Originally Posted by cbrian
My point wasn't about HOW they move, but WHEN they move. His shoulders don't even get to square until well after impact. Shoulders definitely need to get open faster, and for a guy that is used to having that drop move its going to feel OTT'ish when the left arm is where it should be. Maybe I should have said it differently, but oh well....
I think that's an important distinction... yes, good catch. Sorry my previous post was so short - yesterday was packed pretty well and my post was shorter than it should have been.
I'd still love to see a face-on view. I think we'd see the right arm overflexing and then needing more time. I'd like to see a swing where the right arm felt a lot of extensor action and the club didn't shallow out so much (he adds #3 in his transition).
Straight arms, shaft feeling across the line.
Will take out a little of the palmar flexion... and in my experience he's making the moves (the timing of them more so than the movement, yes) because of the addition of #3 late and through the transition, the palmar flexion, and the right elbow being slightly slow (because it over-flexes).
Originally Posted by mchepp
Many amateurs, myself included, have our shoulders too closed P5-P7. In that sense I agree with cbrian (not with saying OTT, but lets not get hung up). Guys like me perform a tip-out to get the face square, shortstop lowers the handle. Both of us have to get the plane line left. After seeing this swing I think lowering the handle is better because it is not a flip. But still a compensation.
I don't think that's the root cause, though. I agree that a lot of people will be closed and for a lot of people it's similar. You'll note that he doesn't unload his accumulators at all from P4 to P5 - in fact he adds #3 and #1 and #4 are still overloaded.
In my experience you can't tell someone like this to spin faster or throw his right shoulder out. And you have to be careful because you don't want him running out of right arm by P7 either. That's why I've made the recommendation I've made - straight arms, club feeling across the line and steeper coming down. It'll change his wrist conditions and stop #3 from loading so late and #1 and #4 from loading and staying loaded so much.
In my experience, it's really tough to continue loading #3 when #4 (mostly) and #1 are unloading. And vice versa. I think the loading of #3 in transition is key here.
Originally Posted by mchepp
I think that you need to get the shoulders steeper on the backswing if you are going to have your hands come in on the backswing. I think this action will steepen the shaft on the backswing. Second thing is to ensure you are not overfolding the right arm. I got the swing extender to work on that. It works, but that is one tough nut to crack. I still struggle with it from time to time.
I like where that's going... I think we'd see from the face-on view that his right arm overflexes and he doesn't get 90 degrees of shoulder turn. Could largely be due to the relative lack of hip turn (shown below along with the results of being really inclined to the ball - probably could do well to feel he's standing taller (eyes still down at the ball) and turning his hips more to allow for more of a shoulder turn).
Thanks cb and mc for adding your thoughts. These are all "around the same area," and I think we all agree we'd like to see a FO view.