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Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive? - Page 2

post #19 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Originally Posted by TourSpoon View Post
What if DJ had asked the official for a ruling and then the guy says no infraction, would that have been the end of it? Bottom line on DJ, when he saw sand, he should have been cautious.
If he had asked for a ruling about it, what the rules official says is the final word, even if it's incorrect. I suppose if he realized he'd made an error prior to an infraction actually occurring, but the player would not be responsible for a penalty that resulted from a rules official's error.

If the rules official had been asked and had incorrectly told him that he was not in a bunker, he would not have been assessed a penalty. Too bad that he didn't.


Originally Posted by Judah Ben-Hur View Post
I'm sure if you looked real good at alot of footage from tournaments over the years, you'd be shocked. Would they then take the trophy out of someones den 10 years after having one the big one? lol
No, once the results of a tournament have been officially posted, it's over and done with and ordinary penalties cannot result in a retroactive DQ. This is true at all levels. Truly egregious behavior---outright cheating and the like---would probably be handled as a special case, I'd imagine, but no one has to worry about someone scouring the video for infractions. It's too late even for this PGA, as the results have been posted.
post #20 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

This is an unfortunate incident, and it could have happened to anyone. But the onus isn't on the official to prevent violations. The player has to know the rules. These kind of infractions rear their ugly head once in a while but its part of the game.
post #21 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Originally Posted by InTheFairway View Post
This is an unfortunate incident, and it could have happened to anyone. But the onus isn't on the official to prevent violations. The player has to know the rules. These kind of infractions rear their ugly head once in a while but its part of the game.
Exactly.
The other thing is, imagine how a player would react if an official said to him "Hey, you know you're in a bunker, don't you?"
It would be like someone in a lateral hazard about to play and the official saying "Hey, DJ (or whatever familiar form of address you prefer), you know you can't ground your club in there, don't you?'

"Proactive" rules officials would be kicked out of tournaments the moment they spoke without being spoken to first.
post #22 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Originally Posted by zeg View Post


No, once the results of a tournament have been officially posted, it's over and done with and ordinary penalties cannot result in a retroactive DQ. This is true at all levels. Truly egregious behavior---outright cheating and the like---would probably be handled as a special case, I'd imagine, but no one has to worry about someone scouring the video for infractions. It's too late even for this PGA, as the results have been posted.
It would give the internet crowd something to crow about by saying, "He didn't deserve it because he cheated on #9 back in the second round." Hypothetical of course. lol
post #23 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

They had David Price (head pro at Bent Tree CC here in DFW) on a local sports radio station this morning. Price said that he and the marshalls were focused on clearing the spectators to allow DJ clear sight and ball flight to the green. Of interest, Price stated that a few holes earlier, DJ had hit into a smallish fairway rough bunker and his caddy asked if he could remove a dirt clod near the ball (in accordance with the local rule that you could remove stones from the bunker). The dirt clod did not meet the "rock criteria" and was left in plance. Price stated that he wished he could have reminded him about the bunker rule, but he thought it was clearly/obviously a bunker and his priority was clearing the crowd.
post #24 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

To me it's not even about DJ not knowing the rules because he did. In his interview he said he knows you cant' ground the club in the bunker. The thing that gets me is calling the patch of dirt the ball was on a bunker. I think it was lazy and poor planning by the PGA to just call all the sand on the course bunkers and let people walk all over and through them. They should have planned better and deemed all the sand outside the ropes waste bunkers and avoided this type of situation. The PGA needs to step up to the plate and confront these types of situations and make improvements and take strides to avoid these situations, not just deflect blame onto the player and dissolve themselves of any blame. Unless we could see a before picture of that exact spot we will never know if that was even part of the bunker of grass trampled away by fans, it is just a sad situation, which is why people should not be allowed on such an important spot of the course.
post #25 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Originally Posted by popeyegolfer View Post
The thing that gets me is calling the patch of dirt the ball was on a bunker.
It wasn't dirt - it was sand. And it was in a bunker.

Regardless, we have another thread for that if you really think it wasn't a bunker (it was). This thread is about whether the RO could have stopped him somehow.
post #26 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Its not the RO,s job to jump in on decisions such as this, DJ,s caddy is the man who is suppose to have a cool head in such mind numbing pressure situations as this, he failed his duty miserably and dustin paid the price
post #27 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

David Price is one of the best in the biz. It wasn't his job to remind him how to act in a bunker. However, I've had David as a RO for my group and at times he was proactive and at times he just watched. I think if it was less chaotic and he was able to be near the situation he would have been proactive. However, it's not the RO's job to move the people, it's the marshalls job. Anyone who blames David for this is ignorant of competitive golf and RO responsibilities.
post #28 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Nice post 9192. It's a bit like flying an aircraft under visual flight rules. There are times when the controller looking at the scope might pick up on a threat to safety and warn you on the radio ("overtaking aircraft at 5 o'clock, 210 knots, same altitude" ...) but this is not his primary (or indeed legal) responsibility and ultimately it's your job to keep your head on a swivel and avoid a midair.

Moral: don't ever be flying an aircraft - or playing golf - assuming that someone else is looking out for you and will bail you out.
post #29 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Yes the RO would have to be very careful about giving advice when it is not asked for.

Take DJ's case. Dude is on his way to winning his first major and then hits a crap tee shot, he must be a little hot. The RO is suppose to walk and say " By the way you are in a bunker " In hindsite this would have been helpful, but at the time it may have seemed obvious to the RO (who read the rules) and pointing out the obvious bad shot DJ had would be bad form.
post #30 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Originally Posted by whatwhatwhat View Post
Its not the RO,s job to jump in on decisions such as this, DJ,s caddy is the man who is suppose to have a cool head in such mind numbing pressure situations as this, he failed his duty miserably and dustin paid the price
Exactly. Where was DJ's caddy when all this was going on? I can see the RO speaking up if the situation is complex, like "is this an obstruction and can I take a free drop," but ball in a bunker?
post #31 of 31

Re: Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

Even if they could, I would rather they did not. ROs going around pointing out the most common rules of golf to the best players in the world and their caddies? That just seems stupid to me.

Someone mentioned that the RO should have noticed that DJ seemed oblivious to the fact that he was in a bunker. How can you see on a person that he has not recognized the lie as a bunker?

Let the ROs do their job just the way they do now and players themselves make sure they know and enforce the rules.
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