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Forging Process Differences...

mutadayen
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mutadayen Well Established Member

mutadayen

I'm trying to get myself educated on the forging process and what that means. I initially had a question on the differences between the different metals used (1020/1025/1030) but I found that its the amount of carbon in the steel (1020 is .20 carbon, etc). 1020 would be the softest of the three metals from what i've read.

What i'm now trying to understand, and can't really get a good understanding of, is the forging process. I read the Mizuno's grain flow forging process takes 4 steps so the metals more uniform. I've also read more on Bridgestone's to where they use something called endo, but no one offers any decent description. I'm trying to understanding two things which are:

1.) what is forging (I thought it was metal melted, tempered, and cooled using some process but I think my take on it wrong)

2.) What are the differences in the forging process for each company (Mizuno, Callaway, Nike, TM, etc)

Any insight would be great...

Nike VR S Covert Tour Driver 2.0, 8.5* S
Nike VR S Covert Tour 3-Wood (15*) S
Nike VR Forged Split Cavity (2-5)

Nike VR Forged TW Blades (6-PW)

Titleist Vokey SM4 54* Wedge

Nike VR X3X Wedge 58*

Nike Method Core 1 Putter

Titleist ProV1

"Hakuna Matata - It means no worries..."

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ry1808 Established Member

ry1808

I always thought forging was when you faked a document, i'll get my coat....

No, you are pretty much right, it is a compression technique.

As for different manufacturers, I was led to believe that only a few factories in the world make forged golf clubs so techniques to not vary too much between manufacturers, but I could again be talking rubbish!

From the top:

R9 TP Driver Stiff 9.5deg
R9 TP 4-Wood Stiff 17deg
X-Forged Prototype 3-9 Stiff (rifle flighted) 48deg, 52deg, 56deg, 60deg CG12 Wedges Newport Longneck TeI3 One Black

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Shanks A Million Great Member

Shanks A Million

1.) what is forging (I thought it was metal melted, tempered, and cooled using some process but I think my take on it wrong)

Forging means hammering an ingot of metal into shape. Casting is the pouring of liquid metal into a mold. That's what the two terms mean.

Forgetting for a second that different metals are used, forging is considered better because it aligns the grain structure of the steel. Steel is crystalline in structure, so when you align it, it becomes much more ductile, and much less brittle. When you cast metal, the structure is random, so the metal is not as ductile, and it will break much easier if you try to bend it. Because of this, forged clubs are much easier to bend, and can be bent a lot more, and more often. Samurai swords are a good example of forging. Because the grain is so well aligned, they are extremely durable, flexible, and incredibly strong. But in golf clubs, what's also important (and maybe most important) is the metal used. Forged clubs are made from softer carbon steel, while cast clubs are made from hard stainless steel. Clubs can be cast from carbon steel, but they are still not going to be as bendable or as sound as true forged clubs. Vokeys are cast from carbon steel, for example. As far as feel goes, the metal is more important. As far as bending goes, the method and metal are important.
2.) What are the differences in the forging process for each company (Mizuno, Callaway, Nike, TM, etc)

Really, I don't think it's anything more than advertising hype. The only real exception is Cleveland, who uses a process called "form forging" where they cast the club in rough shape, then hammer it into its final shape. It's not quite as good as a true forged club.

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spitz20 Well Established Member

spitz20

casting is garbage....i wouldnt play anything but forged myself.

Superlight Stand Bag
909D2 9.5° Diamana S
909F2 15.5° Diamana S
909F2 18.5° Diamana S
AP2 Project X 5.5 3-PW Vokey Spin Milled 52° 56° 60° Studio Select Newport 2 Pro V1Home Course - http://www.huronoaks.com (Home of Mike Weir)

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ry1808 Established Member

ry1808

casting is garbage....i wouldnt play anything but forged myself.

As of yesterday I agree, I have never hit a forget club properly for a whole round before yesterday. Amazing feel, totally out of this world. i can't wait for my irons to arrive, shipping has been screwed though!

From the top:

R9 TP Driver Stiff 9.5deg
R9 TP 4-Wood Stiff 17deg
X-Forged Prototype 3-9 Stiff (rifle flighted) 48deg, 52deg, 56deg, 60deg CG12 Wedges Newport Longneck TeI3 One Black

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spitz20 Well Established Member

spitz20

As of yesterday I agree, I have never hit a forget club properly for a whole round before yesterday. Amazing feel, totally out of this world. i can't wait for my irons to arrive, shipping has been screwed though!

yes shipping sux....waiting for my new 909d2..ordered it last thurs...not in a big panic yet but i feel it coming lol

Superlight Stand Bag
909D2 9.5° Diamana S
909F2 15.5° Diamana S
909F2 18.5° Diamana S
AP2 Project X 5.5 3-PW Vokey Spin Milled 52° 56° 60° Studio Select Newport 2 Pro V1Home Course - http://www.huronoaks.com (Home of Mike Weir)

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NI4NI Dedicated Member

NI4NI

yes shipping sux....waiting for my new 909d2..ordered it last thurs...not in a big panic yet but i feel it coming lol

My golfing buddy's college son bought the 909d2, and used it this Sunday in our foursome. Holy bleep - that driver is the bomb - long and piercing - it's almost too long on some holes (he outdrove two slight doglegs into the rough and woods (had to be 270+ carry, both downhill and with the wind). The kid is big, and the drives were out there. Have fun

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spitz20 Well Established Member

spitz20

My golfing buddy's college son bought the 909d2, and used it this Sunday in our foursome. Holy bleep - that driver is the bomb - long and piercing - it's almost too long on some holes (he outdrove two slight doglegs into the rough and woods (had to be 270+ carry, both downhill and with the wind). The kid is big, and the drives were out there. Have fun

haha good to hear, ive heard mixed reactions about the driver however ive heard more positive then negative...i will soon find out :D

Superlight Stand Bag
909D2 9.5° Diamana S
909F2 15.5° Diamana S
909F2 18.5° Diamana S
AP2 Project X 5.5 3-PW Vokey Spin Milled 52° 56° 60° Studio Select Newport 2 Pro V1Home Course - http://www.huronoaks.com (Home of Mike Weir)

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walfice Dedicated Member

walfice

casting is garbage....i wouldnt play anything but forged myself.

Better throw out those vokeys then.

adams.gif Speedline fast 10 9.5˚
adams.gif Speedline fast 10 15˚
adams.gif A7 17˚
adams.gif Idea Pro 3-PW
mizuno.gif MP T-11 52˚, MP T-10 58˚  cameron.gif Red X  titleist.gif NXT
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spitz20 Well Established Member

spitz20

Better throw out those vokeys then.

did i say anything about wedges..i was talking about iron sets....please remove yourself from the thread.

Thank you, good day

Superlight Stand Bag
909D2 9.5° Diamana S
909F2 15.5° Diamana S
909F2 18.5° Diamana S
AP2 Project X 5.5 3-PW Vokey Spin Milled 52° 56° 60° Studio Select Newport 2 Pro V1Home Course - http://www.huronoaks.com (Home of Mike Weir)

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walfice Dedicated Member

walfice

You said 'casting is garbage....i wouldnt play anything but forged myself'. I assumed 'anything' meant 'any' club. My mind reading skills aren't what they used to be, sorry.
adams.gif Speedline fast 10 9.5˚
adams.gif Speedline fast 10 15˚
adams.gif A7 17˚
adams.gif Idea Pro 3-PW
mizuno.gif MP T-11 52˚, MP T-10 58˚  cameron.gif Red X  titleist.gif NXT
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bIGwIRE Well Established Member

bIGwIRE

Better throw out those vokeys then.

Lol, my thought also.

To the original post, here is a link to some very basic info, and here is the wikipedia basic info on a common form of club forging. (Cleveland golf's form forging is basically this) Like others have said above, the real issue is in the metal that is used. Different metals and alloys will all feel different no matter how they were made. The difference in feel from cast to forged is so minute that you won't be able to tell. There has been a few disscusions on this forum on which is "better", and, if you can objectively sift through the opinions, they are worth the time to look up and read.
http://www.orchardsateggharbor.com/
http://www.idlewildgolfclub.com/
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rego Member

rego

i have mizuno mp-60s and my wedges are vokeys, was thinking of getting mizuno wedges next which are forged.

my 60 vokey gets a fair workout and is about due to be replaced, im wondering if anyone out there can tell me how quickly mizuno forged wedges wear out.

i dont think my mp-60s wear badly as what people make out forges to wear, some people make it sound as if they are going to be hacked out and unusable after 3 rounds. aside from my putter i think my 60 wedge gets the most use so its naturally going to wear out quicker, any past experinces welcome, thanks
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kennay92 Great Member

kennay92

i have mizuno mp-60s and my wedges are vokeys, was thinking of getting mizuno wedges next which are forged.

*off topic post*

im common to you, i use my 60* most of any club probably. and its a cast club i bought from academy for like 15 bucks, i think its actually golfsmith club(its says it on the bottom) and im incredibly surprised how long its helped up. Grooves are still real deep. Sorry, just had to tell someone.

:cobra: Speed ld-f 10.5 Stiff
:snake_eyes: 3 & 5 Woods
:adams:A4 3 hybrid
:bridgestone: J33 Forged Irons 4-pw
:ping: 50th Aniv. Karsten Ansr Putter56*, 60* wedges

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Shorty Super Member

Shorty

casting is garbage....i wouldnt play anything but forged myself.

It's pretty hard to imagine a more ill informed and ignorant comment than this. Firstly, as has been pointed out a million times here, there is no difference in feel. Secondly, why don't all those major winners who won with cast clubs refuse to play cast irons? Are you saying that Choi and Westwood, for example, are stupid? Mickelson played cast Titleist irons (731PM). You can choose not to play "anything but forged" while guys who would beat you by 30 shots can manage top win majors with them. Funny that.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

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