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Quickie Pitching Video - Golf Pitch Shot Technique - Page 2

post #19 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by chrisronline View Post
I'm not a huge fan of the wall of the text at the end. I've seen a few demonstrative videos that have a follow-up to the lesson at the end of the video but they correlate each summarizing sentence with a clip or photo of it being done earlier in the video.

You guys should talk to the camera more too :)
We originally recorded it for use in an analysis someone wanted of their pitching motion. So we recorded it, described what the person was seeing in the video, and gave them their analysis.

The "Quickie" part is that I then re-purposed the video into what you see here. It was recorded without regard for sound as the only sound we really intended to have in the video would be our talking as we analyzed the guy's motion and as we described ours.
post #20 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
I'm pretty sure I go past P2 on a 10-yard flop shot. I can use this technique or feeling out to 70 yards if I want, sure. I don't typically opt for that choice that far out, but if the ball's sitting in the rough the feelings are virtually the same.
Yeah, I guess in the video you guys were going just past P2 sort of floating into the downswing. So that video must have been teaching how to do a short pitch if you didn't want the hands to go past the right hip.

That floaty motion looks like it produces a high soft shot.
post #21 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

I tried this out yesterday and had some pretty good results. It looks like there is more wrist movement in this swing than what I was taught before, which is more of a shoulder swing. I was told that using the bigger muscles of your shoulders will produce more consistent results.
post #22 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by Koth View Post
I tried this out yesterday and had some pretty good results. It looks like there is more wrist movement in this swing than what I was taught before, which is more of a shoulder swing. I was told that using the bigger muscles of your shoulders will produce more consistent results.
That's what a lot of people are told, unfortunately. And then a lot of people can't figure out how to hit high, soft pitches or to hit the ball consistently while using the bounce - they tend to hit with the leading edge.
post #23 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

So a high soft shot is only high and soft because it is essentially bounced into the air?

Also, is this pitching method used mainly for rough shots? I'd imagine it'd be hard to bounce the club from a tight lie so this method isn't really for that? Control is the obvious advantage of a downward leading edge strike from a tight lie.

Since it's much more difficult to put spin on the ball from the rough, is this why this technique is so useful? Because it gives you the drop and stop capability of a tight lie shot without putting spin on it?
post #24 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
So a high soft shot is only high and soft because it is essentially bounced into the air?
Huh? The club's bounce simply prevents digging.

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
Also, is this pitching method used mainly for rough shots? I'd imagine it'd be hard to bounce the club from a tight lie so this method isn't really for that? Control is the obvious advantage of a downward leading edge strike from a tight lie.
Absolutely not. If I had to hit a shot from concrete I'd use the club's bounce. In fact, you have it backwards - the tighter the lie, the more likely I am to use the club's bounce, as control is definitely not an obvious advantage in the way you've said. It's much more like a disadvantage. The tighter the lie, the more likely I am to use the bounce, because there's less and less margin for error when using the leading edge.

Hardpan? Packed dirt? Concrete? Firm, tight fairway? Bounce - all the way.

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
Since it's much more difficult to put spin on the ball from the rough, is this why this technique is so useful? Because it gives you the drop and stop capability of a tight lie shot without putting spin on it?
I use this shot 85 to 95% of the time around the green. I can vary the trajectory and get a lower, running shot while still using the bounce to help prevent digging. Spin is easily generated - much more so than a dead-handed chip - because the clubhead can move a lot faster and cut the legs out from under the ball if you wish.

I think you're drastically misunderstanding the applications of this type of shot, and its variations.
post #25 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

I did this for about 2 hours today. It was raining so no one was there. Anyways, I noticed that out of the rough this method worked really well. Off of tight lies there wasn't much room for error though. If I miss just slightly, it's thinned. When I am hitting down on it with the leading edge it generates a great deal of spin, because it's a short motion that's performed quick and hard (to put lots of spin). Plus I find there's a lot more room for error when using this "digging" method. This is what I normally do. I tried the technique in the video today and it produced a shot with less spin but a higher trajectory.

As I played around with it I realized the softer and slower I go into the downswing (floating into it really slow), the higher the trajectory. This would make the ball go shorter so I would simply take a longer swing. Getting used to the feel of a slow long swing is tough, but this was my first day trying it. I always wondered why a tour pro on a 5 yard pitch would take such a long slow swing when he was short sided. Now I know. Today I was hitting 20y pitches that went at least 20y in the air. Landed nice and soft and it felt quite good because that's the only way I could ever stop it (the shot I was working on that comes to mind is 5y of green to work with slightly down hill to the pin, I am pitching from 20y away in the rough). Using my normal method which is just a shorter back swing and to swing through much faster, I can never get that high of a trajectory, and the ball always rolls past (no spin from rough) unless I land it in the fringe luckily. But yeah, enough of me.


Just curious, why is digging bad? We dig on our full swing shots, why not pitch shots? I find it puts more spin than simply letting the club bounce off the turf.

Or am I still misunderstanding..

And your basically saying this is the method you use for most of your short game shots? When do you not use it? Like a really short bump and run for instance?

I've always considered myself a good chipper (ball back in stance, tight lie, fly ball to hole and check up instantly), but not so great at pitching. So sorry about all the questions over a simple video (i guess not so simple for me), I'm just trying to improve :)
post #26 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
Off of tight lies there wasn't much room for error though. If I miss just slightly, it's thinned.
I don't have video of your practice and I wasn't there, but I'd wager that you were doing it wrong and that if I or Dave or Stan Utley or whomever was there with you, we'd have been able to point out why it was wrong pretty quickly.

From the rough it sounds like you swung differently. More below...

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
Just curious, why is digging bad? We dig on our full swing shots, why not pitch shots? I find it puts more spin than simply letting the club bounce off the turf.

Or am I still misunderstanding...
Using the leading edge is bad because if you hit the ball a half inch heavy it's not going anywhere - the leading edge will dig into the ground and the ball might go only a few feet. Hit the ball a half inch thin and you're 20 yards over the green or worse.

Using the bounce you can hit a half inch behind the ball or more and be fine, and if you're trying to use the bounce the angle of attack into the ball is not nearly so downward so even a half inch thin will still send the ball up a lot more than forward.

Your hands are still ahead of the ball - and the low point should still be just ahead of the ball - with this shot, but think about it: if the shaft lean is 4 degrees with a sand wedge, that still leaves 6-10 degrees of bounce on a sand wedge that has 10-14 degrees bounce...

We dig on our full shots for a variety of reasons, namely that we're trying to compress the ball and our 5-iron doesn't have 10 or 12 or 14 degrees of bounce.

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
And your basically saying this is the method you use for most of your short game shots? When do you not use it? Like a really short bump and run for instance?
Just about the only times I don't use it are when I need to send the ball really, really low.

And given the margin for error this shot provides, I'd almost rather try to fly the ball farther with this shot than try a low chip. I prefer chips from the rough because the ball can sit up and you can hit slightly fat and the leading edge won't dig as there's no ground to dig into - just the bottom of the grass.

If I had to guess, you're "hitting" your pitch shots - particularly the ones from the tighter lies.

I can hit pitch shots from the putting green, loft the ball up into the air, and leave only little scuff marks because the leading edge never touches the ground. Just the relatively flat bounce portion of the club.
post #27 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

I appreciate the response. The wedge I use for most all short game shots is a 60/7. So maybe that's why I was having trouble with it? I doubt it though. Probably just the technique.

I'll get some DTL (so you can see the shot) and face on (so you can see the motion) of me pitching once I get a camera. I've been saving for it.
post #28 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by MJP View Post
I'll get some DTL (so you can see the shot) and face on (so you can see the motion) of me pitching once I get a camera. I've been saving for it.
Your wedge sounds fine. I use a 54/12 or 54/10 most of the time. I took some more video today and will post it when I can cobble it together.
post #29 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

I've had fantastic results with this. Best pitching advice I've had yet.

Can you have that float loading motion with a full swing? Or will the timing be too hard?
post #30 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by Easy View Post
Can you have that float loading motion with a full swing? Or will the timing be too hard?
Float loading comes from the full swing motion. However you need it back near the top of the backswing. It's a bit different, but basically you'll delay the cocking/hinging of the wrists until near the top of the backswing and your hips will already have started forward.
post #31 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Thanks for the video! I tried out the floaty today and I really did see a nice improvement. I didn't skull a single chip today! Wooo-hoo! haha. I was having trouble after watching Phil talk about H&H (Hinge and Hold) but, this video resonated with me.
post #32 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Here's another video. The first attempt was 22 minutes long, the second was 16, and this is 11, so needless to say if my voice sounds strained it's because of that and the fact that I was trying to be somewhat quiet with my kid in the next room sleeping.

 

 

post #33 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Awesome video Erik!
What does the back stroke feel like to you? When I worked with Dave, he told me to feel the knuckles on my right hand facing downward. It gave me a good idea of what it's like to expose the bounce and to get the club head moving without the hands going back too far. Just curious to hear what your "feel" is.
post #34 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Very good video Erik. I have a question about distance. Often when people demonstrate chipping and pitching, they hit the ball 10+ yards. Those longer shots usually works out well since I feel I can be more aggressive and have more speed coming through the ball. Where I struggle is with the shorter chips where you have to be very cute. I often end up being afraid of hitting it too far, and end up blading the ball or something like that.

Do you use the same motion when hitting a 2-3 yard chip/pitch out of rough, fairway or whatever, just changing the backswing length and speed?

Most of the time when chipping, I'm just of the green and may not want to carry the ball all that far. Perhaps I'm chipping onto a downhill green, where I have to be very careful with the speed.
post #35 of 541

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
Very good video Erik. I have a question about distance. Often when people demonstrate chipping and pitching, they hit the ball 10+ yards. Those longer shots usually works out well since I feel I can be more aggressive and have more speed coming through the ball. Where I struggle is with the shorter chips where you have to be very cute. I often end up being afraid of hitting it too far, and end up blading the ball or something like that.

Do you use the same motion when hitting a 2-3 yard chip/pitch out of rough, fairway or whatever, just changing the backswing length and speed?

Most of the time when chipping, I'm just of the green and may not want to carry the ball all that far. Perhaps I'm chipping onto a downhill green, where I have to be very careful with the speed.
this is a good question. I too know I cant get cute with the chip because il probably duff it and so I hit it and alot of times it goes too far
post #36 of 541
Thread Starter 

Re: Quickie Pitching Video

Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
Awesome video Erik!
What does the back stroke feel like to you? When I worked with Dave, he told me to feel the knuckles on my right hand facing downward. It gave me a good idea of what it's like to expose the bounce and to get the club head moving without the hands going back too far. Just curious to hear what your "feel" is.
That's a good feeling, and I use that feeling when I want to really drag the clubhead in low and inside for an even higher shot. But I don't want to feel that on a normal pitch shot because what feels natural to me is already very much where I want to be, so adding that feeling over-does it for a stock pitch (in my motion).

In other words, that feeling doesn't have the clubhead riding up the plane - it has the clubface opening a little and the clubhead, if the golfer gets to P2 on a pitch, being behind the hands a little bit more than on a full-swing. Since that's something I constantly watch for on the full-swing, "natural" to me is a bit behind the hands anyway. That's why I could probably hinge the wrists a little more quickly as well - because I could also hinge them a little more quickly in the full swing too.

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
Where I struggle is with the shorter chips where you have to be very cute. I often end up being afraid of hitting it too far, and end up blading the ball or something like that.
I understand. In those cases I feel as if my pivot through is very, very small and very, very slow, and that the ONLY thing getting the club to the ground is gravity. No added wrist or anything else. And the transition can't be jerky, of course.

Additionally, low hands will add loft and thus let you make a slightly more aggressive motion. A short pitch from really thick rough becomes so, so, so much easier when you can use loft and bounce to swing rather briskly with some confidence.

Towards the end of the day I practiced hitting some shots which missed the roof of the area seen in the videos by a foot or two. Dave and I tried to hit the ball as high as we could using a launch monitor once - he got to 75° and I got to 73, which is pretty high considering that the friction of the ball on the face (path) still accounts for SOME of the ball's initial direction.

Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
Most of the time when chipping, I'm just of the green and may not want to carry the ball all that far. Perhaps I'm chipping onto a downhill green, where I have to be very careful with the speed.
And if the ball's sitting up in the rough a bit, a chipping (leading edge) motion is fine, because there's some margin for error, right.

P.S. More generally, practice hitting a pitch shot that goes one yard. You can even do it in your house. Feel all the same components - wrist hinge, lag, pivot, soft arms and elbows - and try to hit the ball almost nowhere.
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