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rolling wrists to square up clubface...

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
so apparently this is what i have to do to hit a golf shot that isn't a fade. this is really pissing me off. i'm happy with pretty much everything in my swing right now except impact, which is what counts. i've got good tempo, my swing is in to out, my head stays behind the ball, i'm swinging through the ball, my club is on plane, but i'm still managing to cut across the ball somehow. don't get me wrong, i've got good flight and trajectory, but no matter what i do i hit a fade. i went to the range today, and all my shots are doing this. i'm trying my best to have passive wrists and let my club come through and square up naturally without having to actively square the face, but something isn't working. this has been happening for a while and i'm well over it.

any ideas, tips, anything? all help is very much appreciate.
post #2 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

i'd really appreciate some advice to take to the range tomorrow. i've got a tournament on sunday.
post #3 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
so apparently this is what i have to do to hit a golf shot that isn't a fade.
To do what? Hit a pull?

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
my swing is in to out
I doubt it.

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
...but i'm still managing to cut across the ball somehow.
And that's why.

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
don't get me wrong, i've got good flight and trajectory, but no matter what i do i hit a fade. i went to the range today, and all my shots are doing this. i'm trying my best to have passive wrists and let my club come through and square up naturally without having to actively square the face, but something isn't working. this has been happening for a while and i'm well over it.
Video would tell us. As it is, nobody can really give you specific advice. Your wrists should be passive - you should not need to roll them over through impact.

I plan to post a drill you can try later on. Watch my YouTube page. I'll try to remember to post it here too.
post #4 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

This reply is not for a permanent fix or swing change but is information that will get almost any one moving the ball right to left... then a proper swing can follow when you get confident in the concept the draw is going to happen.

Start at the first thing... grip and wrist flatness. Then practice the push draw, starting small and increasing the power. You must shift your hips left so you can approach from inside the line. Finally if you are still fading, make sure your left wrist is very flat at the top and force yourself to hit low push draws until your confidence returns -- you may even need to go bowed wrist at the top before things fall into place -- that is an extreme measure and not recommended except to force your swing to draw the ball. These comments are all not something to do just before a tournament but usually they will work over the long term. It is hard to draw the ball if your lower body does not shift left, but you still need to keep the head in place and not let it shift left with your body before impact -- that can lead to pulls. Just my opinion.

My own little trick to get a draw going is to take the club away with a more outside move because that really makes it easy to stay under plane through impact on the downswing. Yes, that is not a good thing over all, but the out and then under loop will get you back drawing quickly, then you can feel confident in hitting the inside of the ball with a nearly square face and drawing it. Half of getting rid of a fade is not getting the club trapped with your body so you cannot shift to the left and the other 90 percent is a swing plane that does not get out and over -- that is a Yogi kind of answer.

-- Eric was posting at the same time I was... Watch for his drill.
post #5 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

At the top of the backswing, do you cup your left wrist?

If so, this opens the face and you'll fade everything. It's important to have a flat left wrist which will automatically square the face at impact. I had a similar issue recently and my instructor gave me the SKLZ smart glove which doesn't allow me to cup the left wrist .... big help!

If not, then you're mostly likely coming over the top.
post #6 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Here's the drill:



I think it's somewhat self explanatory.
post #7 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

What is your swing speed? I noticed you had an extra stiff shaft on your driver. I'm no expert but I have read that sometimes if you're too stiff of a shaft it makes it harder to get the club back square....but like I said, I'm just throwing something out there and by no means a "golf coach"
post #8 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

For those watching the "drill," please take note of the clubface on the follow-through. It never rolls over... proving you do not have to flip your wrists over through impact to hit a draw. Great video because it clearly shows the face angle still a bit toward the sky at belt high in the follow-through. Also note the hips are ahead of the head as they turn open -- you can hit the inside back of the ball this way. If the hips stay back and centered and then turn, your axis is well behind the ball and you will come over the top and typically slice or flip your wrist and hit a pull hook. Yes the video is self-explanatory, but a lot of people still don't get it. Everyone has a slightly different way of getting there and what I tell people to do is hit 80 yard 8 irons, trapping the ball with a push draw. Typically they simply cannot do that and hit their shots almost as far as a full swing -- that should prove something.
post #9 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by JaredSS View Post
What is your swing speed? I noticed you had an extra stiff shaft on your driver. I'm no expert but I have read that sometimes if you're too stiff of a shaft it makes it harder to get the club back square....but like I said, I'm just throwing something out there and by no means a "golf coach"
my controlled ss is 116 with the driver.
post #10 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

In addition to what RC said, the other thing you can do in this drill is really "hit fast, stop fast" - hit the ball with some good speed, then brake the club quickly - almost as if you're leaving the club in the ground - which will force you to extend your arms and to maintain the flying wedge (angle between right arm and shaft).

And as you can see in the intermediate part, I "pre-set" impact by pushing the left knee and hips forward. This puts in the secondary axis tilt and allows me to swing out at the ball with a slightly open clubface to produce a push-draw with little to no rotation of the face. You never see my left hand peeking out below my right on the follow through because I've not had to "release" or "roll" anything.
post #11 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Depending on the type of swing you have you might need to feel like you roll the wrists.

Stack and Tilt guys are more often than not angled hingers (which basically means no roll of the wrists) and they do well with this type of hinge.

People who move well onto their right side and then back to their left side will often do better with a horizontal hinge which is the golf club making a full roll feel.

The other hinging type is a vertical hinging which is an anti-roll feel that you would use to hit a flop shot for example.

The video below explains it about as well as you could possibly imagine.

post #12 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by grantc79 View Post
Depending on the type of swing you have you might need to feel like you roll the wrists.

Stack and Tilt guys are more often than not angled hingers (which basically means no roll of the wrists) and they do well with this type of hinge.
Yes, that much is true, but I think the third accumulator is the lousiest one out there, particularly for the average golfer, and most people would be well off if they didn't have to try to time the rolling of the wrists back to square the clubface.

Some guys on the PGA Tour seem to "release" the heck out of the club but it's when the clubhead is well past the ball - Lucas Glover springs to mind. So - and not that it's possible - but he's angled hinge on the downswing and first part of the follow-through but then switches to a horizontal hinge motion.

Simply put, I don't advise rolling the wrists. Not on the takeaway and not on the downswing. For the guy that plays a few times a week and doesn't hit 300 balls a day it's tough to pull it off with any consistency at all.
post #13 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
Yes, that much is true, but I think the third accumulator is the lousiest one out there, particularly for the average golfer, and most people would be well off if they didn't have to try to time the rolling of the wrists back to square the clubface.

Some guys on the PGA Tour seem to "release" the heck out of the club but it's when the clubhead is well past the ball - Lucas Glover springs to mind. So - and not that it's possible - but he's angled hinge on the downswing and first part of the follow-through but then switches to a horizontal hinge motion.

Simply put, I don't advise rolling the wrists. Not on the takeaway and not on the downswing. For the guy that plays a few times a week and doesn't hit 300 balls a day it's tough to pull it off with any consistency at all.
It depends really.

I will say this, if you can play golf as an angled hinger you probably should. Whenever I hit with the right arm and angled hinge it is literally like playing golf in straight lines around the course.

That said, if you are a person who spends a lot of time playing golf, you have good instruction, and have high speed cameras to monitor what you are doing......
post #14 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

How much distance would rolling the club really give? I know I can hit it long enough with angled hinge, so I do not want to roll the club, as it results in poor accuracy and more shots given up to chance. If you have to roll the wrists on the downswing to get the club face square, there are three possibilities. You can leave the club face open, time it perfectly and get it square or roll it over too much and leave it closed. Without rolling, you don't have to time anything. Of course, we won't be able to get the clubface square all the time, but since you don't have to roll it, it is easier to get the average closer to square.

I haven't quite incorporated it into my swing yet, but when I get a good thing going, I can be very accurate. I've heard people say that when you hit a draw or fade you have to roll the wrists, but that is just wrong. The ball will draw or fade when the swing path angle and club face angle are different. If you set up with the club face closed or open and do an angled hinge, the club face will come down as closed or open, in somewhat the same angle as it was at address.
post #15 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by grantc79 View Post
That said, if you are a person who spends a lot of time playing golf, you have good instruction, and have high speed cameras to monitor what you are doing......
... you'll still have bad days where your timing is off if you're a horizontal hinger.

There, I finished it for you.

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
How much distance would rolling the club really give?
Not much. And in my opinion - which I've talked about before - the timing element makes it a typically bad idea for people who don't play golf as much as Vijay Singh.
post #16 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
... you'll still have bad days where your timing is off if you're a horizontal hinger.

There, I finished it for you.



Not much. And in my opinion - which I've talked about before - the timing element makes it a typically bad idea for people who don't play golf as much as Vijay Singh.
Pretty much.

The main motion where you get power from the wrist standpoint anyways isn't the rolling as much as it is the karate chop motion of the uncocking of the left wrist.

The roll basically just is a little lagniappe as we say down here.
post #17 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

here's a few 5 iron swings. i'm in the process of uploading some head on swings. went to the range today and practiced a few shots using RC's method and erik's drills. they helped with 3/4 swings, but when i hit a full shot i'm still pushing the ball out. i guess it'll just take some time to integrate. but here are some dtl, all help appreciated...


face on:
post #18 of 31

Re: rolling wrists to square up clubface...

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
here's a few 5 iron swings... went to the range today and practiced a few shots using RC's method and erik's drills. they helped with 3/4 swings, but when i hit a full shot i'm still pushing the ball out.
Pushing? Those look like dead pulls. The ball started dead left every time... correct?



The grip of your club gets further away from your body at the start of your swing and you roll your hands open (the clubface is even beyond toe up when it should be closer to 45 degrees like this: /). It gets behind you too.

You need to work on taking your hands in along the arc (back, up, and IN) and feeling as if the right hand stays on top of the club more - or that the logo on your glove looks at the ball longer (while taking the hands in).

In the FO view, which you've just added, compare your impact to the one I have in the drills:



Thing is, you can't get to my impact position easily if you're rolling the club way open as you do on the takeaway.
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