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All Golf Clubs made in China? - Page 3

post #37 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiolefty View Post

PING clubs are made in the USA (for the most part).

Many/most companies have the components forged/made in the USA but are assembled, tested etc. here.

My dad was a steelworker. American steel died because, among other reasons, it's become much cheaper to make steel in Asia. It's cheaper to make many goods in Asia. Thus, 95% of golf clubheads are made there, shafts, grips, most parts are made in the East.


Wrong.  Even Pings are made in China now.

To the OP, the best you are going to find are clubs that are ASSEMBLED in the USA.  Theres no longer such a thing as clubs that are cast or forged in the USA.

post #38 of 82

Yea, my S57s are cast in China, assembled and tested here in Arizona.

post #39 of 82

I was recently in China and the company I was visiting was lamenting that in 10 years they will no longer be competitive in labor rates because the cost of living is going up rapidly.  They are required by law in China to have a 5 day work week with overtime for Saturday.  They must provide housing, food and medical for all employees.  It's ironic but expected when the economy increases.  Where will clubs be made in 10 years?

post #40 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Black View Post

What's wrong with china?


 

Communism for one.  It disincentivises excelling.  You only do the right thing for fear of punishment or being found out.  I recently bought a $5 lego knockoff plane for my son that was made in China.  I figured they couldn't get it wrong, but man, was it SOOOO  wrong.  For one, the pieces weren't really very straight, so they didn't have any snap when you connected them.  Good luck figuring out how to connect them because the instruction manual defied the laws of physics.  There was no logical progression to it, they had you attaching pieces to thin air, etc.  Compared with the little extra you pay for actual legos which are a great product primarily made in countries other than China (though they do have some strictly limited with lots of oversight of some manufacturing in China), the quality was easily 10 times better, maybe more.

 

"The LEGO Group is recognized as a company observing high standards in ethical, social and environmental matters. Because of that, all our manufacturers (whether in China or elsewhere) must successfully pass a Code of Conduct audit carried out by the LEGO Company or by an independent third party auditor..."  Why would they single out China here?  History.

post #41 of 82

disagree the pricing opinions on this thread. i was looking at authentic bridgestone tourstage drivers and they were retailing at over 600 dollars! some companies are $900 or over $1000! and this has nothing to do with importing the club so i dont wanna hear that excuse...better quality.. their products are better made from what ive been told.

EX. Mizuno irons are considered the best on the market...amazingly on the japanese market they ARENT considered the best...their in 5th or something with bridgestone right behind. most of the reasons they make better quality clubs is the process the clubs go through in order to make them perform on optimum levels.

 

unfortunately japan is technically jipping the US in terms of quality...were paying an amount (a very cheap amount) and they are giving us what we paid for. look at how we price a brand new club. $300 dollars shaft and all...but that same shaft in the club brand new from the company (like aldila, fuji, tour ad) costs 300 dollars ALONE! meaning...the shafts that are put in "stock" are made cheaper...weaker...eventually being just plain useless.

how backwards is this? i was in the market a while back for a Taylormade r9 Superdeep. unfortunately i couldnt find it anywhere in my area and eBay was the only place...people selling the clubs used were for 400-500 dollars...the worst part...people selling the club alone, just the clubhead, were selling them for 250-400 dollars! why! thats rediculous

 

most of this is because of the limits of the USGA.....cant make clubs quality because it makes distances unreal LONGGG...so you have to find other ways to find distance...unfortunately those methods are considered "cheap"

 

hopefully my favorite fairway wood company tour edge will keep it up....they create the distance that the USGA is actually trying to hold back...whats gonna happen when they have to make another Regulation change? were gonna be swinging clubs golfers were swinging in the 50s and 60s...going backwards...but why?

dont get it..

post #42 of 82

Your logic is flawed. The sum of the parts can be much cheaper than the parts alone. It is much cheaper to sell 10k items to 1 person than 10k items to 10k people. There are also different margins and markups throughout the line. If I had to guess the only difference between made for an direct shafts are: club manufactors desire and tolerance.  Nike might want a shaft that behaves differently because that is what they think their customers want. Tolerances would be can the shaft be 1% off the stated specs or 10%. Well there is also the pricing to imply quality aspect but lets not go there.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by handlez42 View Post
unfortunately japan is technically jipping the US in terms of quality...were paying an amount (a very cheap amount) and they are giving us what we paid for. look at how we price a brand new club. $300 dollars shaft and all...but that same shaft in the club brand new from the company (like aldila, fuji, tour ad) costs 300 dollars ALONE! meaning...the shafts that are put in "stock" are made cheaper...weaker...eventually being just plain useless.

how backwards is this? i was in the market a while back for a Taylormade r9 Superdeep. unfortunately i couldnt find it anywhere in my area and eBay was the only place...people selling the clubs used were for 400-500 dollars...the worst part...people selling the club alone, just the clubhead, were selling them for 250-400 dollars! why! thats rediculous



 

post #43 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by x129 View Post

Your logic is flawed. The sum of the parts can be much cheaper than the parts alone. It is much cheaper to sell 10k items to 1 person than 10k items to 10k people. There are also different margins and markups throughout the line. If I had to guess the only difference between made for an direct shafts are: club manufactors desire and tolerance.  Nike might want a shaft that behaves differently because that is what they think their customers want. Tolerances would be can the shaft be 1% off the stated specs or 10%. Well there is also the pricing to imply quality aspect but lets not go there.
 



 



In case of shafts though if you end up putting an aftermarket OEM shaft on a brand new club head like r11 tp the price would go up almost double...the avg stock shaft is worth 40-50 dollars...and that's believable considering tour edge was going to refit my CB3 driver with am aldila rip sigma for 40 bucks (not including installment of course which was probly like 20). A company like Taylor made and aldila work together in order to "screw" the consumer. If in fact products built together should usually be less money vs. bought in parts the companies would lose money. If Taylor made r11 came stock with a top OEM shaft the price would increase dramatically...ppl would probably be a bit scared away by the price...so aldila would make the "made for" shaft not only to help Taylor made sell a club while ensuring that the consumer/golfer have to pull the cheap shaft and purchase and install an expensive aftermarket shaft. Its a win-win for both companies and they know it. The only person that could lose the battle is aldila...which could be lost to companies like tour ad and Fujikura...if in fact the player sides with one of those when in the market for an OEM.

 

 

In ofherwords I'd rather pay the hundred bucks for even a decent shaft that's true to specs vs. A stock shaft that mostly is disliked for build quality, which leads to inconsistency and distance loss. 

 

post #44 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerputt View Post


 

Communism for one.  It disincentivises excelling.  You only do the right thing for fear of punishment or being found out. 

What a simplistic, ignorant, arrogant and ridiculous comment.

You are saying that everyone in a country of a billion is essentially dishonest and lazy.

You may as well say that this applies to anyone in a capitalist country on a fixed wage.

It isn't true.

 


Edited by Shorty - 12/4/11 at 2:15pm
post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

What a simplistic, ignorant, arrogant and ridiculous comment.

You are saying that everyone in a country of a billion is essentially dishonest and lazy.

You may as well say that this applies to anyone in a capitalist country on a fixed wage.

It isn't true.

 


i agree with your statement...and here is why...

 

communism is involved with the government and sometimes religious views...

 

amazingly golf is something that in a way will see through the boundaries of government views..almost like how people in this era will know, or be more susceptible to knowing a famous actor/actress VS. a famous governor or mayor of a state or country.

 

Perfect example...i live on the east coast...i would not know who the governor of "cal-ee-forr-nee-uh" was unless arnold swartzenegger wasnt a famous actor prior to that haha...

 

 

in otherwords people involved with golf in the professional playing world as well as the club companies will not let a govt. get in the way of their passion for golf...Miura is a another example of that passion...now i think in some ways the american golf public is perceived to be "cheap" in terms of buying equipment. obviously this isnt true considering its one of the most highly excelling markets of any market known.

 

kindve like comparing a nissan GT-R to a corvette ZR1....american cars are perceived as cheap...we dont pay up for stuff...its the reason our economy struggles all the time

 

 

in short...the reason they make things isnt just because they do alot of work for little money...its because most cases they do it for pride and passion..its a good reason why mizuno has the best forged irons in the US market..they just have a passion to forge high quality stuff haha just like samurai swords! considered the strongest and lightest swords

 

 

all of this was off topic...yet somehow strangely connected..i hope you guys can connect the dots as i did.

 

 

post #46 of 82

If a golf club company were to surface and promoted MADE in USA as their mantra, and really REALLY promoted that fact ... fair chance they would succeed.     I think golfers as basically a middle class or better group would be willing to spend a little (not necessarily alot) more for USA made equipment.    

post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post

If a golf club company were to surface and promoted MADE in USA as their mantra, and really REALLY promoted that fact ... fair chance they would succeed.     I think golfers as basically a middle class or better group would be willing to spend a little (not necessarily alot) more for USA made equipment.    



I suggest you're wrong. People in general now have the Walmart mentality. Given two equivalent options, the one with the best quality (perceived) and price is seen as the best value. Throw a lifetime warranty on a cheaply made yet essentially indestructible item and voila - a winner is you!!

post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post



I suggest you're wrong. People in general now have the Walmart mentality. Given two equivalent options, the one with the best quality (perceived) and price is seen as the best value. Throw a lifetime warranty on a cheaply made yet essentially indestructible item and voila - a winner is you!!


Unfortunately, I think you're right.     

 

post #49 of 82

unfortunately early in golf with companies like wilson, macgregor, and ram the US was clearly at the top of the game but as their methods became outdated and other companies were exceeding their methods with more equipment with more expensive processes...they just werent willing to take the next step into being competitive in the golf production market...

 

i wish there were more Made in the USA companies...but i dont mind embracing another countries products..

post #50 of 82
I just saw this thread, and it reminded me that I read a post on almost the same subject by Tom Wishon recently.

At the beginning he notes "...sadly as an American I have to tell you that the US forging factories used to rule the roost in this area of clubhead production, but since the late 90s, the US forging companies have either gone out of business or no longer play a significant role in the forging of clubheads. Cornell of Chicago and Hoffman of Memphis, the two forging factories that ruled the golf industry for most of the 20th century are sadly gone. I can’t tell you if Wilson’s forging factory in Tennessee is still in business, but as of 1998 when I last worked with them on a project related to my work on helping Golfsmith buy the Snake Eyes name, their business was pretty much gone then."

The rest is a discussion of Chinese vs. Japanese forges (Japan being the other big player). It's his assertion that there is no quality difference between the two, concluding "Plain and simple, the price difference comes chiefly because of the labor cost differences between Japan and China." (He is associated with Virage Tech, in western China, which makes forged heads for a number of US and Japanese club makers.)

It's an interesting article from a guy who certainly has experience in the field. If you'd like to read it, it's at: Forged irons from Japan vs US or China
post #51 of 82

Hello all,

 

I'm just getting into golf but I email ping and asked if they still made clubs in the US. Here is the response dated April 5, 2011:

 

 

"Thank you for your recent email to PING and for inquiring about our products. While we have gone to some sourcing of materials overseas, we do continue to make golf club heads at our foundry in Phoenix, Arizona, including many of the heads for our G15 irons, our Eye2 XG wedges, a number of putters, and replacement clubs for most of the models we have offered over our 50+ years.

PING employs hundreds of skilled workers in the U.S., including our engineers who design, test, and prototype all PING products; customer service personnel; our sales staff; our marketing personnel; our administrative employees; our shipping department; and our manufacturing teams who carefully complete the final assembly of PING golf clubs while ensuring each is "custom fit" to the specifications requested.

Sincerely,

Bill Gates

Director of Distribution"

 

How is that there are pages and pages to this thread and nobody bothers to ask?

post #52 of 82
I spoke to Bill Gates on the phone and he told me that the G & i 10's were the last made in the USA. They do cast their Prototype heads in Dophin still though and their clubs are assembled in the U.S., but that's it.
post #53 of 82

The audits are largely a joke unless they are completely unannounced, and Chinese factories overall are so locked down that customers and third-party auditors cannot just show up for an audit.  Thus, when the factories are made aware an audit will occur, they scramble to manipulate workers to say the right things and otherwise improve operations to satisfy the auditors.  Once the audit is over, they return to work as is normal in most Chinese factories.  The only real way around this is for an MNE to co-own a factory, but for any foreign entity to own a business in China, the controlling interest must be held by a Chinese firm or individual.  If you really want to know how the factories operate (and I see/hear it all the time with my job), read a book called Poorly Made in China.  What he discusses is very real.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerputt View Post


"The LEGO Group is recognized as a company observing high standards in ethical, social and environmental matters. Because of that, all our manufacturers (whether in China or elsewhere) must successfully pass a Code of Conduct audit carried out by the LEGO Company or by an independent third party auditor..."  Why would they single out China here?  History.



 

post #54 of 82

i made a big stink about this topic a while back and even now im not sure why. isnt it simple to say that china or japan (asia) make certain products like this because they are able to make them of better quality in a shorter time frame?

 

the one thing that interests me about asian clubs is irons and the "craft" like approach that is taken to making an iron as precise as possible. i guess like forged irons and japan they have been doing precision forging ever since the day of the folded forged sword used in war. samurai, and bushido and all that stuff.

they just have a more advanced forging process because its been done for thousands of years. and they realize the necessity of quality materials irregardless of the ending price for production.

 

also the other end of the spectrum is asian built drivers. i keep seeing these elaborate "gold-looking" drivers and the most common thing is how long and precise they are. but is the real reason that woods/drivers are soo good is because of the whole restriction on the C.O.R.? you always see "japan" versions of drivers on the internet and eBay that dont conform to the new regulations of the PGA and R&A? is the only reason they are "better" is because the designs dont conform?

 

clubs like Katana Sword Sniper 4WD driver

or...Maruman Majesty Prestigio Gold Premium driver

whats so special?

 

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