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300 yard drive, what's the big deal? - Page 5

post #73 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

And STILL has nothing to do with overall ability to score.  What good is hitting long but its a long slice or a long hook? What good is long if you hit past the green 15 yards into a hazard?  What good is long if you can't chip onto a small green or can't read breaks or can't putt?  One of the best skills a golfer can have is accuracy, not distance.  

 

 

The ability to score is heavily weighted towards proximity to the hole. If you tell a person, ok drop a ball on the fringe, or drop a ball 50 yards back. Which is an easier shot? Which one will allow the player to get closer to the hole on the next shot more often? Ask a person, what is easier, 200 yard shot or a 100 yard shot? Which one will get you closer to the hole? Its not hard to grasp, being closer to the green is a HUGE advantage. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

This is also wrong.  A good or average player would find it easier to hit a green with a pitching wedge but not necessarily a non-skilled player.  A non-skilled player can't hit any club and I doubt that it matters what club is in his hand because he will screw the shot up with every club equally as bad.  

 

Incorrect. Pitching Wedge is easier to hit because it has more loft and it is a shorter club. Why do you think a lot of amateurs say, "I can hit my 3 wood better than my driver". It's a shorter club, and it has more loft. A Pitching Wedge is already easier to hit because it's designed to be. A bad player will miss hit both, but they will miss hit a 7 iron more off line than a pitching wedge. 

post #74 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

This is also wrong.  A good or average player would find it easier to hit a green with a pitching wedge but not necessarily a non-skilled player.  A non-skilled player can't hit any club and I doubt that it matters what club is in his hand because he will screw the shot up with every club equally as bad.  


So your saying hitting a pw is just as difficult as hitting a 7 iron for a non skilled player? I think a little elaboration of where non skilled falls versus skilled because I would bet any money a guy who doesn't break 90 is going to find that pw much easier to hit.

post #75 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

I highly disagree with this, I'm a non-skilled high handicapper and I find it 1000x easier to hit the green 100 yards away with a pitching wedge than a green 140-150 yards away with a 7 iron. 

That seems pretty common sense to me. 

 

I highly disagree with that also.  Yes everybody knows it is easier to hit a short club than a longer one but that is for people who don't suck.  If you can't hit a 7 iron at all, how are you going to magically develop the mechanics to hit the green with a pitching wedge.  I say this from experience because in the beginning I could not hit ANY club and it didn't matter which one I had in my hand I would hit the ground first on any of them.

post #76 of 111

First, @RightEdge, please learn to multiquote:  New to The Sand Trap? Little Things Members Expect and Ask of Fellow Members .

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

Hitting long does not mean you are good at scoring.  Anybody that disagrees with that is not being honest. Hitting long doesn't mean you hit it straight and it furthermore has no bearing on chipping and putting.  

 

It doesn't mean you are good at scoring, but it is a BIG PART of it.

 

Chipping and putting matter very little in the grand scheme of things. The full swing matters quite a bit, and of that, distance is a HUGE advantage.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

One of the best skills a golfer can have is accuracy, not distance.  

 

Okay, I'll give you 75% fairways hit accuracy, but cap your drives at 175. You give me 300-yard drives, but I only hit 25%. The rest of our games are the same. Guess who wins? It's not you.

 

Furthermore, the longer drivers also tend to be more accurate. It's a skill. No, the 18 handicapper who just happens to have power and speed may not be super accurate, but generally speaking, longer drivers are more accurate.

 

Here's a chart that may interest you:

 

post #77 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

 

I highly disagree with that also.  Yes everybody knows it is easier to hit a short club than a longer one but that is for people who don't suck.  If you can't hit a 7 iron at all, how are you going to magically develop the mechanics to hit the green with a pitching wedge.  I say this from experience because in the beginning I could not hit ANY club and it didn't matter which one I had in my hand I would hit the ground first on any of them.

 

You wont magically develop anything, but you will suck more at a 7 iron than a pitching wedge. The reason being the swing doesn't improve with longer irons, its a pretty consistently bad swing. So if all things being equal, a pitching wedge is still easier to hit. Also you will still be closer to the green. The pitching wedge is less likely to go offline. It is still a better option for a bad player. 

post #78 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post

I highly disagree with that also.  Yes everybody knows it is easier to hit a short club than a longer one but that is for people who don't suck.  If you can't hit a 7 iron at all, how are you going to magically develop the mechanics to hit the green with a pitching wedge.  I say this from experience because in the beginning I could not hit ANY club and it didn't matter which one I had in my hand I would hit the ground first on any of them.
So people who can't get iron shots off the ground can still hit a driver 300+ yards? Sound legit.
post #79 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

 

I highly disagree with that also.  Yes everybody knows it is easier to hit a short club than a longer one but that is for people who don't suck.  If you can't hit a 7 iron at all, how are you going to magically develop the mechanics to hit the green with a pitching wedge.  I say this from experience because in the beginning I could not hit ANY club and it didn't matter which one I had in my hand I would hit the ground first on any of them.

Ummm, i suck. And I hit a PW much easier than a 7 iron. In fact I can't remember the last time I've shanked a PW...yet I've done it with a 7 plenty of times.

post #80 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

 

I highly disagree with that also.  Yes everybody knows it is easier to hit a short club than a longer one but that is for people who don't suck.  If you can't hit a 7 iron at all, how are you going to magically develop the mechanics to hit the green with a pitching wedge.  I say this from experience because in the beginning I could not hit ANY club and it didn't matter which one I had in my hand I would hit the ground first on any of them.


Your wrong a pw is much easier to hit at virtually any skill level, the reason is a pw will put less sidespin on the ball therefore it's easier to keep the ball on line, your very much generalizing every beginner as completely inept at hitting even the most easiest club, maybe this is the case with you but I have seen kids be able to hit pitching wedge way more proficient than any other club at the beginning stages, I used to volunteer for first tee plus have nearly 30 years playing this game.

post #81 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 


So your saying hitting a pw is just as difficult as hitting a 7 iron for a non skilled player? I think a little elaboration of where non skilled falls versus skilled because I would bet any money a guy who doesn't break 90 is going to find that pw much easier to hit.

I think this debate is getting a little out of context of what I was originally trying to say but there is a difference between a guy that has problems hitting irons and a guy that sucks at hitting irons.  But to your point a guy who doesn't break 90 may actually find it easier to hit a PW than a 7 iron ok I give you that.  But hit it where is the question.  You are still dancing around my original point that hitting the ball long doesn't mean squat if you have no idea where it's going.  That is my original point, hitting long has no bearing on scoring unless you can hit it where you intend to. What good does hitting a 6 iron 200 yards if it lands OB? Here's one that we all see all the time.  Somebody crushes a drive and has a 180 yard shot in.  Takes out a hybrid and slices it in the woods. Now what?  Drop 3 and hit 4? For a golfer like me that is a double bogey at best waiting to happen and it may even a triple or worse.

post #82 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

I think this debate is getting a little out of context of what I was originally trying to say but there is a difference between a guy that has problems hitting irons and a guy that sucks at hitting irons.  But to your point a guy who doesn't break 90 may actually find it easier to hit a PW than a 7 iron ok I give you that.  But hit it where is the question.  You are still dancing around my original point that hitting the ball long doesn't mean squat if you have no idea where it's going.  That is my original point, hitting long has no bearing on scoring unless you can hit it where you intend to. What good does hitting a 6 iron 200 yards if it lands OB? Here's one that we all see all the time.  Somebody crushes a drive and has a 180 yard shot in.  Takes out a hybrid and slices it in the woods. Now what?  Drop 3 and hit 4? For a golfer like me that is a double bogey at best waiting to happen and it may even a triple or worse.


Refer to the chart @iacas has displayed above, if anyone knows around here he would.

post #83 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

I think this debate is getting a little out of context of what I was originally trying to say but there is a difference between a guy that has problems hitting irons and a guy that sucks at hitting irons.  But to your point a guy who doesn't break 90 may actually find it easier to hit a PW than a 7 iron ok I give you that.  But hit it where is the question.  You are still dancing around my original point that hitting the ball long doesn't mean squat if you have no idea where it's going.  That is my original point, hitting long has no bearing on scoring unless you can hit it where you intend to. What good does hitting a 6 iron 200 yards if it lands OB? Here's one that we all see all the time.  Somebody crushes a drive and has a 180 yard shot in.  Takes out a hybrid and slices it in the woods. Now what?  Drop 3 and hit 4? For a golfer like me that is a double bogey at best waiting to happen and it may even a triple or worse.

Lol, actually I think you took it of context. We all get what you're saying, length isn't all that amazing if you can't get it on the fairway. However at any skill level I firmly believe that someone with a PW in their hands will be hitting the green and scoring better than someone with a 7 iron in their hands and 40 yards further away.  

post #84 of 111

@iacasI don't like that graph much, it just reminds me that with my length I should have a much lower handicap rofl.

post #85 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

I think this debate is getting a little out of context of what I was originally trying to say but there is a difference between a guy that has problems hitting irons and a guy that sucks at hitting irons.  But to your point a guy who doesn't break 90 may actually find it easier to hit a PW than a 7 iron ok I give you that.  But hit it where is the question.  You are still dancing around my original point that hitting the ball long doesn't mean squat if you have no idea where it's going.  That is my original point, hitting long has no bearing on scoring unless you can hit it where you intend to. What good does hitting a 6 iron 200 yards if it lands OB? Here's one that we all see all the time.  Somebody crushes a drive and has a 180 yard shot in.  Takes out a hybrid and slices it in the woods. Now what?  Drop 3 and hit 4? For a golfer like me that is a double bogey at best waiting to happen and it may even a triple or worse.

 

Hitting the ball longer is a trend of better players. If you take two guys who are physically the same, and one has a good swing and one has a bad swing. The guy with the good swing will hit the ball farther. Distance is a bout max ball speed. Max ball speed is weighted heavily on by solid contact. So in general longer hitters don't hit it more offline. Given they physically can hit it father offline, but it happens much less often than shorter hitters. 

 

Your talking like hitting it long and hitting it way offline is a common thing to happen. It really isn't. 

post #86 of 111
Because that golfer isn't always just long and wrong. My experience is is the higher the handicap the more inconsistent a golfer is, they have a variety of mishits throught a round, left, right, short just general poor contact. The longer than average shots these types occassionally hit are happenstance, they got lucky, it's usually not indicative of some underlying talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post

I think this debate is getting a little out of context of what I was originally trying to say but there is a difference between a guy that has problems hitting irons and a guy that sucks at hitting irons.  But to your point a guy who doesn't break 90 may actually find it easier to hit a PW than a 7 iron ok I give you that.  But hit it where is the question.  You are still dancing around my original point that hitting the ball long doesn't mean squat if you have no idea where it's going.  That is my original point, hitting long has no bearing on scoring unless you can hit it where you intend to. What good does hitting a 6 iron 200 yards if it lands OB? Here's one that we all see all the time.  Somebody crushes a drive and has a 180 yard shot in.  Takes out a hybrid and slices it in the woods. Now what?  Drop 3 and hit 4? For a golfer like me that is a double bogey at best waiting to happen and it may even a triple or worse.
post #87 of 111

Let's say a player averages 5° off-line.

 

A shorter hitter will be "more accurate" because his ball won't go as far off-line, but stats show that the longer hitter STILL has the advantage. In fact, Broadie's stats would say that gaining only 20 yards while keeping the same accuracy level (by degrees, not by fairways hit) shaves 2.3 strokes off the scores of a 100-shooting golfer.

 

That same golfer will only shave 1 stroke by hitting the ball one degree more accurately.

 

 

Table (Click to show)

 

 

 

Note how at every level of the game, the added 20 yards of distance is equally or more important than an extra degree of accuracy.

 

Sorry, @RightEdge.

post #88 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

Because that golfer isn't always just long and wrong. My experience is is the higher the handicap the more inconsistent a golfer is, they have a variety of mishits throught a round, left, right, short just general poor contact. The longer than average shots these types occassionally hit are happenstance, they got lucky, it's usually not indicative of some underlying talent.

So you are saying my 2 eagles in 3 holes was just lucky happenstance and not indicative of having any talent? :cry:

 

Just kidding, I am pretty inconsistent still, but I'm trying dangit!

post #89 of 111
Well it's pretty easy to refute distance doesn't equate to better scores. If it didn't then I wouldn't shoot 5+ strokes better by teeing it forward. After all I am playing the same holes. I guess there could be a handful of people out there that can hit the ball 300 off the box but are so uncoordinated they can't advance an iron, chip or putt and don't hit playable drives very often. Maybe someone needs to come up with a word to use for those hits because if they are never playable they certainly aren't golf shots. I hit my driver 250-260 range total right now and like I said if I straight pull it I can add 20+ yards to it. I am not sure why maybe everything just fires through faster. Still I don't tell people I can drive 270-280 because those balls are 90%+ unplayable and therefore are useless in the game of golf.
post #90 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

This is also wrong.  A good or average player would find it easier to hit a green with a pitching wedge but not necessarily a non-skilled player.  A non-skilled player can't hit any club and I doubt that it matters what club is in his hand because he will screw the shot up with every club equally as bad.  

How  do you address @tmac20's post/ You think the same non-skilled player who can't hit any club well conjures up a 300 yard poke when he wants to. I don't doubt whatever your distance is, but if I were you, I'll just do a trackman session and post it.

 

I've seen 300 down the middle, slightly pushed/pulled into the 2nd cut, but I ain't seen 300 hooks or slices. So if you have the technique to keep a 300 yd drive playable, I would like to think you have the technique needed to cover the rest in less than 5 shots for your average par 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac20 View Post


So people who can't get iron shots off the ground can still hit a driver 300+ yards? Sound legit.
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