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300 yard drive, what's the big deal? - Page 6

post #91 of 111

I think @RightEdge has realized he's wrong. So let's all back off and put away the pitchforks. :-)

post #92 of 111

-Long drive off the tee definitely helps

 

-driver shot is always the same lie of the ball - in all golf courses your'e going to shoot the ball off the tee - preferrably with driver if it's a par4-5... That's why you always bring a putter in the bag, you're always going to putt the ball... Same with driver, you need to cover some kind of good distance off the tee...

 

-longer drive off the tee, which is always a perfect lie for the ball by the way, definitely helps a little bit in allowing shorter clubs to be used.

 

- higher clubhead speed ought to transfer to all the clubs in the bag, not only the driver, but also irons and wedges.

 

-Presumably due to the increased apex of flight  path, and also increased distance, e.g. Bubba Watson's 9-iron should be more accurate than for example Jim Furyk's 7-iron (that's just an example)

 

If you had a competition between accuracy, same distance being covered in 1-shot  Bubba's 9-iron vs Furyk's 7-iron (or something like that)

post #93 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

Let's say a player averages 5° off-line.

 

A shorter hitter will be "more accurate" because his ball won't go as far off-line, but stats show that the longer hitter STILL has the advantage. In fact, Broadie's stats would say that gaining only 20 yards while keeping the same accuracy level (by degrees, not by fairways hit) shaves 2.3 strokes off the scores of a 100-shooting golfer.

 

That same golfer will only shave 1 stroke by hitting the ball one degree more accurately.

 

 

Table (Click to show)

 

 

 

Note how at every level of the game, the added 20 yards of distance is equally or more important than an extra degree of accuracy.

 

Sorry, @RightEdge.

Not really disputing what you're saying, as I agree that extra distance is vital, but how does he decide that a fair comparison is between 20 yards and one degree?

 

I hope there is a good reason, because otherwise I could just change the top of the table to 10 yards or the bottom of the table to 2 degrees and "prove" that accuracy is more important than distance.  (At least for the lower or mid cappers)

post #94 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Not really disputing what you're saying, as I agree that extra distance is vital, but how does he decide that a fair comparison is between 20 yards and one degree?

I hope there is a good reason, because otherwise I could just change the top of the table to 10 yards or the bottom of the table to 2 degrees and "prove" that accuracy is more important than distance.  (At least for the lower or mid cappers)

PGA Tour players are about +/-3°. So a 20 yard improvement is small while a 1° improvement is massive. And yet even have the PGA TOUR level the small change of adding 20 yards does as much for them as improving by the massive 1°.

Plus, longer drivers are more accurate drivers. Driving is a skill. When you get better at it, distance and accuracy both improve.
post #95 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


PGA Tour players are about +/-3°. So a 20 yard improvement is small while a 1° improvement is massive. And yet even have the PGA TOUR level the small change of adding 20 yards does as much for them as improving by the massive 1°.

Figured there was a reason, but thought I'd ask just in case. :beer:

post #96 of 111

I remember a couple years ago, I was told that a guy playing that day shot even par almost every round.  I look at him and he had to be pushing 80yrs old.  He didn't hit long (like 200yd driver), but it went exactly where he wanted it and the rest of his game was practically flawless.  The course is only 5600yds or so from the tips.  He can shoot nearly the same scores I do on that course, but bring us to a course thats 7200 yds and there isn't a comparison.  My point is, there are exceptions to the rule.  My drive could bring me to the greens on that course often, but closer to the greens are water and OB, so even one bad shot gives you a penalty.

300yd drives are great, but there's a time and a place for it, like everything.  It's better to hit the shot you know will give you the best chance at scoring, doesn't matter what club it is.

post #97 of 111

I feel like we are giving a false impression and telling Golfers to just go out and swing hard and that's not whats best...  The 20 yards is worth more argument may have some weight, but generally if a player is going to swing harder he is going to become more inconsistent.  If you can add 20 yards and keep close to the same accuracy easily, I think we would all check that box and do it...

 

Let's be clear... Accuracy is important-  I don't care what the argument is with 20 yards vs. accuracy.... If that 20 yards distance makes you more likely to hit the ball OB, or in a hazard and catch a penalty stroke...  Lose the 20 and play smart...  One ball OB is going to cause you 2 strokes right there. 

 

My thought is that you have to have a good combination.  I hear the argument that longer is ALWAYS better and that's simply BS...  Longer isn't better if it's OB.... Because then your still hitting 3 from the tee box...  Longer isn't better if your in the hazard...    Longer isn't better if your blocked out by a tree and can't see the green and have to lay up.  Longer is better if it's playable and your not buried in deep rough with a shot at the green.

 

You have to still maintain some accuracy and have a playable shot into the green.  Yes, I would rather hit a 7 iron from the middle than a 9 from 3 thick wet rough with a tree in my way.  Yes I would rather putt for eagle on a drivable par 4 then 9 iron from the fairway... but what's the risk?

 

P.S.  I say this, but I'm a gambler lol.. I like to go for it lol:dance:

post #98 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyk View Post

My point is, there are exceptions to the rule.

And my point would be that he had to be nearly flawless (and play from 5600 yards) to shoot that score.
post #99 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP golf View Post
 

I feel like we are giving a false impression and telling Golfers to just go out and swing hard and that's not whats best...  The 20 yards is worth more argument may have some weight, but generally if a player is going to swing harder he is going to become more inconsistent.  If you can add 20 yards and keep close to the same accuracy easily, I think we would all check that box and do it...

 

Let's be clear... Accuracy is important-  I don't care what the argument is with 20 yards vs. accuracy.... If that 20 yards distance makes you more likely to hit the ball OB, or in a hazard and catch a penalty stroke...  Lose the 20 and play smart...  One ball OB is going to cause you 2 strokes right there. 

 

My thought is that you have to have a good combination.  I hear the argument that longer is ALWAYS better and that's simply BS...  Longer isn't better if it's OB.... Because then your still hitting 3 from the tee box...  Longer isn't better if your in the hazard...    Longer isn't better if your blocked out by a tree and can't see the green and have to lay up.  Longer is better if it's playable and your not buried in deep rough with a shot at the green.

 

You have to still maintain some accuracy and have a playable shot into the green.  Yes, I would rather hit a 7 iron from the middle than a 9 from 3 thick wet rough with a tree in my way.  Yes I would rather putt for eagle on a drivable par 4 then 9 iron from the fairway... but what's the risk?

 

P.S.  I say this, but I'm a gambler lol.. I like to go for it lol:dance:

I assume the distance gained is from the better contact better golfers make not swinging harder. I don't see many good/decent golfers swinging hard. Usually it's the opposite the guys taking big, ugly chops at the ball that finish baseball style are over-swinging and not getting any distance out of it. My best days on the course are when swinging feels effortless. As soon as I start swinging hard I get tense and all kinds of bad things happen. If I catch myself doing it I stand with my feet together and limit my swing, usually the ball goes just about as far as regular swing and always towards the target.

post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I assume the distance gained is from the better contact better golfers make not swinging harder.

That is the 20 yards in distance all golfer want to pick up!  It doesn't come from trying to mollywhop the ball with a whuppin stick.

post #101 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

300 yard drive, what's the big deal???? simple...The vast majority of golfers only hit the ball 210-215  with carry and rollout.

 

If you are hitting the ball even 240 you are in the < 20% of golfers, 260 upper 7%, 300 yards with roll is  <1%

 

Now here is where it gets interesting, average male mid handicap (12-22 HDCP) states they hit the ball 250 yards, put these guys on a launch monitor it more like 220-230yards on a consistent basis. 

 

Less, in my experience. If I play on weekdays the average drive is about 40 yards longer and on weekends the average drive is 20 yards shorter than what you stated.

 

The 220-230 on the Trakman is probably for more serious golfers with about an 85mph swing.

 

The serious bogey golfers <=20HC I have played average 220-230. You always have those 210 yard uphill wind blowing in the face drives to lower the average of the 270+ yard drives downhill and downwind.

 

Do you count worm burners? If so, I would say average drive is even 30 yards shorter.

post #102 of 111

If you started playing this game seriously at a young age say 9-12 or less then you automatically know just how distance makes the game much easier. I started at age 9 and each year as I grew and improved I was gaining at least 1 less club per year hitting into the greens until I was about 16, then it started to slow down.

  Subsequently my stroke average was dropping 10+ shots per year initially, but as you get older approaching the end of puberty those strokes dropped per year also start to slow down as your distance increases slow. At that point breaking 80 on a regular basis and trying to get to even par started weighing heavily on the short game, but in my opinion starting as a junior it was the physical growth and swing improvements that created large yearly distance gains that chewed up most of those strokes going from averaging 105 at age 9 to averaging 75 by age 16.

 

 

As far as mid handicaps that I've played with that can drive it 300, pretty much all of them were just a little too wild to cash in on their distance hitting too many balls O.B. and in hazards. Perhaps if they learned to drive it in the fairway, but I guess they wouldn't be mid handicaps then, lol. I have played with some college kids and younger local assistant pro's that can drive it 300 and most of them had control of their golf ball. Now that's a deadly combination!

post #103 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker0065 View Post

If you started playing this game seriously at a young age say 9-12 or less then you automatically know just how distance makes the game much easier. I started at age 9 and each year as I grew and improved I was gaining at least 1 less club per year hitting into the greens until I was about 16, then it started to slow down.
  Subsequently my stroke average was dropping 10+ shots per year initially, but as you get older approaching the end of puberty those strokes dropped per year also start to slow down as your distance increases slow. At that point breaking 80 on a regular basis and trying to get to even par started weighing heavily on the short game, but in my opinion starting as a junior it was the physical growth and swing improvements that created large yearly distance gains that chewed up most of those strokes going from averaging 105 at age 9 to averaging 75 by age 16.


As far as mid handicaps that I've played with that can drive it 300, pretty much all of them were just a little too wild to cash in on their distance hitting too many balls O.B. and in hazards. Perhaps if they learned to drive it in the fairway, but I guess they wouldn't be mid handicaps then, lol. I have played with some college kids and younger local assistant pro's that can drive it 300 and most of them had control of their golf ball. Now that's a deadly combination!

Seems like college and some high school players have this distance. That's the good part about being young.

I'm happy with my older aged distances, just not my swing mechanics. I hope I can improve the mechanics, and gain consistency across all my clubs.
post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


Seems like college and some high school players have this distance. That's the good part about being young.

I'm happy with my older aged distances, just not my swing mechanics. I hope I can improve the mechanics, and gain consistency across all my clubs.


Yep, as I approach 50 I've definitely noticed if I get lazy in my workouts, practice routines, and swinging a weighted club my distance starts to go down. Sucks but it does keep me somewhat motivated to keep at it. I'm not ready to start going the other way yet on the distance scale but either way father time catches up to us all eventually. Physical conditioning, and a lot of stretching definitely helps keep my distance in tact.

 Man 20 years ago it was nothing to jump out of the car, run to the first tee and fire away. I try that know and I feel like it takes 3 or 4 holes just to get stretched out. My routine is nothing like Miguel Angel Jimenez but man I gotta stretch before I hit balls!

post #105 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker0065 View Post
 


Yep, as I approach 50 I've definitely noticed if I get lazy in my workouts, practice routines, and swinging a weighted club my distance starts to go down. Sucks but it does keep me somewhat motivated to keep at it. I'm not ready to start going the other way yet on the distance scale but either way father time catches up to us all eventually. Physical conditioning, and a lot of stretching definitely helps keep my distance in tact.

 Man 20 years ago it was nothing to jump out of the car, run to the first tee and fire away. I try that know and I feel like it takes 3 or 4 holes just to get stretched out. My routine is nothing like Miguel Angel Jimenez but man I gotta stretch before I hit balls!

My dad is turning 60 this year. He's a bit of a golf nut so to speak. He always does golf fitness exercises, and golf specific stretching routine every day. Then he does warmup and stretching at the range before golf match. He got the exercises from a swing coach at a sports institute I think.

 

He says at least that these exercises improved his flexibility, maybe it's true! After all, he can still pound the driver at least 250 yard total. And my dad is like 5 foot 7, not exactly like Earnie Els, i.e. relying on his bulk and wide swing arc to create the clubhead speed!

post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


Seems like college and some high school players have this distance. That's the good part about being young.

I'm happy with my older aged distances, just not my swing mechanics. I hope I can improve the mechanics, and gain consistency across all my clubs.

 

I have always been a long hitter and was lucky enough to play in college with and against some really good golfers.  Most college players were the 1's and 2's in HS and they are almost all long and straight with decent competitive experience.  Many were capable of hitting 300 yard drives and could carry the ball 270+.  One thing you will notice with a lot of golfers that hit the ball long is their flexibility - something we lose a little of as we get older.

 

It is kind of funny now that I'm thinking of it, but you are at a monster disadvantage if you are playing at that level and only drive the ball 250 off the tee.  There are times when you need to be able to hit it 250+ off the tee.  Keep in mind, the game is a little different when you are playing courses between 6700-7300 yards.  Par 5's are 570, Par 4's can be 450, and Par 3's are 190-230 (none of those are abnormal yardages).  I do have to say that length is a must at that level to stay competitive so it would make driving the ball 300 consistently a big deal and a huge advantage.

post #107 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP golf View Post
 

 

I have always been a long hitter and was lucky enough to play in college with and against some really good golfers.  Most college players were the 1's and 2's in HS and they are almost all long and straight with decent competitive experience.  Many were capable of hitting 300 yard drives and could carry the ball 270+.  One thing you will notice with a lot of golfers that hit the ball long is their flexibility - something we lose a little of as we get older.

 

It is kind of funny now that I'm thinking of it, but you are at a monster disadvantage if you are playing at that level and only drive the ball 250 off the tee.  There are times when you need to be able to hit it 250+ off the tee.  Keep in mind, the game is a little different when you are playing courses between 6700-7300 yards.  Par 5's are 570, Par 4's can be 450, and Par 3's are 190-230 (none of those are abnormal yardages).  I do have to say that length is a must at that level to stay competitive so it would make driving the ball 300 consistently a big deal and a huge advantage.

 

Of course, this is a completely different game than I usually play. I tried hitting from the tips a couple months ago (2 or 3, IDR) at a little over 7000 yards, and was pretty tired after the round. Gained probably 4 or 5 strokes over my normal score with no OB or penalties. I didn't even bother to keep score except mentally track the number of doubles and singles. I recall hitting pretty well with GI clubs and everything was just long. There was a 480+ yard par 4 which took me three good shots. About 250 (Driver) off the tee 210 (Hybrid) from the fairway a 40 (60 degree) pitch because I was a little off line. Two nearly perfect shots for me, and still no way for a GIR. This kind of length is definitely for the longer hitters whether it's a college/HS player or aspiring pro.

 

Side note. The thing that really convinced me about the average length of the pros? Watching pros on a 528 yard par 4.

 

I fully agree that length is the only way to get there even on 7000 yard courses, and even on these long amateur holes you need to hit 300 yards and the other clubs proportionately long.

post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

And STILL has nothing to do with overall ability to score.  What good is hitting long but its a long slice or a long hook? What good is long if you hit past the green 15 yards into a hazard?  What good is long if you can't chip onto a small green or can't read breaks or can't putt?  One of the best skills a golfer can have is accuracy, not distance.

I partially agree, if you are talking 300yds at a range with no rough and no trees then length means nothing. If you are talking 300yds from the tee on an actual hole then 300yds means a lot, to get that far off the tee before going into the rough or trees is a pretty good indication of skill and I doubt if you are getting that far before going into the rough then you probably have a good idea how to play. Unless you are hitting 300yd on the fly then I guess on a course you would be rolling to a stop, so it is possible that you are in the first cut of rough or at least not too far into the rough

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