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Quickie Pitching Video - Golf Pitch Shot Technique - Page 18

post #307 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

Ernest....you and everyone else  make this whole discussion sound as if what I am saying isn't supported by top names in golf.

 

So I guess these top names don't count? Do you have any idea how many guys Sieckmann teaches?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

Then I guess you have never seen/heard Phil Rogers, Mac O'Grady, Seve, Stan Utley, James Sieckmann or Gabriel Hjertstedt 

 

Seve

 

post #308 of 541

MVMAC....it would be very interesting to see where  these guys say  that any normal shot should employ a flip.The words "don't flip" are everywhere.I have only seen it once when Leadbetter said it had to be done in a tricky bunker lie.

post #309 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

MVMAC....it would be very interesting to see where  these guys say  that any normal shot should employ a flip.The words "don't flip" are everywhere.I have only seen it once when Leadbetter said it had to be done in a tricky bunker lie.

Who gives a rat ass what they say, WHAT DO THEY DO??? That is the question and the answer. 

 

And by normal shot...I assume you realize we are, and have always been, discussing pitch shots.

post #310 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

MVMAC....it would be very interesting to see where  these guys say  that any normal shot should employ a flip.The words "don't flip" are everywhere.I have only seen it once when Leadbetter said it had to be done in a tricky bunker lie.

 

Please define "flipping." I gave you two examples above; you're free to make your own third one.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Who gives a rat ass what they say, WHAT DO THEY DO??? That is the question and the answer. 

 

And by normal shot...I assume you realize we are, and have always been, discussing pitch shots.

 

Quoted so there's a chance you see it and answer it. You've pretty much failed to answer any of the questions I've asked of you.

post #311 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Please define "flipping." I gave you two examples above; you're free to make your own third one.

 

When the left wrist begins to collapse creating a smaller angle between the back of the hand and lower forearm.

post #312 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

When the left wrist begins to collapse creating a smaller angle between the back of the hand and lower forearm.

 

Thanks. My next question is "when does this occur in order to qualify as flipping?"

 

Because this happens - the lead wrist goes into extension (dorsiflexion) - in virtually every good golf swing, pitching motion, putting motion, etc.

 

For example, I've shared video of ME hitting pitch shots where this has not happened PRIOR to impact, but is in the process of doing so, and becomes evident AFTER impact.

post #313 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Thanks. My next question is "when does this occur in order to qualify as flipping?"

 

Because this happens - the lead wrist goes into extension (dorsiflexion) - in virtually every good golf swing, pitching motion, putting motion, etc.

 

For example, I've shared video of ME hitting pitch shots where this has not happened PRIOR to impact, but is in the process of doing so, and becomes evident AFTER impact.

Yes iacas you have hit the nail on the head,"in the process of doing so"....if it is in the process then we are dealing with a tricky uncertain timing issue on the way to impact.

post #314 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

Yes iacas you have hit the nail on the head,"in the process of doing so"....if it is in the process then we are dealing with a tricky uncertain timing issue on the way to impact.

 

Almost every golf shot is hit while the lead wrist is "in the process of doing so." Full swings (look at wrist graphs), putting (less so, but it's just a putting motion, so everything is minimized), chipping, pitching, etc.

 

I have not "flipped" prior to impact in the pitching technique I teach.

post #315 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Almost every golf shot is hit while the lead wrist is "in the process of doing so." Full swings (look at wrist graphs), putting (less so, but it's just a putting motion, so everything is minimized), chipping, pitching, etc.

 

I have not "flipped" prior to impact in the pitching technique I teach.

 

Well I don't really want to open another can of worms but there is a difference between in the process of  flipping and the hands turning over.

post #316 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post

 

Well I don't really want to open another can of worms but there is a difference between in the process of  flipping and the hands turning over.

 

It's off topic, so we can end it after this post, but I'm not talking about the hands "turning over." I'm specifically talking about the lead wrist doing what's shown in the top right picture here:

 

 

It happens in almost every golf swing.

 


 

Back to the topic of pitching… I'm quite satisfied that your original position has been sufficiently demonstrated to be wrong.

post #317 of 541

I knew I heard a reel singing in the background.:-D 

post #318 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It's off topic, so we can end it after this post, but I'm not talking about the hands "turning over." I'm specifically talking about the lead wrist doing what's shown in the top right picture here:

 

 

It happens in almost every golf swing.

 


 

Back to the topic of pitching… I'm quite satisfied that your original position has been sufficiently demonstrated to be wrong.

 

Very good graphic...the ulnar deviation returns to a neutral position while the extension holds on to stop the flip for a pitch...in the Tiger Dubai shot he is holding on to both the deviation and extension through impact.

 

I am very pleased that you are satisfied.

post #319 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post

The only difference is the chip is low and running while the pitch is airbourne.No flip needed to get the ball in the air.

That's quite a large "only difference."

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

WHAT FLIP?

Beyond that though, remember, this whole conversation is in response to your contention that the pitching technique that @iacas posted wasn't going to be useful off of a tight lie. Unless you don't think that plywood in the driveway makes for a tight lie, you have to admit that your premise was wrong.....

And FWIW, I'd love to hear your thoughts, and see your examples and demonstrations (as I've provided), rather than every silly Youtube video that you can find. You're a smart guy and likely more knowledgeable than I am. Let's hear from you.

c2_beer.gif

I'd like to see a video of @freedrop hitting a pitch.
post #320 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post

 

Very good graphic...the ulnar deviation returns to a neutral position while the extension holds on to stop the flip for a pitch...in the Tiger Dubai shot he is holding on to both the deviation and extension through impact.

 

Wrong. Tiger is not maintaining the same amount of extension on his pitch shot. His lead wrist extension is increasing throughout the downstroke and follow-through. Again, there are plenty of graphs containing actual measurements which show this very clearly.

post #321 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Wrong. Tiger is not maintaining the same amount of extension on his pitch shot. His lead wrist extension is increasing throughout the downstroke and follow-through. Again, there are plenty of graphs containing actual measurements which show this very clearly.

Ok,then what about general wrist control ,also incorrectly known as good hands.

post #322 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

Ok,then what about general wrist control

 

What about it? You've asked too general a question.

 

The pitching technique I teach - the same as is used by Tiger, was used by Seve, and many others - doesn't involve the feel of  much active use of the wrists. It tends to feel more passive, like "gravity" is helping to release the lag. Because the bottom of the swing is the bottom of the swing, the timing is rather simple and tends to work out. In fact, the times when it doesn't work out, people solve the problem by trying to "control" their wrists even less.

post #323 of 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

What about it? You've asked too general a question.

 

The pitching technique I teach - the same as is used by Tiger, was used by Seve, and many others - doesn't involve the feel of  much active use of the wrists. It tends to feel more passive, like "gravity" is helping to release the lag. Because the bottom of the swing is the bottom of the swing, the timing is rather simple and tends to work out. In fact, the times when it doesn't work out, people solve the problem by trying to "control" their wrists even less.

Ok, we could go on forever,but I am satisfied with my point of view as you are with yours.

post #324 of 541
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrop View Post
 

Ok, we could go on forever,but I am satisfied with my point of view as you are with yours.

 

I'm very satisfied, and have the golfer feedback, compliments, dropped handicaps, etc. to back up that satisfaction.


Cheers.

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