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old vs. new

TarDawg

By TarDawg,
in Golf Talk

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TarDawg Well Established Member

TarDawg

So I overheard a "Tiger Hater" the other day saying the only reason he is any good is because of the equipment and that if he had to play with the equipment that those before him did (i.e. wooden fairway woods, mashies, feathered golf balls?!?!?!?) that he'd be rubbish. Not wanting to get into it with a stranger I thought to myself "if you have a great golf swing it doesn't matter what your hitting with. You're still going to be good"

The whole generation argument to me is silly anyway. We will never know if Tiger in his prime would have beaten Jack or Arny or Snead or Jones on a regular basis. Just like we will never know if the 2005 Super Bowl Champions could have beaten the 1965 champs.

Curious on you guys/gals opinions taking the person to whom the original comment was about out of the equation.

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SQ 5000 10.5

SQ Sumo 3 wood
MP-32 3-PWGolden Bear Gap Wedge SV Sand Wedge MP T Lob WedgeYes Golf Callie Putter

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mattttt25 Well Established Member

mattttt25

I love/hate this argument when it comes up with any sport. Absolutely no doubt, the athletes of today would crush those of years past. That applies to every sport out there. So to answer your post, Tiger wouldn't just beat Jack, he would crush him.

CARBITE Putter

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Randy4h Well Established Member

Randy4h

It's impossible to compares sports eras. Equipment, course conditions, nutrition, fitness training, all of these are very different now than even 10 years ago, let alone 25 or 50.

My feeling is the elite athletes of each generation would be roughly equivalent. Jones=Hogan=Nicklaus=Woods.

It would be interesting to have todays young guns play a tournament using the equipment of the 60's (persimmon woods, balata balls) and play with the course conditions back then (shaggy greens, unsanded divots).

Driver 905S, V2 stiff shaft
3-Wood 906F2 13 degree, V2 stiff
Hybrid 585H 21 degree, Aldila VS Proto
Irons (4-PW) MP-57, Rifle 5.5
SW & LW spin milledPutter TracyBall Pro V-1

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Randy4h Well Established Member

Randy4h

I love/hate this argument when it comes up with any sport. Absolutely no doubt, the athletes of today would crush those of years past. That applies to every sport out there. So to answer your post, Tiger wouldn't just beat Jack, he would crush him.

Obviously you never saw Jack Nicklaus play.

Driver 905S, V2 stiff shaft
3-Wood 906F2 13 degree, V2 stiff
Hybrid 585H 21 degree, Aldila VS Proto
Irons (4-PW) MP-57, Rifle 5.5
SW & LW spin milledPutter TracyBall Pro V-1

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tws1098 Dedicated Member

tws1098

I think golf is a little different than other sports because football and other similar sports have become their life, where years ago guys still had to have another job. The money and training time put into sports today is outlandish at the very least and is ultimately the reason I would argue for current athletes being superior in most sports . In a game where experience and the mind play such an important role, I think Tiger and Jack would be a good match.
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mfgorilla Established Member

mfgorilla

I love/hate this argument when it comes up with any sport. Absolutely no doubt, the athletes of today would crush those of years past. That applies to every sport out there. So to answer your post, Tiger wouldn't just beat Jack, he would crush him.

Yeah, Tiger today would probably beat Nicklaus in his prime maybe 7 times out of 10. If Jack had today's technology and training, I think it would probably be pretty even. The main stregnth for both of them isn't really their physical game, although it is very good for both of them, but in their mental game and being able to stay focused and composed to the end of the tournament.

It's impossible to compares sports eras. Equipment, course conditions, nutrition, fitness training, all of these are very different now than even 10 years ago, let alone 25 or 50.

All things being equal, the dominant players in any given would likely be dominant in any other era.

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Fatphil Dedicated Member

Fatphil

I compare the '72 Dolphins to the '09 Detroit Lions...Lions would kick their ass. Probably '09 U of Alabama, Texas or Florida would beat them also. Agree physical training is a big issue doing cross generational fantasy sports.
Nevertheless, Tiger was born in 1975 so he did grow up playing persimmon.
My Take:
Driving - Nicklaus
Irons - Push
Wedge - Woods
Putting - Push
I think they would tie.

On another impossible note, Randy's comment about seeing todays players hitting the old stuff...I would love to see the look on Bobby Jones' face hitting a ProV1 off a 460cc driver...
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Randy4h Well Established Member

Randy4h

I compare the '72 Dolphins to the '09 Detroit Lions...Lions would kick their ass. Probably '09 U of Alabama, Texas or Florida would beat them also.

Of course they would. The Dolphins are all over 60 years old now.

Driver 905S, V2 stiff shaft
3-Wood 906F2 13 degree, V2 stiff
Hybrid 585H 21 degree, Aldila VS Proto
Irons (4-PW) MP-57, Rifle 5.5
SW & LW spin milledPutter TracyBall Pro V-1

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Fatphil Dedicated Member

Fatphil

Of course they would. The Dolphins are all over 60 years old now.

dickweed

but eh that course you play looks really cool..my daughter goes to FSU so I pass by there about 10 times a year. Can anyone play there?
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mcotter Established Member

mcotter

Obviously you never saw Jack Nicklaus play.

This is interesting. I am from Jack neck of the woods and not a fan. Wish I was, but Jack is really quite a prick in person. I loved when he tries to bait snead into entering this argument by asking/leading him with the question, "how much better would you be with the technology of today?". Snead smiled and said "Not at all Jack, I always hit it on the sweet spot. I didn't need more forgiveness". Jack was caught offguard. Jack was very very good, but I agree Tiger is better, and certainly more dominant.
Driver: Cobra ZL 3 Wood: Cleveland Launcher War Club: Burner Titanium Raylor 21degree Hybrid: Bobby Jones 24 4-PW: Ping i3's Wedges:Mizuno MP T-10 White Satin 52, 56, 60 Putter: 15 year old Odyssey Rossi Blade. Ball: Bridgestone e5 Swing Oil: Grey Goose, always in the bag.
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Chilli Dipper Great Member

Chilli Dipper

When this argument is brought up about golfers, it's a push. Great players adjust with different equipment and conditions. Tiger Woods would do well in the 1960s, and Jack Nicklaus would be fine today.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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Dub Great Member

Dub

Take the equipment out of it as golfers of each era are playing against the field who are similarly equiped.

I think the talent would prevail from any era to any other given an acclimation period with the gear.

It would be interesting to see our modern champs duel it out on a classic venue using early gear on Thursday from the late 1800's, Friday from the 1930's, Saturday from the 1970's and Sunday with their modern gear.
909D Comp 9.5* (house MATRIX OZIK XCON-6)
Burner Superfast 3 & 5 woods (house MATRIX OZIK XCON-4.8)
G15 Hybrid 23* (AWT shaft)
G5 5 iron-PW-46*, UW-50*, SW-54 & LW-58 (AWT shaft)
Studio Select Newport 2 Mid SlantGrips: PING cords & Golf Pride New Decade Multi-Coumpound Bag: C-130...
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RC Great Member

RC

Something intriguing over the years is Bob Beamon's 1968 long jump in the Olympics. Obviously, training and knowledge in 1968 was not close to today's, yet all these years later Beamon's jump has been exceeded by only 0.57 percent (2 inches). Mike Powell jumped 29' 4.5 " in 1991. In most sports the bar has been elevated a lot more than this amazingly small increment. To compare, a 300 yard drive in 1968 (which Nicklaus would often do) would only be 301.7 yards if the same incremental improvement was applied to golf. Obviously balls and equipment have made a huge impact on golf distances. In my case, I added about 10 yards from 1968 until 2007, yet got about 40 years older. Various other comparisons say the drivers of today are 27 to 29 yards longer. This says nothing about Tiger and Jack, but I find it interesting.

RC

 

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James_Black Great Member

James_Black

read the huge Jack V Tiger thread, this has been discussed over and over again.

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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goblue107501 Great Member

goblue107501

I have always thought these comparisons were silly. Things evolve and get better the more we use them, the more they are studied and improved. That is just the way it is. No different with golf.

The big gripe I have with golf comparisons and equipment is how the courses have changed. Yes, today's equipment is much better. It is easier to score using a titanium driver than a wood one. But as the equipment has changed, so have the courses. The courses that pros play on today are MUCH harder than they were 20-30-40 years ago. They are longer and tighter and the rough is taller and thicker. They got that way because the equipment outgrew the courses. So in a sense, the if you compare equipment v. courses, it is a similar comparison. Player for player, course for course, era for era. You can make a comparison at Augusta on 1965 to 2005 because the equipment and courses have changed with each other. If you look at the scores, has the player gotten better or worse?

I will judge my rounds much more by the quality of my best shots than the acceptability of my worse ones.

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saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

For me, i have to say... when it comes this arguement you must take into account what if they had the same technology. Tiger has a huge advantage because he hits Nike clubs and golf balls specifically made for him. To me if Bobby Jones had todays clubs, i think he would dominate this game. The way he putted, the feel he had for the game.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: :titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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FHopper Dedicated Member

FHopper

For me the rationale to apply is this, are swimmers faster than they used to be? That is the one sport where there have been no changes. Yes today's swimmers are faster, therefore today's athletes are better, therefore, Tiger wins.

Current Bag
Ogio Synchro cart
'07 Burner Driver, 3 Fairway, and Rescue 5
Early Titelist Cavities
200 56, Spin milled 60 , Rossa  Suzuka

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