I don't know. Dave wanted to bitch slap some common sense into you on Facebook, which is why I started that message thread.
Yea, what Erik said. Feel a big arm lift and cock the club up faster, feeling a steeper shaft plane.
Shot in the dark question: How much do you use your right hand to cock the club on the backswing? Are you a left hand dominant wrist cocker?
Because when I started using my right hand more to cock the club, I found it to be easier. Shot in the dark feel tip.
If my wife's been trying that unsuccessfully for 15 years, I'm not sure what chance he has!
Got to be honest, I'm not unhappy with where I am, even knowing how far away that still is from where I'd ideally like to be. Before I went to see Quint* last year, I'd never hit anything but low pulls or pull cuts in my golfing life. And now I can hit up off the tee and still see a nice little draw. And although not far by objective standards, I'm at least getting it out there further than I ever have before. Improvement is improvement and, on the 6200 - 6400 yard courses we play down here, I now have a decent chance of shooting around par if I putt OK -- which is pretty much the limit of my ambitions.
Question then is whether you can keep improving by increments-- or whether you need to decide you've polished the turd as shiny as it can get, nuke the site from orbit and suffer the fallout.
(*Van Der Berg. Current 5SK, former Leadbetter & MORAD, coaches quite a few SA pros. Awesome dude.)
Stretch, for a little while, separate your right-hand index finger (trigger finger) a little on the grip so you can really feel it helping to cock the club up, but at about A3 you want it to feel very little pressure (i.e. because the shaft is more vertical and not "resting on" that finger quite so much).
I think you could pretty quickly make the change to a more upright swing. What good is shooting around par if you can shoot 65 on those little tracks? :D
What Erik said and a few visuals to add to making the exaggerated feels, nothing new to you but can't hurt. From your perspective hitting the ball the club is going to look like it hinges up at a 45 degree angle, maybe even more extreme than that. Thinking of a clock, median line of the body is 12, so like you're loading it at 1 or 1:30. Can also use the Two Ball Drill, place another ball behind the ball you're hitting, maybe about a foot. So the club has to ascend fast, that's actually how the drill was first introduced to me, for the takeaway.
Nice comments from Erik and Mike.
Stretch, this is just a guess, but I'm willing to bet that the feel for you to get the backswing more "up" in general is going to be pretty extreme. Like, when you do get the feel for it and change the picture, you'll probably say something like "wow.... feel is so not real. I can't believe I have to do it that much."
Agree with Erik that you can adjust to this change fairly quickly once you get it. Partly because your rhythm and tempo is so good.
From my own experience, I'm trying to get more "up" right now too, its just that I don't have to go as far with it as you do. That said, going over my swings from today, I need to feel like I'm doing it a lot more, I think.... I probably need to feel like my hands just go upwards and thats it, with a ton of early wrist cock and a shaft that feels like its 90 degrees vertical or something. I'll see what Mike says to me about this after he reviews my swings, but it wouldn't shock me if that's what I need to feel. I'll find out the next time I hit balls.
What Erik said and a few visuals to add to making the exaggerated feels, nothing new to you but can't hurt. From your perspective hitting the ball the club is going to look like it hinges up at a 45 degree angle, maybe even more extreme than that. Thinking of a clock, median line of the body is 12, so like you're loading it at 1 or 1:30.
For whatever reason, I missed this comment when I first read it. That's even more extreme than I was thinking. I'd do this.
Think i know what to do here.
What you should try is:
Little wider stands
and little more flex in the knees.
Now for making a good backswing ( to flat at this moment )
Take normal setup with tips above:
Now bent the wrists till shaft is parallel to the ground.
Now complete the backswing with turning hips and shoulders
make sure your left shoulder is turned under your chin.
this is how the top of the backswing should feel. right now your in the
proper position to attack the ball.
Stretch, good to see you're still working at it. Question, have you done any TPI / fitness assessments? I only ask as you look very fit - but find it interesting that you aren't able to trace more of a vertical arc on the backswing. I'm curious if you have tried getting a baseline on your flexibility and strength?
Instructors (and others chiming in here), if you think Stretch doesn't know how to swing the golf club, then I don't know what to say? The guy knows a thing or two (moreso than most) about the mechnaics - but he still isn't able to nail this piece. Therefore, I think my question is fair. Can he make the move necessary to support the load of the club?
I would like to see him make a practice swing - with no ball - just taking the club back and up as vertical as he can with the left, loading PP4 across his chest - think Back and UP - not IN. I'm wondering if he has the very flat back swing because of a lack of flexibility or strength?
When you have arms as long as Stretch - combined with the weight of the golf club moving at high speeds (that is one long ass lever) - it is a fair question. That left and right shoulder socket is going to need to be stronger to support the load and force applied to it.
Yeah Beach, I'm out of shape but not that out of shape.
Despite appearances, progress is still being made. In the last few months I've cleaned up my grip, which has helped my clubface control, and established a consistently positive club path. I'm hitting the ball higher and my right-to-left shot cone is quite a bit tighter than my left-to-right one ever was. Now it's really about adding speed -- cocking the wrists faster in the backswing and recocking them faster into the finish, getting the right elbow folding faster to keep it in front of the shirt seam, getting the arms as a unit swinging faster in general. My hip speed is fine, as are my kinematics overall I'm told, although my curve is slightly right-shifted (i.e. peak speed is at impact rather than slightly before, as the model would prescribe).
None of this is meant to sound defensive. Just saying that I've now been working on this long enough to understand that there are precious few quantum leaps. Even when you clearly understand what you need to do, the actual application of that knowledge is an incremental -- and often frustrating -- process.
But hey, if it was easy, it wouldn't be interesting, would it?
No great progress to report. Going to get to spend two days next week with Quint again, so hopefully some good things will come of that. Do feel like I've finally got my setup somewhere nearer to a decent, functional posture. These are with the same 6 iron, today at left and a while ago at right.
Please note that, just to humor Bunkerputt, I got a new silly hat.