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Golf Rules Questions : Putting, Bunker, Out of Bounds, etc.


thomaskevan
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Hi,

Got a couple of questions regarding to rules of the game.

1. Do you get relief if your ball rest near a fence/gate that impedes your swing?

2. Can you mark your ball if your ball lies 1/4 on green & 3/4 on fringe?

3. If your ball is plugged on the fringe or the fairway, do you get relief? Lift, clean & place rules is NOT enforced.

4. Can you remove a leaf inside a bunker shot? The leaf is covering your ball.

5. Is your ball in bound if you hit the ball out of bound & hit the fence & hop back in bound?

6. If bunker is wet & unplayable, do you get relief if you hit it in the bunker? If you do, where can you drop ball?

Thanks in advance.
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Hi,

1. No, not free relief anyway.

2. No 3. yes 4. yes 5. yes 6. If the bunker has standing water, you can drop further back in a dry area of the bunker. Man, I hope I got at least 5/6 of these right!
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1. Do you get relief if your ball rest near a fence/gate that impedes your swing?

Yes, it is an immovable obstruction unless it is a fence marking OB or declared to be an integral part of the course. If it's a gate and you can swing it out of the way, then that is your relief. You also get relief if it impedes your stance, but in general you do not get relief for line of sight.

2. Can you mark your ball if your ball lies 1/4 on green & 3/4 on fringe?

Yes, if any part of your ball is touching the putting surface, it is on the green and may be marked and lifted.

3. If your ball is plugged on the fringe or the fairway, do you get relief? Lift, clean & place rules is NOT enforced.

Yes, you are always entitled to relief from a ball plugged in its own pitch mark on any closely mown area.

4. Can you remove a leaf inside a bunker shot? The leaf is covering your ball.

Yes, but only to the extent necessary to see a part of the ball. If you remove it in the process of locating and identifying the ball, you must replace it so that only a part of the ball is visible.

5. Is your ball in bound if you hit the ball out of bound & hit the fence & hop back in bound?

Yes, it makes no difference how the ball traveled, as long as it comes to rest in bounds.

6. If bunker is wet & unplayable, do you get relief if you hit it in the bunker? If you do, where can you drop ball?

"wet" and "unplayable" are not really precise enough to give a single answer. If you're lying in casual water in the bunker, then you are entitled to a free drop within the bunker not nearer the hole, either within a club length of the nearest point of complete relief, or if there is no point that gives complete relief, at the point giving maximum available relief. If you want to drop outside the bunker, it'll cost you a stroke and you drop as far back as you like along the line between the hole and where your ball lay.

If it's just wet but not casual water, then you do not get free relief, but you may take an unplayable lie penalty (dropping within the bunker if you use one of those options).

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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2. Can you mark your ball if your ball lies 1/4 on green & 3/4 on fringe?

If 1/4 is on the green and 3/4 is not, then the bottom of the ball, which would be the part touching the ground, would be off the green. So in this case the answer would be no, you cannot mark the ball.

Bill

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I thought you could mark your ball anywhere on the course if it were interfering with another players swing, or by his request if your ball would interfere with his intended shot. Just could not clean the ball without penalty. So if two balls ended up touching each other in the fairway player a could mark and lift his ball just not clean it.

If players a ball is on the fringe and player b's ball is in such a position that he intends to chip or pitch his ball where it would land close to player's a ball he could request that player a mark his ball. Anyway that was my understanding.

Also during a tournament a rain delay or such that will carry over into the next day, all players mark there ball if they don't choose to play out the hole if that is still an option.
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4. Can you remove a leaf inside a bunker shot? The leaf is covering your ball.

Yes, but only to the extent necessary to see a part of the ball. If you remove it in the process of locating and identifying the ball, you must replace it so that only a part of the ball is visible.

This is only true if the loose impediment was moved during a

search and needed to be replaced. In general, the rules do not allow you to expose a part of the ball if that act would otherwise violate a rule. You cannot touch the loose impediment if you know that the ball is under it, meaning that you can't make a pretense of searching just to be able to move the loose impediment. If you can see the ball from any angle to verify that it is indeed there and that it is your ball, then the leaf cannot be touched. You are not automatically entitled to see the ball from your address position.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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If 1/4 is on the green and 3/4 is not, then the bottom of the ball, which would be the part touching the ground, would be off the green. So in this case the answer would be no, you cannot mark the ball.

It really depends on how the ball is sitting and exactly what the OP meant by 1/4 and 3/4, etc. In any case, if it's touching the green, then yes you can mark, and if not, then no you can't.

This is only true if the loose impediment was moved during a

Thanks for clarifying that.

I'm curious though as to why they allow you to keep a piece of it exposed in this case, it seems inconsistent with the other rules. Since you're allowed to repair any over-digging without penalty, it seems like they ought to require you to go ahead and re-bury/obscure the ball to its original lie. As the rules stand, if you are lucky enough to find your totally buried ball you could be better off than if you'd had one that was just visible before the search, since you can ensure the part you leave exposed after you identify it is visible from address...

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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I'm curious though as to why they allow you to keep a piece of it exposed in this case, it seems inconsistent with the other rules. Since you're allowed to repair any over-digging without penalty, it seems like they ought to require you to go ahead and re-bury/obscure the ball to its original lie. As the rules stand, if you are lucky enough to find your totally buried ball you could be better off than if you'd had one that was just visible before the search,

I am not sure if I caught Your idea behind that bolded part but this issue on the whole is indeed interesting.

Dec 12-1/2 Ball Covered by Sand in Bunker Removed from Buried Lie During Search Q. A ball buried in sand in a bunker is removed from the buried lie during search. The player replaces and re-covers it as required by Rule 12-1, third paragraph. May the player then remove as much sand as will enable him to see a part of the ball? A. Yes. I believe in this case of Dec 12-1/2 the player will be allowed to expose a part of his ball so that he actually sees it during address . It would propably be difficult to dig the sand in such a manner that the ball would be visible from another angle than from the top (so in essence the result would the the same as You wrote in the bolded section, regardless whether the ball was partly visible in its original lie or not, except if the ball was buried in a steep slope). Now, in the case on fallen leaves covering the ball, how must the player proceed if his ball is completely covered by the leaves and he is searching for the ball thus causing some leaves to move? Is he allowed to re-cover the ball in such a manner that he can see his ball after address (analogous to Dec 12-1/2) or must he cover it to such extent that it can be seen from another angle, i.e. from the side? After all, leaves can be piled on top of the ball easily in a manner making it visible from the side but not from the top. So, is the player given an advantage to see the ball in both cases or only when the ball is covered by sand?
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I am not sure if I caught Your idea behind that bolded part but this issue on the whole is indeed interesting.

Well, the idea was that if your ball is only mostly covered with sand or leaves to begin with, and you are able to find it before taking the act of uncovering it in your search, you don't get to uncover it. If you don't happen to be able to see the ball from address because, say, the ball is only visible from the side, that's what you're stuck with. If you don't find it until you've uncovered it while probing, you now get to ensure that the visible part is one that is advantageous to you.

Thinking a bit more, I guess the idea is they don't want you to find your ball, then lose it again by burying it, so you get to leave a visible spot. Still, it seems like equity would be better served by allowing you to uncover to see the ball from address in both cases.
Now, in the case on fallen leaves covering the ball, how must the player proceed if his ball is completely covered by the leaves and he is searching for the ball thus causing some leaves to move? Is he allowed to re-cover the ball in such a manner that he can see his ball after address (analogous to Dec 12-1/2) or must he cover it to such extent that it can be seen from another angle, i.e. from the side? After all, leaves can be piled on top of the ball easily in a manner making it visible from the side but not from the top.

I don't think a distinction is drawn between leaves and sand. No decision on the point necessary, since Rule 12-1 answers it:

In a hazard, if a ball is believed to be covered by loose impediments or sand, the player may remove by probing or raking with a club or otherwise, as many loose impediments or as much sand as will enable him to see a part of the ball. If an excess is removed, there is no penalty and the ball must be re-covered so that only a part of the ball is visible.

thanks all for your input...so this is what i have so far...

In a puddle of standing water, you drop within a club length of the nearest point of full relief (i.e. completely clear of the puddle), no nearer the hole,

within the bunker. If there is no place clear of the puddle within the bunker, then you may instead drop at the point within the bunker and not nearer the hole that gives the maximum available relief (i.e. has the shallowest water). The latter option---not taking full relief---is only available if there is no option for full relief; you can't just decide that you don't like the location of a legal point offering full relief. There is no option that allows you to drop outside the bunker without also taking a penalty stroke.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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Well, the idea was that if your ball is only mostly covered with sand or leaves to begin with, and you are able to find it before taking the act of uncovering it in your search, you don't get to uncover it. If you don't happen to be able to see the ball from address because, say, the ball is only visible from the side, that's what you're stuck with. If you don't find it until you've uncovered it while probing, you now get to ensure that the visible part is one that is advantageous to you.

Agree. Just wanted to get some support to my own view. Thx!

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Note: This thread is 4901 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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