have to get it dead center of the clubface, with a very high swing speed. Now, how a high handicapper can hit the exact center of the clubface every single time with his driver, but then can't even make solid contact with the much easier to hit 1 iron, I don't know.

Here's a test. If you think you drive the ball 300, tee up a ball, and get an old 1 iron. Hit the 1 iron off the tee. If you can't hit that 1 iron consistently off the tee, then guess what? There's not a chance in hell you can hit the longer driver dead center often enough to hit it 300. A 1 iron off a tee is very easy compared to a driver, which is why so many pros used to use them to lay up with. The pros who hit their drivers 300 yards also have no trouble hitting a driver from the ground, but I've met precious few amateurs who can do that.

This is where the whole idea of a 15 handicap driving the ball 300 breaks down. The ability that it requires to strike a ball dead center with a golf club doesn't somehow magically appear with the driver. There's this mystique that a driver is so forgiving that even an off center strike can go 300 yards, but it's just not true. The tour pros who drive it 300+ are using specially made drivers that we cannot buy in the stores, they're using shorter shafts, and they're hitting the center of the face, every single time. If your driver has a big dark spot in the center of the face about 1" wide, then maybe you can hit it a long way, but if not, you're dreaming.

I remember Adam Scott hit a driver during the presidents cup, and it went like 240, and the announcer said, "I think he mishit it." The pros all have little spots right in the center of their clubfaces where the ball hits, and the area around it is pretty much untouched. For them to miss that tiny spot is rare. Adam Scott was in a funk, and he even blew an iron (a blade no less) about 40 yards offline. These guys are so good that the ones that we call "past it" or "finished" can still hit the ball pure and get around with a score in the low 70s. John Daly, who we make fun of as being done for, still shoots in the low 70s on courses that we'd be hitting 95s on. Bottom line, while putting and short game are key, no one ever made it to the PGA tour without a phenomenal swing. Don't BS yourself and pretend you could ever go up against these guys, you'll never win.
post #42 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that to hit a drive 300 yards, you have to get it dead center of the clubface, with a very high swing speed. Now, how a high handicapper can hit the exact center of the clubface every single time with his driver, but then can't even make solid contact with the much easier to hit 1 iron, I don't know.

Here's a test. If you think you drive the ball 300, tee up a ball, and get an old 1 iron. Hit the 1 iron off the tee. If you can't hit that 1 iron consistently off the tee, then guess what? There's not a chance in hell you can hit the longer driver dead center often enough to hit it 300. A 1 iron off a tee is very easy compared to a driver, which is why so many pros used to use them to lay up with. The pros who hit their drivers 300 yards also have no trouble hitting a driver from the ground, but I've met precious few amateurs who can do that.

This is where the whole idea of a 15 handicap driving the ball 300 breaks down. The ability that it requires to strike a ball dead center with a golf club doesn't somehow magically appear with the driver. There's this mystique that a driver is so forgiving that even an off center strike can go 300 yards, but it's just not true. The tour pros who drive it 300+ are using specially made drivers that we cannot buy in the stores, they're using shorter shafts, and they're hitting the center of the face, every single time. If your driver has a big dark spot in the center of the face about 1" wide, then maybe you can hit it a long way, but if not, you're dreaming.
what?!? i'm sorry, but a driver is MUCH easier than hitting a 1 iron off the tee.
post #43 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
what?!? i'm sorry, but a driver is MUCH easier than hitting a 1 iron off the tee.
Nope, not at all. Longer shaft, less control. If it's easier to hit a driver, than you're missing the center of the face, and the driver is forgiving your mistake.
post #44 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that to hit a drive 300 yards, you have to get it dead center of the clubface, with a very high swing speed. Now, how a high handicapper can hit the exact center of the clubface every single time with his driver, but then can't even make solid contact with the much easier to hit 1 iron, I don't know.

Here's a test. If you think you drive the ball 300, tee up a ball, and get an old 1 iron. Hit the 1 iron off the tee. If you can't hit that 1 iron consistently off the tee, then guess what? There's not a chance in hell you can hit the longer driver dead center often enough to hit it 300. A 1 iron off a tee is very easy compared to a driver, which is why so many pros used to use them to lay up with. The pros who hit their drivers 300 yards also have no trouble hitting a driver from the ground, but I've met precious few amateurs who can do that.

This is where the whole idea of a 15 handicap driving the ball 300 breaks down. The ability that it requires to strike a ball dead center with a golf club doesn't somehow magically appear with the driver. There's this mystique that a driver is so forgiving that even an off center strike can go 300 yards, but it's just not true. The tour pros who drive it 300+ are using specially made drivers that we cannot buy in the stores, they're using shorter shafts, and they're hitting the center of the face, every single time. If your driver has a big dark spot in the center of the face about 1" wide, then maybe you can hit it a long way, but if not, you're dreaming.

I remember Adam Scott hit a driver during the presidents cup, and it went like 240, and the announcer said, "I think he mishit it." The pros all have little spots right in the center of their clubfaces where the ball hits, and the area around it is pretty much untouched. For them to miss that tiny spot is rare. Adam Scott was in a funk, and he even blew an iron (a blade no less) about 40 yards offline. These guys are so good that the ones that we call "past it" or "finished" can still hit the ball pure and get around with a score in the low 70s. John Daly, who we make fun of as being done for, still shoots in the low 70s on courses that we'd be hitting 95s on. Bottom line, while putting and short game are key, no one ever made it to the PGA tour without a phenomenal swing. Don't BS yourself and pretend you could ever go up against these guys, you'll never win.
1 irons have a much smaller face, much less gear effect, a COG that is higher and closer to the face, and much less MOI. If you've never hit a 1 iron, I've got one. I could make a video of me hitting it. It is not easy at all. Tiger hits the ball 300, yet he (and every other Tour player) doesn't even use a 1 iron.

Also, most Tour player are using off the shelf drivers. It's much harder to manufacture a driver specifically for someone than a wedge.
post #45 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by jamo View Post
1 irons have a much smaller face, much less gear effect, a COG that is higher and closer to the face, and much less MOI. If you've never hit a 1 iron, I've got one. I could make a video of me hitting it. It is not easy at all. Tiger hits the ball 300, yet he (and every other Tour player) doesn't even use a 1 iron.

Also, most Tour player are using off the shelf drivers. It's much harder to manufacture a driver specifically for someone than a wedge.
But a 1 iron is easier to hit the center of the face with than a driver. A driver is merely more forgiving. Tiger used a 1 iron for a long time, and a 2 iron after that. While most of those clubs are gone, the point is that, if you're really, truly hitting the center of the face, every time, than a 1 iron should be just as easy to hit. The problem is, we're not.
post #46 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
...and the driver is forgiving your mistake.
Right... and what part of that makes it more DIFFICULT than hitting a 1 iron?

If the point you are trying to make is that a 1 iron is more difficult to hit than a driver BECAUSE it has a smaller face... than that make sense... otherwise, your logic is backwards, IMO. Saying a driver is more difficult to hit but is more forgiving is a contradictory statement. The forgiveness of the driver is what MAKES it easier to hit than a 1 iron... otherwise TaylorMade, Nike, Callaway, Cleveland, Titleist, etc. would ALL be mass producing 1 irons and not drivers.

CY
post #47 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
But a 1 iron is easier to hit the center of the face with than a driver. A driver is merely more forgiving. Tiger used a 1 iron for a long time, and a 2 iron after that. While most of those clubs are gone, the point is that, if you're really, truly hitting the center of the face, every time, than a 1 iron should be just as easy to hit. The problem is, we're not.
Then why don't any Tour players use a 1 iron? Why don't you use a 1 iron?
post #48 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Fairway_CY View Post
Right... and what part of that makes it more DIFFICULT than hitting a 1 iron?

If the point you are trying to make is that a 1 iron is more difficult to hit than a driver BECAUSE it has a smaller face... than that make sense... otherwise, your logic is backwards, IMO. Saying a driver is more difficult to hit but is more forgiving is a contradictory statement. The forgiveness of the driver is what MAKES it easier to hit than a 1 iron... otherwise TaylorMade, Nike, Callaway, Cleveland, Titleist, etc. would ALL be mass producing 1 irons and not drivers.

CY
You're confusing forgiveness with control. Forgiveness is what allows an off center hit to still play well. These guys who claim to hit it 300+ would need such precision control that they would have no problem hitting a 1 iron from a tee, because all of the arguments about it being a smaller face and a higher COG are totally irrelevant when the club is struck perfectly. A 1 iron is just as easy to hit as a wedge when it's struck dead center of the face, but much harder to hit when it's not.

That's where the difference lies. The result of a bad swing is better with a club that's more forgiving, but that doesn't mean you hit it any better.
post #49 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by jamo View Post
Then why don't any Tour players use a 1 iron? Why don't you use a 1 iron?
Many switched to a 5 wood for the better stopping power, and because even tour players like forgivness. The British Open still sees a lot of long irons in use however. The real issue is that the numbers on irons changed. The old 1 iron is now the same as some 3 irons. Many tour players still use 3 irons.
post #50 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post
You're confusing forgiveness with control. Forgiveness is what allows an off center hit to still play well.
I know what you're saying... and you're right. If you can hit a 1 iron with consistency, you MIGHT be able to hit 300 yard drives because that's what required (consistency with hitting the driver dead center)...

But the way I'm reading what you're saying (and others too, it seems) is that you're saying a 1 iron is easier to hit. It's simply not true. If it were, like others pointed out... tour pros would be doing it instead of playing drivers. Even a tour player (who has top-notch control) will tell you that the forgiveness outweighs the control of the 1 iron. THAT is what makes it easier to hit... KNOWING that a mishit will still produce a somewhat decent shot... whereas a 1 iron mishit could end up anywhere because of the lack of forgiveness.

Either way... I understand what you're saying. You're 100% correct. If a guy can hit a 1 iron with consistency... there's the POSSIBILITY he can average a 300 yard drive... but without hitting the center of the clubface EVERY time... there's no way someone is averaging 300 yards. Not gonna dispute that...

CY
post #51 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by bunkerputt View Post
I was at the range today getting back into golf shape for the spring, and took some googleearth measurements prior to heading out. The back fence was at 260 and I think, though can't confirm empirically, that it was playing uphill a bit, though I don't think it would make it play more than 265. I sat there and watched a whole bunch of people for a couple of hours and not one of them even came anywhere near the back fence. It's crazy how short people actually hit the ball in reality. If you can really (not on the internet) carry 250+ (don't post and tell me, I don't care), that's pretty damn respectable. Distance is obviously not holding you back. What's really funny is that I heard a group behind me talking about how they were hitting a flag at 165 (actually 125) with a 5-iron when one guy said you should be using a 9-iron from 165. My buddy told me that on the Ray Romano version of the Haney project, Ray was hitting his driver about 220 and Hank Haney said he's got the distance to shoot in the 70s. I tend to think he was right.
My favorite golf quote: "Its not about how far, its about how many."

What's funny to me in relation to your observation, is that this game really has little to do with how far someone can hit the ball. The idea is to get it to the hole in the least amount of strokes. That's what makes the game fun, at least for me, not how far I can hit the ball. Although ripping into a shot sure is fun too.
post #52 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

The whole driving distance thing is funny. I am 6'2", 280 lbs., so people see me step up on the 1st tee and assume that I'm going to rip it at least 250. I haven't done the math, but I honestly think that my average drive, carry + roll, is less than 210- and those are just the ones that stay in the fairway. The ability to hit the ball a long way has nothing to do with girth or strength, but everything to do with hitting the ball with the sweet spot of the club and swing speed. The longest drive I have hit and measured with GPS was a total of 275- that was a freaky shot, on a dry day, which I pulled just off the fairway. If I'm having a great day with the driver, I will hit a handful of drives 235 or so, and the others between 200 and 220.

I am starting to figure out that I can card much better scores when I don't worry about my driving distance. When I focus on controling my drives and getting them to stay on or near the fairway, well, it's obvious what will happen...
post #53 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Originally Posted by Ben View Post
My favorite golf quote: "Its not about how far, its about how many."

What's funny to me in relation to your observation, is that this game really has little to do with how far someone can hit the ball. The idea is to get it to the hole in the least amount of strokes. That's what makes the game fun, at least for me, not how far I can hit the ball. Although ripping into a shot sure is fun too.
I think the better you get as a player, the more you realize and embace this idea. Like everyone else, I used to try to hit every shot a ton and my scores would suffer. But hey, I hit that last one a LONG way so that's all that matters, right? As I've matured and realized I've realized that the game is won or lost around the green. I'm shorter now than I used to be, but I'm about 12 shots better now than I used to be too. I'll take the lower score any day.
post #54 of 353

Re: 250 yards is a respectable carry distance

Didn't you also say that it was on the range, and I think it's like range balls are around 10-20% less distance than normal balls? So if they actually were hitting it to the fence, then they'd be actually hitting it around 280-300 yards with a normal ball. I don't think the average golfer hits it that far?

But as for me, I TRY and hit it as straight as possible. When I do, I get about 250-260 carry and about 10-20 yards of roll (not always on sweet spot). On a shot where I know a big drive will get me a lot of extra yardage, and a good wide fairway, then I'll unleash and maybe get a good 310 out of it. It's only because my swing speed on those shots average about 112 (unleashed shots). That 300 yard drive counts exactly as much as that 3 foot putt.
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