Game Improvement = Bad Habits?

**ColinMB** · October 10, 2006

This isn't a specific question as to a brand name.

I've heard (a few times now) that some believe that the technology behind game improvement irons is so forgiving, it promotes a lazy swing. We've all heard that you should sweep your irons, avoiding a late 'chop' motion, but allgedly today's game improvement irons really don't punish us as much for such undesirable swing traits.

How many of you believe this to be true? Do you find a real 'super' game improvement iron gives you a bad habit? Changes your swing over time?

The reason I ask this is I'm going through kind of a weird spell myself. Admittedly, I'm good from far and far from good as they say. I started this game 3 summers ago with a cheap set of irons I hit -decently-. I moved to 'super game improvement' Callaway Big Bertha's. I immediately shot straighter but shorter. I did notice my miss-hits were coddled by these irons.

Things get interesting when I decide I've had enough of being coddled and want a big more yardage. I picked up a set of Cleveland CG4's and I hit them terribly. Distance is better, but I have somehow developed a nasty hook. I started thinking about differences in my swing which I couldn't find, but the clubs are night and day.

I'm sure it's just my swing, but I wondered what others thought of this 'game improvement' theory? Is there something to it in your experience? Have you maybe never tried 'super game improvement' irons? Or maybe you think this theory is hogwash?

**J.P.** · October 11, 2006

Well Colin . . .

I subscribe to the theory that "game improvement" equipment can improve your RESULTS for the SHORT TERM - but erode your precision over the long term.

Imagine if you practice every day with a hard to hit - small sweet spot iron with no perimeter weighting. If you were patient enough & with help from an instructor, you would - by the long process of trial & error - begin to learn to find & strike the small sweet spot more regularly. Your brain gets instant feed back and there are large, visible penalties for missing it. (ie hooks, slices, no distance etc. . ) You are essentially training yourself to be more prescise.

Imagine then if you have a fine game improvement iron that you practice with. Say your swing is flawed and you continually hit the ball on the toe of the club. You will simply see straight shots with a mysterious distance leak. There can be much less "feedback" with GI clubs than a players club which lets you know right away that you missed the clubface center.

I think if you want to improve your handicap, "game improvement" can only take you so far.

If you don't have time, energy, money, insert your reason here _________ to go out and practice to improve your swing, "game improvement" equipment is essential!

Just my humble opinon . . .

rockyt · October 11, 2006

i totally aggree with J.P. I myself had some MX-23's and yes they did drop my handicap, but as soon as i got my rac TP's i noticed was very inconsistent. i went to the range more than playing on the course. Found thier sweet spot, and in the long run I am hitting longer and more accurately and can work the ball a whole lot better. Which in turn is slowly lowering my handicap.

my 2 pennys....

**iammike** · October 11, 2006

I would think though with game improvement. If you've been hitting a less forgiving set of clubs, and you have hit a wall in improvement. You just can't kill some characteristics of bad hits through practice or lessons. Then i'd say game improvement is the way to go. Cause you'll get some forgiveness for the problems you just can't beat at all.

On the other hand, if you know you're always improving, maybe a middle of the road type of club would be good. Something thats not Tour spec, but something thats not quite, a fat soled game improver.

**NM Golf** · October 11, 2006

I am from the other school of thought. I see no reason why a high handicap should play irons meant for a low handicapper. When I first started playing my irons were definately game improvement. I don't think the extra forgiveness did anything but let me see some success even when I wasn't that good. It wasn't like I couldn't tell there were problems in my swing. As I improved I bought less and less forgiving clubs until I am where I am today. And even though I am close to scratch I will never move into blades. Swing flaws are swing flaws whether you swing a blade or a big bertha. You can improve and become a very good ballstriker playing with game improvement irons. Plus the road to becoming a good player will be much more enjoyable and less frustrating.
I think too many people actually get frustrated and quit playing because of this exact problem, if they had irons they could hit easier they might stick with it.
But that is just my opinion!

**Everardo** · October 11, 2006

I see no reason why a high handicap should play irons meant for a low handicapper.

I completely agree

I also wouldn't say game improvement irons are counter productive, for example our Head Pro is using Callaway Big Bertha 2006 irons and says he's playing the best golf of his life.

**ColinMB** · October 11, 2006

That is very interesting.

I also found a little piece on Golf Digest's site about some players sticking 'game improvement' long irons in their bags.

I just wanted to bring this up because I was interested in hearing people's thoughts. I think maybe I'm expecting too much out of myself at this point, but to 'undo' my improvement by going back to game improvement clubs is not something I want to do.

I think it's a good topic to debate. One of my original sources of this idea was someone associated with Spalding golf (don't quote me but I think he was an ex-club designer).

**knock-down** · October 11, 2006

Use whatever feels best for you and gives you the best results. If that means using GI's...then use GI's.

And as the saying goes, "If it aint broke, don't fix it!"

**GreensDruid** · October 11, 2006

Colin, you mentioned in your first post that you were using super game improvement clubs. Are there different degrees of game improvement? Example: I've always viewed my 845's as game improvement clubs but didn't realize that maybe there's clubs out there that offer even more game improvement. When does a club become a non-game improvement club?

Great topic. Glad you posted.

**muskegman** · October 11, 2006

I tend to feel, as a high handicapper that more demanding irons require more precise ball-striking which improve my swing. The ability to feel the shot and see results (good or bad) gives me an understanding of what I'm doing right or wrong. I also enjoy the look of a slim topline and compact iron. Not only that they feel so incredible even when I pull hook one deep into the bushes.

Having said that, I wouldn't play a true blade because they are truly over my head.

Both arguments have merit. I think it comes down to knowing which clubs allow you to enjoy the game the most and what you are most comfortable with.

**ColinMB** · October 11, 2006

@muskegman & Knock-down: I agree, we're all different, and changing something that works doesn't seem logical, but the main bone of contention that I've heard is that SGI clubs promote longterm swing issues. I haven't been golfing long enough to know if there's any real merit to this.

@GreensDruid: I hope the mods don't mind but here's a link to the 2006 Golf Digest Hotlist:

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/...listirons.html

You'll note there's an iron category of 'super game improvement'. Typically they are described as having a larger top line, and even more sole width than just game improvement irons. SGI's also offer even more perimeter weighting and a bit more oversized face for a larger sweet spot. For instance Nike has Sling Shot OSS's (SGI), Sling Shot Tour (GI) and Nike Pro-Combo's ('Players' clubs'). Nikegolf.com gives you good pictures and layouts of the different clubs if you're curious as to the exact differences.

My first real set of clubs, Callaway Big Berthas, fall into the SGI category, whereas my current Cleveland CG4's fall into the GI/Player category.

**boodaboy16** · October 11, 2006

I am a mid handicapper and I like the new progressive sets that are popular now. I have the 735 with the muscle 8,9,P. I can usually hit these clubs on the sweet spot and I get good feeback. I especially like the responsiveness with knock-down shots. That said, I like the game improvement (cavity back) aspects in the mid-long irons. What I don't like in a lot of game improvment clubs is the large offset, especially in the long irons. I sold my 775CB for that reason. I never figured out how this helps anyone. I feel that the large offset promotes swing flaws more than any other game improvement characteristic (i.e. oversize, cavity back).

I started playing golf with old hand me down PowerBilt Citation muscle backs in the early nineties and didn't know anything about game improvement clubs, but I could have used them. I do feel that I had to improve my swing drastically to accomodate these muscle backs and I am a better player for it today. That said, there also has to be a balance between playing less of a game improvement club to bring your game up another level and playing a club which is too difficult (i.e. all muscle) that makes the game not fun anymore.

**allin** · October 12, 2006

I don't think it is purely a handicap issue. If you want long and straight and don't want to work the ball much. why not use game improvement irons. If you like to work the ball or in my case use that facet of the game to offset length limitations, then to much game improvement is a problem. I don't believe offset affects drawing the ball as much as people believe. It makes the club look different at address and it is easy to close it to make it look like it does without offset. Offset does change dynamic loft which make the ball go higher, clubs with lots of offset are harder to knock down. Thats why I like progressive offset. How often do you really knock down a 5 iron, beyond just moving back in your stance a little, unless you are below a 5 handicap?, and they don't need the extra help anyway.

**boodaboy16** · October 12, 2006

I don't know where you get the under 5 handicapp knockdown rule. Knockdown shots can be easier to hit than full shots, especially long iron full shots. I've been hitting long iron knock downs for as long as I can remember. I can't hit a reliable knock down with large off set game improvement clubs, the ball usually goes left off the bat with some draw.

**allin** · October 12, 2006

I don't know where you get the under 5 handicapp knockdown rule. Knockdown shots can be easier to hit than full shots, especially long iron full shots. I've been hitting long iron knock downs for as long as I can remember. I can't hit a reliable knock down with large off set game improvement clubs, the ball usually goes left off the bat with some draw.

Well, I didn't say it was a rule, obviously individual preferences and we all have diferrent strengths and weaknesses. Just this week I hit a knock down 4iron into a 2+ club wind. But other than the wind I rarely knock down shots on clubs longer than a 7. Why? because it is hard to spin a long iron knock down enough to control the distance with spin. So it is primarially a trajectory issue, I believe for most mid to high handicappers predicting how far a knock down long iron will run out is high risk. Again just my opinion but I think offset affects height more than draw, I think that to a player who has played with less offset the club looks open at address and they instinctively close it down. By the way at most courses someone who consistently shoots in the low to mid 80s would be a 10-12 handicap, unless you play a very easy course.

**wachesawgolfer** · October 12, 2006

I play blades and am really not a good golfer. I can hit the blades on the sweet spot alot and enjoy the feedback. I really do not think game improvement clubs help much in the short irons and wedges which is where short players like me need the help to save par by landing that third shot (par 4) near the pin. I do not hit long irons but use a hybrid which is where game improvement clubs help the most.

A thought, buy a used 9 iron blade for practice and see if you don't start nailing it sweet after a while and then decide whether to expand to down to a 5 or 6 upwards set. Practicing with a MB 9 or 8 should be great for everyone.

**boodaboy16** · October 13, 2006

Well, I didn't say it was a rule, obviously individual preferences and we all have diferrent strengths and weaknesses. Just this week I hit a knock down 4iron into a 2+ club wind. But other than the wind I rarely knock down shots on clubs longer than a 7. Why? because it is hard to spin a long iron knock down enough to control the distance with spin. So it is primarially a trajectory issue, I believe for most mid to high handicappers predicting how far a knock down long iron will run out is high risk. Again just my opinion but I think offset affects height more than draw, I think that to a player who has played with less offset the club looks open at address and they instinctively close it down. By the way at most courses someone who consistently shoots in the low to mid 80s would be a 10-12 handicap, unless you play a very easy course.

Large offsets effect my direction more than height, but without direction height is meaningless. Also, many GI clubs are strong lofted which may further complicate hitting a reliable knock down.

Perhaps, my use of knock down shots is more common than the average mid-handicapper. If so, I don't understand why knock-down shots are not used more often. The swing is shorter and more compact. I also think having a knockdown shot in your arsenal promotes good feel with all iron play, which allows a mid-high handicapper to better understand the concepts of spin, trajectory and distance. I started using knock down shots early on mainly because I felt more confident that I could control the trajectory, distance and spin. I also adopted them for nearly all of my long iron shots because I had not yet developed a sweeping "pick it clean" swing needed for traditional long iron play. Long iron knock down shots are not only for hitting at the pin, they are great off the tee, on a long par 5, hitting under trees, and can be a hugh advantage on a windy day. Basically, the two points I'd like to make are: 1) Long iron knock down shots are not only for low handicappers. 2) Large offset clubs do not allow one to properly develop this important part of the game.

***iacas*** · October 16, 2006

This is a discussion we've had a few times on this forum (I particularly remember the "are your irons better than you"... or something worded like that... discussion).

Anyway, I recently put the r7 TPs in the bag. My swing went to crap, yet my scores were about the same. I put the MB TPs back in the bag and my swing became solid again.

I'm still a fan of playing "tougher" irons because I'm trying to improve my game. Game-improvement irons don't help me do that long-term.

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