Golf Digest Instructor Interviews - Bad Advice

**B-Con** · October 15, 2010

In Golf Digest's November publication, they interviewed "40 great golf instructors under [the age of] 40". Each of the instructors gave a brief "2-minute" tip in the form of a paragraph or two of text. You can read them all

online here . There were some good tips in there. Some tips I'd heard before, some I'd figured out the hard way. But there were several that contained advice that I thought was poor. I know, I know, a golf magazine with bad swing advice; hardly news worthy. But these were statements coming from $150/hr swing teachers hand-picked for their quality. I'm far from a swing expert, but some statements simply left me doing a double-take. I've copied the questionable advice here (I used the author quote blocks to set them apart and attribute them to the appropriate instructor), emphasized the phrases of interest, and commented on why I disagree. I'm interested in hearing other's thoughts on these. I know that just one or two paragraphs isn't a lot of room to give golf advice so I omitted any that seemed possibly too vague. These are tips that, to me, seem blatantly bad.

If your eyes stay level and parallel to the target line, you'll maintain your balance and body angles for an on-plane swing. With a driver, focus on the back of the ball for an ascending blow. With irons, focus on the top of the ball for a descending blow.

Wouldn't that be the other way around? You will tend to swing through the area you look at. If you look at the inside you will have a tendency to swing more to the inside, favoring an out-to-in swing path. If you look at the outside you will have a tendency to swing more to the outside, favoring an in-to-out swing path.

The most common slicing mistake is a weak grip.

My guess is that majority of this forum will disagree with his statement that "The most common slicing mistake is a weak grip." The majority (everything? I can't think of any exceptions) of what I've seen Eric post on the subject disagrees with it.

His fix tip seems to be a method to get the left wrist flatter -- I'm not sure how else one could get the heel to lead the takeaway, trying to do it with a cupped wrist seems like it'd be awkward as the hands would stay ahead of the clubhead. I agree that getting a flat wrist is a good thing, and if the golfer's problem is truely an open clubface then it will possibly help fix the problem. But, and this is my second issue with his advice, if the problem is not an open clubface, then flattening the wrist will close the clubface and result in pulls. His advice is incomplete and produces no beneficial results if applied to someone who doesn't have one exact (not so common) problem.

The conventional advice of accelerating the putter through impact, especially on speedy greens, is risky. From my experience teaching on the super-fast surfaces at Oakmont, most three-putts come from poor speed, not poor direction. A pendulum motion is the way to putt fast greens. Your putter should move in a calm, gliding motion,

That's the first time I've heard someone actually advise decelerating through any swing. First, I'm a firm believer that an accelerating club is easier to hold on path than a decelerating club. Second, that just seems like it sets the golfer up so that he can spontaneously make up his mind about whether he wants to accelerate, hold, or decelerate through impact, and last-second decisions are no way to groove a swing. Third, why not just advise golfers who over-accelerate to hold a steady stroke and adopt a mental trick or two to slowing down their swing? Having them adjust their actual swing seems unnecessary when the issue is strength.

People talk about the importance of ball position in the short game, especially in putting, but often in terms of where the ball is located in the stance. The problem is, there's no standard for stance width, so this system is imprecise. Instead,

I put the ball under my left eye, but that's as far forward as I dare move it. All the way under the left ear, and now the head is over the back of a blade putter. I know some people prefer that style, but to recommend everyone play that? I think gating putters will dislike that ball placement in general. (But I could be wrong.)

When hitting a longer iron, the bottom of the swing should be in line with your left shoulder. Play the ball

High-handicappers tend to move the ball position around after a few bad shots. Don't be tempted to do this; instead, let the ball position teach you where you should be at impact.

I put these together since they're basically the same thing. You should hit long irons with a ball just two inches inside the left heel? That's as far forward as I position the ball for my driver. Are they talking about 2 or 3 irons, or do that seriously mean I should have the ball that far forward for my 5 iron?

When you hit a short pitch shot fat, you're typically catching the ground with the leading edge of the clubface.

I would disagree that that's what causes a fat shot. Hands ahead of the ball and hitting down on the ball are desirable traits in full iron swings, why would they go wrong with a shorter pitch? The recent pitching videos from Erik have been an eye opener, I realize that leading hands and divots are unnecessary for pitching and not even the most forgiving method for it, but I don't believe that they're the cause of fat pitches. Someone who's hitting fat on pitches likely isn't doing so because their hands are too far ahead of the ball and the leading edge is causing them to grab more dirt before the ball than they would with a club with less leading edge.

--------------------------------------- Anyone with other thoughts on these tips?

**halcon** · October 15, 2010

I don't think that this is all bad advice, but maybe some of these tips need more explanation, and maybe I can help with a few:

Originally Posted by A.J. Avoli If your eyes stay level and parallel to the target line, you'll maintain your balance and body angles for an on-plane swing. With a driver, focus on the back of the ball for an ascending blow. With irons, focus on the top of the ball for a descending blow. For a draw, look at the inside part; for a fade, the outside part.

To hit a draw, the club face must be

closed relative to the swing path . Then, if you swing more in-to-out (by focusing on the inside part of the ball) you are favoring a draw, and the opposite is true for a fade. If we assume that the club face is aiming at the target during impact, the more in-to-out the swing path, the more draw; more out-to-in, more fade.

Originally Posted by Alex Murray People talk about the importance of ball position in the short game, especially in putting, but often in terms of where the ball is located in the stance. The problem is, there's no standard for stance width, so this system is imprecise. Instead, focus on setting up with the ball below your left ear. If you're not doing that, you're probably compensating during the stroke. With the ball too far forward, your tendency will be to miss left; too far back, and you'll miss right.

The lowest point of the swing should be somewhere under the left armpit. This makes sense if you consider your left arm is extended until the club has passed the ball by a few feet, so the lowest point is when the left arm is pointing down. Of course the swing is dynamic and a little more complicated than my explanation, but generally speaking, there is where the lowest point should be.

I said "it should be" because this is not the case for maybe the majority of the players; for example, if a player is doing a reverse pivot (not transferring the weight to the front), then the low point of the swing will be well behind the left armpit (or the left ear). This advice is correct, but assumes that the golfer is doing a proper weight transition during the downswing.

Originally Posted by Sam Kern When hitting a longer iron, the bottom of the swing should be in line with your left shoulder. Play the ball just behind this position, because contact should come on the downward part of the swing arc but very close to the bottom. As you swing, stay centered just behind the ball, and keep the club's grip in front of the clubhead through the strike. This ensures that the bottom of your swing stays in front of the ball for solid ball-striking.

Originally Posted by V.J. Trolio High-handicappers tend to move the ball position around after a few bad shots. Don't be tempted to do this; instead, let the ball position teach you where you should be at impact. In a proper setup with an iron, the ball should be two inches inside your left heel. Find that spot, and leave the ball there, no matter what's going on with your swing.

This is the same as the previous advice: in order to be true, you need a good swing, otherwise the low point is not where it should be. I prefer the previous reference point (under the left ear or under the left armpit) since the stance varies with every club, but I think this is a personal preference.

Originally Posted by Chris O'Connell When you hit a short pitch shot fat, you're typically catching the ground with the leading edge of the clubface. Your hands are too far ahead of the ball at impact, so the leading edge digs. Try using the more-forgiving trailing edge. Set up with the ball in the middle of your stance and the grip pointing at the zipper of your pants. Place a dime two inches behind the ball, and practice hitting both the dime and ball to quit chunking.

According to Stan Utley, the difference between a pitch and a chip is that, in a pitch the club hits the ground and then the ball, and in a chip the ball is hit first. Of course this is only one definition for each shot, there might be others, but if we assume that the author had this is mind, then the advice makes sense: if you are trying to hit the ground first, don't hit it with the leading edge of the club, use the bounce instead. For a chip shot, the same as for a full swing, since the ball will be hit first, it's ok to use the leading edge.

I hope this helps, cheers!

**B-Con** · October 15, 2010

To hit a draw, the club face must be

My point is that I would think focusing on the inside of the ball would cause the opposite. If your natural tendency is to focus on the middle of the ball (or anywhere on the target line) and then hit through the middle of the ball, then wouldn't focusing on the inside of the ball cause you to tend to execute the same swing, just pulled inside a little, promoting a an out-to-in swing? Why look at the inside of the ball if your focus is to swing toward the outside?

The lowest point of the swing should be somewhere under the left armpit. This makes sense if you consider your left arm is extended until the club has passed the ball by a few feet, so the lowest point is when the left arm is pointing down. Of course the swing is dynamic and a little more complicated than my explanation, but generally speaking, there is where the lowest point should be.

This is the same as the previous advice: in order to be true, you need a good swing, otherwise the low point is not where it should be. I prefer the previous reference point (under the left ear or under the left armpit) since the stance varies with every club, but I think this is a personal preference.

That makes sense, I suppose I didn't think it through enough. I agree on the issues of weight transfer and low point, but my primary issue was that I haven't seen a pro line up a 5 iron just off the inside of their left foot before. I probably have a wider-than-average stance, so maybe that through me off when I visualized it.

According to Stan Utley, the difference between a pitch and a chip is that, in a pitch the club hits the ground and then the ball, and in a chip the ball is hit first. Of course this is only one definition for each shot, there might be others, but if we assume that the author had this is mind, then the advice makes sense:

Of course you shouldn't! That makes sense, but it assumes you're aiming for ground-first contact. I don't think many fat pitchers are actually aiming for ground-first contact. That seems to be more of a finese stroke by a skilled player.

In light of strict adherence to Utley's definition, if you're assuming the goal is ground-first contact then the statement makes a lot more sense.

**allin** · October 15, 2010

I agree with the putting one. I feel many of the golfers who conciously try to accelerate the putter over do it, leading to an uneven, jerky, even stabbing type of finish. I feel its better to maintain an even pace back and through. Studies have shown that most touring pros decelerate slightly. I wouldn't try to do this, especially since most of us play on significantly slower greens than they do. I do normally putt better on faster greens than slow ones.

**jamo** · October 15, 2010

I would disagree that that's what causes a fat shot. Hands ahead of the ball and hitting down on the ball are desirable traits in full iron swings, why would they go wrong with a shorter pitch? The recent pitching videos from Erik have been an eye opener, I realize that leading hands and divots are unnecessary for pitching and not even the most forgiving method for it, but I don't believe that they're the cause of fat pitches. Someone who's hitting fat on pitches likely isn't doing so because their hands are too far ahead of the ball and the leading edge is causing them to grab more dirt before the ball than they would with a club with less leading edge.

When you put your hands more forward you lessen the effective bounce of the club, which leaves you prone to leading into the ground with the leading edge, which promotes digging and thus fat shots. It's not the only thing that can cause fat shots, but it's one thing.

**mcgriff** · October 15, 2010

All their advice sounds perfectly reasonable to me. The fade/draw thing for example. Try to fade the ball with an in/out move. It can be done, sure, but you'd need a pretty open face at impact to pull it off. Slices/fades typically come from an out/in swing.

**TourSpoon** · October 15, 2010

My point is that I would think focusing on the inside of the ball would cause the opposite. If your natural tendency is to focus on the middle of the ball (or anywhere on the target line) and then hit through the middle of the ball, then wouldn't focusing on the inside of the ball cause you to tend to execute the same swing, just pulled inside a little, promoting a an out-to-in swing? Why look at the inside of the ball if your focus is to swing toward the outside?

This one has been around for a long time. It is a simple way of promoting a swing that works inside to out. By hitting the inside of the ball you are to feel like you are hitting towards one o'clock or second base. This tip is often given to people that are swinging from outside in that are coming over the top and swinging towards 11 o'clock. This tip is a simple visual cue that is used for people to try to understand swing path.

***iacas*** · October 15, 2010

Can't say I disagree too much with any except the "weak grip" one.

**JML22** · October 16, 2010

Yeah the strong grip thing to fix a slice is a bandaid fix

**halcon** · October 16, 2010

My point is that I would think focusing on the inside of the ball would cause the opposite. If your natural tendency is to focus on the middle of the ball (or anywhere on the target line) and then hit through the middle of the ball, then wouldn't focusing on the inside of the ball cause you to tend to execute the same swing, just pulled inside a little, promoting a an out-to-in swing? Why look at the inside of the ball if your focus is to swing toward the outside?

It's just an image to keep in your head to help promote an in-to-out swing, although it doesn't work for everybody. I use it, but sometimes it makes me leave the club face open, resulting in a nasty push-fade... so I guess I should look for a different tip

**B-Con** · October 18, 2010

I agree with the putting one. I feel many of the golfers who conciously try to accelerate the putter over do it, leading to an uneven, jerky, even stabbing type of finish. I feel its better to maintain an even pace back and through. Studies have shown that most touring pros decelerate slightly. I wouldn't try to do this, especially since most of us play on significantly slower greens than they do. I do normally putt better on faster greens than slow ones.

I was unaware of this.

When you put your hands more forward you lessen the effective bounce of the club, which leaves you prone to leading into the ground with the leading edge, which promotes digging and thus fat shots. It's not the only thing that can cause fat shots, but it's one thing.

I agree. But my reasoning was that players aiming for ball-first contact do want to have leading hands. Maybe a fat hitter has too much leading hands, but an amatuer aiming for ball-first contact with hands that are too far ahead of the ball to make good contact seems unlikely to me. If they're having fat shots when aiming for ball-first contact, I'd think it was for a number of other reasons unrelated to hands being ahead of the club. How many amateurs who hit fat even get their hands ahead of the clubhead?

And again, that all changes when they're aiming for ground-first contact. I agree that you want as little leading edge as possible to hit the ground in that scenario.

This one has been around for a long time. It is a simple way of promoting a swing that works inside to out. By hitting the inside of the ball you are to feel like you are hitting towards one o'clock or second base. This tip is often given to people that are swinging from outside in that are coming over the top and swinging towards 11 o'clock. This tip is a simple visual cue that is used for people to try to understand swing path.

Interesting. I much approach the mechanics of my swing path differently, because that tip has the opposite effect for me. If I'm at the range and want to hit a draw or hook, I focus on the outside of the ball, and (all else being executed properly) it works.

**keiko** · October 18, 2010

Shaft lean on short chips etc. can be most effective if one a. stands more upright and b. chokes up on the club some.
Exception is the flop shot where I like the shaft back behind the ball, I still choke up on the club and posture is upright but I take a fuller swing while setting up with an open club face and feet/shoulders very open.

2left · November 3, 2010

I think this goes to show that any written materials on golf will only get you so far. Unfortunately, we need to pay the $$ to have an instructor match his or her instruction to our particular swing, and explain in detail what that instruction actually means. It's like trying to find an article to cure a shank. The cure will work, if you know which of the multitude of possible reasons is actually causing you in particular to shank. And even advice as simple as "you're swinging out to in" is only an observation of the final direct cause. The initial cause might be a weak left hand grip, which causes an overly straightened wrist at setup, which makes you shift your weight too far over your toes at address, . . . and on and on.

**SteelCitySlice** · November 7, 2010

I agree with 2left above. Just like you need to be fitted for golf clubs because there is no perfect shaft, perfect wedge, perfect iron, ect...likewise not all teaching pros will work for everybody. In addition to that, these guys are trying to throw out blanket statements to improve a golf swing for people they've never seen actually swing the golf club. Some of these tips will work for you, some of them might make sense to you but you'd rather stick with what you've got, and some may not apply to you at all and probably hurt your golf swing more than help it (I've had experience with all of them). It's up to you to read them and decide if they're right for you. Definitely doesn't mean they are incorrect though...

**soloredd** · November 9, 2010

Yeah the strong grip thing to fix a slice is a bandaid fix

I can attest to this, and the band-aid doesn't stay on for long.

I think most tips/advice/etc is, as stated in the thread, blanket advice. It's also why I tend to not read too much into it. But, I can read one article on fixing something and someone else will read the same article and take away from it something totally different.

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