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My Swing (Zeph) - Page 3

post #37 of 157
Thread Starter 

Re: My Swing (Zeph)

Originally Posted by kafka01 View Post
When you want your arms to go faster you also have to pivot faster - first to get the lower body out of the way and secondly to have right arm bend (bending) left into impact. If that doesnt happen - flip. Look at the picture above how his right arm is flexed at impact, when you look at your video you dont have much flex left in it, now assume that your pivot at impact is a bit more advanced with the same arm position and you will have more flex left.
That is the opposite of what I'm working on. My hips have always gone way ahead of my arms. I've accepted that I can't slow down my hips, so I have to make it work by making a shorter backswing and speeding up the arms. I also want to keep my right foot on the ground as long as possible, making sure the right knee does not kick in.

My right elbow is still bent at impact, something you can see on a DTL video.

I need a bit more raising the belt and tucking the butt thought. Possibly a bit more arm extension through the ball, what Jack calls release. But that is mostly for power, I'm looking for a good impact position for now to get rid of the fats and thins.
post #38 of 157

Re: My Swing (Zeph)

Originally Posted by kafka01 View Post
When you want your arms to go faster you also have to pivot faster
100% wrong for Zeph here, no. I don't think you're understanding what he's trying to do.

P.S. Oops, Zeph replied to say the same thing, as I suspected he might. He knows what he's working on, and this ain't it.
post #39 of 157
Thread Starter 

Re: My Swing (Zeph)

Some notes on backswing length I'm working on.
These are some thoughts I've gathered, please scream out if I'm wrong.

The hands move back, up and in because of three things.
  • The upper body rotates to the right
  • The left arm moves across the chest
  • The right elbow flex
The upper body rotation is somewhere around 90º (probably more for me), depending on your flexibility, it turns the torso to the right. If we did nothing else, the hands would be low and in front of the chest.

The left arm and right elbow is pretty related, but can move independently, though it would be a bit awkward. When the upper body has rotated 90º, left arm crossed the chest and right elbow bent to 90º, the hands have moved as far as I want them to.

From there, I can do a couple of moves to get them farther, which is what I'm trying to eliminate.
  • Overflexing the right elbow
  • Lifting the arms
  • Sliding the right elbow from the front side of the chest to the back side

Overflexing the right elbow is probably the most common overswing issue. Once the right elbow gets past 90º, the tendency is also that the left arm starts bending. The left arm don't have to be rigid and stiff, but I don't want it to bend a whole lot either. I overflex the right elbow to some degree, but the left arm stays pretty straight. It is almost impossible for me to flex the right elbow past 90º without bending the left arm too.

Lifting the arms is not something I've done to the extreme I feel. I've done it to some degree earlier, but I would say it's pretty OK for the moment.

Sliding the right elbow "behind" me is what I believe is the biggest problem. When my shoulders stop turning, the arms keep going, but the left arm stays relatively straight. This is where the right elbow slides behind me. I've swung with the Swing Extender attached and still got the long backswing. The Swing Extender was attached properly and my right elbow did not flex past 90º. How I got the long backswing was the right elbow sliding behind me.

That training aid is really good by the way if you struggle with overflexing the right elbow, not too expensive either. I recommend it. I do overflex the right elbow too, but I would rate the sliding behind me over the overflex.

The result of my right elbow sliding behind me is the arms and hands being late. Like a relay race, the fourth runner starts running before the third runner has passed the stick. My hands are late and I'm forced to flip.
It would have been interesting to see a swing filmed from behind, something I've never done, and compared it to David Wedzik or Mike Bennett. It is a great view for watching the right elbow flex. I would guess that my right elbow got more behind me, than they do.

Looking at one of my videos, when the shoulders stop turning, the arms keep going for a few more inches, and from there, they never catch up agian.

There are two things I primarily try to do now:
  • Not letting the right elbow flex past 90º
  • Not letting the right elbow slide behind me
The first is where the Swing Extender comes in handy. The second is just practice to perfection. The feeling I'm looking for is the right upper arm staying more towards the front side of my chest. It does of course move to the side when the left arm cross the chest, but I don't want it to start moving even farther, to where it gets almost on my back.

If I do these three things: Don't lift the arms, don't overflex the right elbow and don't slide the right elbow behind me, it is virtually impossible to get the same backswing length I've had before. My shoulders does perhaps turn a bit too far, but as long as I keep those other three in place, I think the results will come.

Erik has given me some instruction on bending my right elbow sooner, which I've yet to work too much on. It feels super awkward and wrong, but that means I'm doing something different at least. The point is to get my backswing more synched. Today, the shoulders are done rotating before the right elbow is fully flexed (90º), so it is a part of the problems I'm having. If the shoulders reach the peak at the same time as the right elbow is flexed 90º, it will be a more connected and syncronized backswing.
post #40 of 157

Re: My Swing (Zeph)

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
Erik has given me some instruction on bending my right elbow sooner, which I've yet to work too much on. It feels super awkward and wrong, but that means I'm doing something different at least. The point is to get my backswing more synched. Today, the shoulders are done rotating before the right elbow is fully flexed (90º), so it is a part of the problems I'm having. If the shoulders reach the peak at the same time as the right elbow is flexed 90º, it will be a more connected and syncronized backswing.
Yes, bend it sooner and then stop bending it sooner. It will help with the syncing and a bit of the length (though it can still go behind you).

Here's a rear view of Charlie. Note that his swing is different and not exactly the model and he has things he works on just like you, but the right elbow is visible here of course:

post #41 of 157

Re: My Swing (Zeph)

Zeph hope I'm not out of line here. In your setup in the last video it appears your club is almost straight up and down. It might help if you lean the butt of the club toward your inside thigh. Something my coach has been working with me on my setup, in learning the SnT.
post #42 of 157
Thread Starter 

Shot 75

After two rounds of 88 and 93 on a slope 130, 6000 yard course, I played a good one today. Bumped my handicap down a bit too.

Slope: 119
CR: 67.9
Par: 70
Length: 5000 yards

Score: 75 (net 64)
Fairways hit: 10/14
GIR: 11/18
Putts: 34

2 birdies
10 pars
5 bogies
1 double bogey (pulled tee shot into crap, new ball)

Now this is not a long course by any means, so there is little driving. What I like about it is that I get to hit a lot of long irons off tee. Most par 4s are doglegs, elevated up or down. Some are possible to reach in one, but they are all blind, so I'm going for a layup to 110 yards instead. My problem has primarily been with the irons. Driver has been very good, 3 wood pretty good, 5 wood mostly good. The poor shots with my woods are always poor ballstriking though, so same cause for my iron trouble.

Putting and short game left a bit to be desired, no 3 putts though. I made a lot of 3-4 putters after hitting the first too long.

What worked today was my ballstriking. Not very long, but very accurate. My other clubs however has been a real mess. Left, right, fat, thin.

Today I had one swing though; "hit the ball first".

Through the round I probably hit 2 shots what I consider fat. One of them from loss of focus when the guy ahead of me was letting me through. My ballstriking felt very good all the way. Pretty accurate too most of the time. Missed some greens just on the fringe or fairway.

Distance was not great, but what it usually is. PW is 110, 4i is 180 yards. Some shots go 10 yards long when I hit it well, but it's usually pretty accurate.

It was the Tiger Slam clubs thread that got me thinking about where the club meets the ball. I've been hitting the ground and ball at the same time, sometimes ball first, sometimes ground. Not very consistent. This also twist the club in both directions, sending the ball all over the place. I did pull a few shots today, but overall I'm pretty happy with the results.

I'll bring my camera to the range to record some swing one day this week to see how it looks. I hope my hands are a bit more forward at impact. My swing plane is more out-in than in-out at the moment, often the divot points straight at the target line. I haven't really paid attention to it a whole lot lately, being more focused on my hands. I don't think it should be a problem getting them a bit deeper again. I have no idea how long my backswing was today, my only thought was to hit the ball first.
post #43 of 157

Re: Shot 75

Nice round, Zeph. Keep up the good work and thanks for all the interesting thoughts in this thread. They've helped me get my head around some similar issues in my own swing.
post #44 of 157

Re: Shot 75

can someone help me out with the term "float loading"?
post #45 of 157

Re: Shot 75

Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
can someone help me out with the term "float loading"?
http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/03/lo...g-10-19-b.html
post #46 of 157

Re: Shot 75

that video has dramatically reduced my flipping. its a lot harder to flip when the club is still setting at the start of the downswing. thanks for posting
post #47 of 157
Thread Starter 

Distance to the ball

Ok, my game has been shaping up the last week, but one thing that kept bothering me was my divots. They were forward, but sometimes I saw the tee in the farther end of the divot on a tee shot. Meaning I hit the ball off the toe of the club.

Here is a quote from Erik from some other thread.
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
If you're too close to the ball you'll pull away from the ball to give yourself room.
And he is quite right, I am too close to the ball. Something he also has mentioned in my lessons. So I pulled out some videos to see how it looked, here's a compilation I put together which shows it pretty clear.
I don't know what club the others are using, but it does look like a mid to long iron, mine is a 6i. I think my clubs are a bit on the short side, but I'm still much too close to the ball.



The lines from the shoulders to the hands show that I'm 15-20º farther left than the rest. I've also pulled lines from the ball and straight up, clearly showing how much closer I am.

I will keep my arms straight, what changes in my setup is that the hands will be a bit more uncocked at setup, so I'll have to cock them a bit faster. The goal is for all the backswing elements to reach the top at the same time. Shoulder rotation/tilt, hip rotation, wrist cock, right elbow bend/left arm across chest. I must also fold the right elbow sooner, I've almost kept it straight all the way to P2. It must start sooner and end sooner.

I remember one shot in particular where I hit my 9i 120 meters with a nice and easy swing, which is 10 meters longer than usual. What I did on that shot was to stand farther away from the ball, which probably made me swing more freely and be closer to the sweetspot at impact. I think that change will be pretty easy as long as I keep focus on it for some time. I believe it will do a lot of good to my swing.

Some out-in tendecies has been creeping back into my swing lately, and my distance to the ball is a factor there. It's really hard to come from the inside being that close to the ball. When swinging hard, it's a lot easier to be square or a bit out-in than in-out, when I'm so close.
post #48 of 157

Re: Distance to the ball

You're not alone there, Zeph. I do that too. As you say, it's a simple fix in theory but can be tough to make stick. When I start battling with clean contact, I find myself subconsciously creeping back closer to the ball -- like cozying up to it will somehow make it harder to miss.

--
post #49 of 157

Re: Distance to the ball

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
Ok, my game has been shaping up the last week, but one thing that kept bothering me was my divots. They were forward, but sometimes I saw the tee in the farther end of the divot on a tee shot. Meaning I hit the ball off the toe of the club.

Here is a quote from Erik from some other thread.


And he is quite right, I am too close to the ball. Something he also has mentioned in my lessons. So I pulled out some videos to see how it looked, here's a compilation I put together which shows it pretty clear.
I don't know what club the others are using, but it does look like a mid to long iron, mine is a 6i. I think my clubs are a bit on the short side, but I'm still much too close to the ball.



The lines from the shoulders to the hands show that I'm 15-20º farther left than the rest. I've also pulled lines from the ball and straight up, clearly showing how much closer I am.

I will keep my arms straight, what changes in my setup is that the hands will be a bit more uncocked at setup, so I'll have to cock them a bit faster. The goal is for all the backswing elements to reach the top at the same time. Shoulder rotation/tilt, hip rotation, wrist cock, right elbow bend/left arm across chest. I must also fold the right elbow sooner, I've almost kept it straight all the way to P2. It must start sooner and end sooner.

I remember one shot in particular where I hit my 9i 120 meters with a nice and easy swing, which is 10 meters longer than usual. What I did on that shot was to stand farther away from the ball, which probably made me swing more freely and be closer to the sweetspot at impact. I think that change will be pretty easy as long as I keep focus on it for some time. I believe it will do a lot of good to my swing.

Some out-in tendecies has been creeping back into my swing lately, and my distance to the ball is a factor there. It's really hard to come from the inside being that close to the ball. When swinging hard, it's a lot easier to be square or a bit out-in than in-out, when I'm so close.
Great stuff.
I have this problem too, the reason why I had the ball closer was to eliminate my push slice but I found the further I am the less it pushes...

Hey Zeph how did you get rid of you out to in swing? and what's your "feel" move that starts your downswing? (if you have one.)
post #50 of 157
Thread Starter 

Re: Distance to the ball

I've worked on lots of things, but I would say keeping the hands and clubhead on a better plane, along with getting the weight more forward are the two key components which did a number on my OTT swing.

I don't really have a feel that starts the downswing. My swing thought is whatever I'm working on at the time. I have worked a lot on getting my weight more forward, but I don't think about it anymore. If anything, my swing thought from the top now is to get the hands down and forward as fast as I possibly can.
post #51 of 157

Re: Distance to the ball

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
I've worked on lots of things, but I would say keeping the hands and clubhead on a better plane, along with getting the weight more forward are the two key components which did a number on my OTT swing.

If anything, my swing thought from the top now is to get the hands down and forward as fast as I possibly can.
BINGO...AND BINGO! Love it Zeph! Looking forward to your next videos btw...

Dave
post #52 of 157

Re: Distance to the ball

Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
BINGO...AND BINGO! Love it Zeph! Looking forward to your next videos btw...

Dave

teachers pet...

post #53 of 157
Thread Starter 

Re: Distance to the ball

It's fun with good teachers like Dave and Erik. My progress is as much a testament to their teaching skills as it is to my own efforts.

I'd bring them red apples if it wasn't for the distance.
post #54 of 157

Re: Distance to the ball

Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
teachers pet...

lol...very good!

Dave
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