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My Swing (mdl) - Page 2

post #19 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

 

Actually, I'd seen my club head getting under plane at A2 and I've been working a lot to fix that, doing lots of pre-shot stuff swinging back just to A2 trying to have the club parallel to the target line there.  But to accomplish that I've just been yanking my right elbow back even further, getting me even more stuck behind and across the line at the top even when I don't get as under plane at A2 as I am in the vids.  

 

 

Yeah there are a few ways to get the club more "up" by A2, "lawn mowing" the right elbow can change the pic to a certain extent but I don't recommend it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

 

One other question.  I tend to break my wrists late, so my currently natural point for A2 is with the hands higher than Erik's or most other good golfers.  I've always told myself, hey, Stricker does it, that's not causing my issues.  Will it help me shift to consistently do as suggested in the video (turn at a faster rate and keep my elbows closer together so I don't draw the right elbow back too far and get stuck behind) to also work on breaking my wrists a bit earlier and getting to A2 with my hands lower?

 

 

I did notice what was going on with A2 but I don't want to get into too many details now.

 

I do think working on the stuff I suggested will help though.

 

When you take the next video, make sure to take slow, 50% speed swings with something in that right arm pit. I'm not concerned with what the ball does with these initial swings, more about seeing how implementing these pieces changes the picture.

post #20 of 51
Thread Starter 

Just had time for 10-12 birdieballs in the back yard as it was getting dark last night, so no new video.  But it was extremely encouraging.  Narrow stance feels weird, and made the rear foot flare feel even more unnatural.  Had to stop right before a couple swings to adjust those things.  But feels so much more free, less stressful and jerky, with the increased freedom that gives in the hips.  With the stance, flare, and concentrating just on keeping the elbows closer together and maintaining extension, the swing felt great and the results were surprisingly great considering the changes.  Better and earlier rotation and what I think was a more parallel to the target line position at A2 felt pretty natural given those things.  Hit maybe 8 of those swings with a glove under my rear armpit.  Glove ended up somewhere between a tad behind even with my front foot and several feet in front of me.

 

Will try to get more videos tonight or tomorrow.

post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

Just had time for 10-12 birdieballs in the back yard as it was getting dark last night, so no new video.  But it was extremely encouraging.  Narrow stance feels weird, and made the rear foot flare feel even more unnatural.  Had to stop right before a couple swings to adjust those things.  But feels so much more free, less stressful and jerky, with the increased freedom that gives in the hips.  With the stance, flare, and concentrating just on keeping the elbows closer together and maintaining extension, the swing felt great and the results were surprisingly great considering the changes.  Better and earlier rotation and what I think was a more parallel to the target line position at A2 felt pretty natural given those things.  Hit maybe 8 of those swings with a glove under my rear armpit.  Glove ended up somewhere between a tad behind even with my front foot and several feet in front of me.

 

 

Yeah the stance/setup stuff will feel weird for a little while. Good to hear things went well. Keep it up!

post #22 of 51
Thread Starter 

New swing vids with the glove under the arm.  Looking at them these probably don't qualify quite as 50%, but they were significantly less than full for sure.  Not sure what to think.  Almost all the shots I hit this morning were straight pushes or pushed baby draws.  Felt a little more awkward than last night.  To me looks like elbow and plane have at least improved slightly, but with the narrower stance it looks more flippy and like I'm not using my core/hips very well.

 

 

post #23 of 51

Right elbow is better but the hands are still too far inward, wrists don't really hinge at all and that pulls the head down.  I thought the different elbow position with the better pivot would help more, it didn't, so you just have to train it in there ;-)  

 

Going to film something for you today, overall it's going to feel like the wrists are hinging more, earlier, thumbs up feeling, "softer right arm" and that hands are more "in front of you". Rather than having no wrist hinge, hands get too deep, then they have to lift. I just said a bunch of stuff but it will basically be blended into one or two feels. 

post #24 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

 

Going to film something for you today, overall it's going to feel like the wrists are hinging more, earlier, thumbs up feeling, "softer right arm" and that hands are more "in front of you". Rather than having no wrist hinge, hands get too deep, then they have to lift. I just said a bunch of stuff but it will basically be blended into one or two feels. 

 

Just the phrase hands too deep is blowing my mind.  That plus the "then they have to lift" is totally changing the way I see my swing on the video above.  Looking forward to the vid.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice!

post #25 of 51

One thing I forgot to mention, make practice swings with your forehead against a wall. Will really help feel the correct rates of the pivot. You head is going to want to press into the wall at first. Take note of how it feels to make a full turn but keep the forehead gently against the wall.

 

So

- Wall drill

- Slow down the rate the knees change flex on the takeaway, from A1-2

- Arms/hands feel like they go straight back. Hands stay in front our your chest.

- Two ball drill. I wouldn't worry about "thinking" about the wrists hinging right now, just do the drill. Focus should be more on the pivot and hands feeling like they go straight back. 

 

 

 

 

post #26 of 51
Thread Starter 

Wow.  Awesome.  Thanks Mike.  Can't wait to get out and work with this.

post #27 of 51
Thread Starter 

Man, lots of work to do...

 

Had a couple sessions with the camera this weekend.  Have to feel almost like I'm lifting my arms straight out over the ball to have my hands even with just my rear shoulder at A3, much less a bit towards my left shoulder.  And I've gotta work really hard to both not have too deep hands at A2 but also not over roll my wrists and get my club head under plane there (though that's still WAY better than before).  On top of that, unless I work trying to feel almost like I'm trying to poke myself in my right ear with my left thumb, I still will make nice practice motions to A2 and A3 but then barely hinge my wrist at all until too late in the actual swing.  Worst of all, even when I get pretty solid positions at A2 and A3, I'll still then lift my arms, dip my head, let my right elbow fly out, and come across the line and (usually) past parallel at A4.

 

Current work is continuing conscious drilling positions at A2 and A3 but also keeping the elbows very tight together consciously not just from A1 to A3 but especially from A3 to A4.  This seems to naturally shorten the back swing a bit and fight the lift and cross move I've ingrained for so long.  Also still working the head drill as it seems like the head dip also contributes to that lift and cross move at the top.  Will post more video when I feel like I'm getting close with the changes I'm working on right now.

post #28 of 51
Thread Starter 

Still lots of work to do.  This is more of a logging current progress post.  Feeling pretty good about A2 and A3, even A3.5.  Still finishing the backswing dipping down the whole left side and head a bit, which I think is contributing to issues down the line.  Have been prioritizing ingraining the feeling of the arms and hands from A1 to A4, so gotta up the wall drill practice and focus more on that stuff too.  Current thoughts with that are trying to feel like I'm finishing off the back swing rotation getting my back hip high instead of my front shoulder and head (and hip) low.

 

Also don't feel like I'm getting enough rotation or thrust from A6 to A7 (impact), finishing by pulling my arms through at the end and not getting good extension from A7 to A8.  Feeling like the butt getting a bit too off the wall may be making it hard not to do that.  When I concentrate on extension (haven't been thinking much about spine angle or butt on the wall) I'm hitting straight pushes.

 

Anyway, here's the current swing.

 

post #29 of 51

Nice work, def looking better.

 

What I see for the next piece.

 

Would like to see the back swing stop here (left pic). Elbow start to pull apart, hands get close to you right shoulder. This causes you to "pull" on the handle and gets the shaft steep on the downswing. When the shaft is steep it makes it harder to get the weight forward and do the thrust piece because you have to tip back to try and shallow out the hit.

 

So I would recommend working not changing the distance between the elbows from A1-4. In reality they will gain some distance but it will feel like they stay close together. Will lessen the "pull" on the downswing and give you a better chance at keeping the head steady as you transfer forward.

 

What I mean by "tipping" back.

post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 

Thanks Mike!  I'd noticed that pull move I do just after the top and the steepness that gives me at A5.  Obviously my thinking was that I would need to just concentrate on more weight forward, thrust, and rotation and feel a more around down swing, a flatter plane.  As usual, my self diagnosis had the problem one or two steps too late in the swing.

 

That move from what should be A4 to A4+ is maddeningly hard for me to stop.  Especially since it still feels very manual to get to good positions at A2-A4.  Takes all my concentration still to get the wrists moving early to a nice position at A2 and then I have to feel sort of like I'm rolling my whole front arm to push my hands out towards the target line from A2 all the way up to A4 to keep my hands from getting behind at A3 and from coming across the line at A4.

 

I'll see what trying to add in the elbow squeeze all the way up to A4 does.  Hopefully that encourages an earlier stop to the back swing and discourages that last minute dip and over swing to the current top.  I've tried just more manually trying to force myself to not swing so far back.  But say I want to swing back 90% of what I am currently.  I've found that I pretty much only ever achieve a literal half swing, stopping around A3, or going back no less than 98% as far as I am now with the manual forced stop approach.  Makes sense that this is because I let my elbow fly at A3.5 and sort of dip out of the way of what will be the end of the back swing that way, so I'm a bit hopeful.

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

 

That move from what should be A4 to A4+ is maddeningly hard for me to stop.  Especially since it still feels very manual to get to good positions at A2-A4.  Takes all my concentration still to get the wrists moving early to a nice position at A2 and then I have to feel sort of like I'm rolling my whole front arm to push my hands out towards the target line from A2 all the way up to A4 to keep my hands from getting behind at A3 and from coming across the line at A4.

 

 

In case you haven't see it, check this out

 

 Change the Dang Picture! 

post #32 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

In case you haven't see it, check this out

 

 Change the Dang Picture! 

 

Hmm... Interesting.  Perhaps the reason I've improved so much from A1 to A3.5 and not so much after that is because I've been obsessively doing that sequence slow motion, both all the way through and stopping at A2 and A3, but have only thought about feels and done it at full speed changes in A3.5-finish.

 

On the slow swing it feels like my back swing stops itself at about A3.5 (presumably cause I have been consciously thinking about elbows together through that sequence).  Then I take a full swing, go past what I've ingrained, fly the elbow past A3.5, pull and get steep, and then try to recover.  Maybe I should slow mo the whole swing!  I think the key for me is that I've only tried stopping short manually, but with the elbow flying out stopping at the right point feels like I've stopped well short of finishing the torque/load on the back swing, so I get all out of sequence on the down swing.  Either I start with the lower body and sort of let the upper body stay still and finish the torque/load as the body gets going, and then my hands get stuck behind and I hit pushes or hooks (presumably cause I tip back trying to force the face close?).  Or I pull the arms down manually and come OTT and hit pull draws.

 

With the elbow in close and a slow motion back swing I feel like I'm done my torque/load much earlier.  I think doing slow swings all the way through where the elbow never flies might let me ingrain the feeling of finishing the back swing and torque/load properly with the rear elbow still in, and ingrain what the transition from there feels like.  Thanks for the link!

post #33 of 51

Also, back up two or three inches and take a little flex out of your knees. :)

post #34 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

Also, back up two or three inches and take a little flex out of your knees. :)

 

Hmm...  I've played with backing up a tad but when I saw the videos of that I was worried my knees were too straight!  So back a couple inches and less knee flex should mean a little more spine angle?  Hands a tad farther away from me at address too, or just more spine angle?

 

Anyway, always a dangerous move getting out on the course in the middle of major swing changes, but I hadn't played in a couple weeks and I was getting bored just practicing so I went out yesterday.  And my handicap's been really climbing anyway with my solo feels/outcomes only major swing work and then shifting back to video work with help from here (okay, pretty much from Mike, thanks!).

 

Was concentrating mostly on elbows tight and the sort of roll feeling I've found through video work that correlates with my not coming across the line.  Didn't take any video but seems to have worked at least decently as I only saw my club head once or twice -- I can usually see it when I over swing and come across the line, though that's not a perfect indicator -- and I could feel the difference on those shots.  Also had to add in the left hip to left field line upper deck feel that we've talked about.  I know, probably too many thoughts on the course.  But it really came together on the back nine and was super encouraging.  Lots of excellent tee shots, a few excellent approaches and mostly very playable mistakes (and on 14 I hit a perfect push draw 7i approach right over the center-ish flag about 15 yards farther than normal and cleared the green, didn't get up and down).

 

Feels a little of a bummer to feel encouraged by an 86 at an easy course, but, you know, mental game!  And that back nine should have scored even better.  Had small misses on the approaches on 14 and 17, got the chip on 14 to 4 feet and missed the putt and flubbed the very short chip on 17 and barely got it on the green, 2-putted from ~20 feet.  Then on 18 I hit a nice drive slightly right so I had to come in from ~50 yards over a bunker with a big lip where I couldn't spot my landing spot (a major weakness of my short game is when I can't see my landing spot) and hit into the wet sand bunker (forgot to mark that one down below).  Point is, on the back the full swing felt good, most misses were very playable, but a couple short game mistakes and the putter was very cold -- missed a ton of straightforward 4-8 footers yesterday -- so the back felt more like a 36 or 37.

 

 

Now back to the video work...

post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

Was concentrating mostly on elbows tight and the sort of roll feeling I've found through video work that correlates with my not coming across the line.  

 

Yeah go with one swing thought at the most when playing, nice back nine.

post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 

Alright, some new vids.  Not really sure if I've accomplished what was set out as my priority piece.  Swing looks shorter and elbows tighter to me, but maybe not enough?  I've tried lots of stuff to work on this.  Slow swings.  Stopping at the top and swinging from there (that really helped shorten the swing).  Even made myself a little rope loop and swing with it just above the elbows to feel what actually not separating the elbows at all feels like.  Have been doing at least a few warm up swings with that most sessions.

 

Also looks to me like I'm still too steep at A5.  Not sure the path to fixing that at this point, and the things I've tried either didn't work or shifted a ton of things and felt awful so I didn't want to ingrain something weird I wasn't sure of.

 

I've also been accentuating the front foot flare.  I think that's helped me clear the hips better, tip back less, and get the face closed more naturally, but I still don't like the way my swing looks from A5.5 through impact.  Not sure where to go from here.  Hence the post...

 

As far as results, on the course has been super variable, from decent – shot 82 in my last tourney round, though at an easy, but long, course – to disgusting – last round was a 97 at a tough new course with 0 GIR and four penalties.  In practice I'll have some great days.  Misses are sometimes still the big push, sometimes a big straight draw or pull draw.  The stretches in practice of staying in the baby push draw shot cone I'm looking for have become more frequent.  Haven't been able to bring those to the course with any club but the driver yet, and even with the old swing I could have great streaks with that club.

 

 

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