How much can a shaft mess with you?

Hey guys,

Me again, the guy with frustrating iron problems. Seriously I just want to ask you guys that are very well educated in the matter of club and swing 'science'.

I have these Cleveland CG4's. I bought them blind off ebay. Previously I had Big Bertha '04s (but sold them. )

I have had tremendous problem shooting straight with my CG4's and they are 'upgraded' by Cleveland to have the heavier, stiff True Temper Dynamic Gold shafts. (Does S300 sound right?)

I know some of you who frequent this board know the frustration I've been going through. But the reason I bring it up again is I was test driving some new irons, told the salesperson that I pull my Clevelands a lot and he just looked at me like I was sniffing from the 'bag of dreams' or something.

He was polite enough about it, but here's a guy that could potentially make a sale and instead (all the while he's showing me game improvement irons) he's asking me about the shafts I have on the Clevelands. When I tell him what they are he watches me hit in the simulator for a while and says I'm hitting them very straight, and he thinks the shafts are what's messing me up.

I hit some game improvement, and I hate to admit it but I was swinging very confidently, very quickly, with the Nike OSS. The employee told me I should consider going with a regular flex graphite shaft on the Clevelands. He says he has a lot of faith in the cleveland product and he said if I still have confidence in them, it could be the best move.

So now he has me thinking. When I was originally frustrated with these, my knee jerk reaction was to sell them, but as you know, you take quite a hit on selling a used club. I stuck them out for about 15+ range sessions and still pull them!

If you're still with me, now that you sorta know the conversation I had with this guy (who also said he was a club maker in a previous life), what do you think? Can a shaft give you that much issue?

I don't swing that hard, and I know what I saw on the launch monitor with the game improvement irons. He said they all had at least a slightly larger offset which means I should pull them _more_ not less than the Clevelands. However, I was hitting them almost perfectly straight, maybe a bit to the right once in a while (slight fade).

Should I get these clubs refit? Or just move on. Help.

Pulls often result from the arms getting ahead of the body. Heavier shafts wouldn't cause this. It is possible that they feel heavy to you and you pull harder on them in response to the heavier feel, especially at the top of your backswing?. If you make a concious effort to maintain arms and body timing do you still have pulls?

Just a quick update... I took them into the store and did a cross comparisson on the launch monitor. I was hitting quite bad to be honest, worse than is my standard (I consider myself a decent golfer for a new player).

I was just really impressed with Mizuno's. I took MX-17's out for a spin because they are on sale, and I was pretty surprised how straight I was with them... I tried a few brands out to directly compare and MX-17's hit best. With Slingshot OSSs following second.... lol

I wish I would have tried Mizuno MX-23's as they are on sale too... I think they're in the same category of GI as MX-17's... but the 17's look really nice in silver with a silver/white cavity. Not that it should effect my decision really.

About a month ago...

Run away from those CG4's man... Run

FAR awaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

SuaSponteMn:

You know, you were right in my case. But hopefully you understand I didn't want to just give up. I'm not going to blame the club entirely. I still believe some people can really hit these things, but I think they're people with a great swing.

I was thinking of your earlier response (which you quoted) when I was looking at game improvement irons again. How do MX-17's compare to MX-23's? I'm afraid of screwing myself again and the MX-17's were shockingly easy to hit (and look sweet too).

As I mentioned, I don't have anything against Nike, but I kinda was hoping I wouldn't like them, but I also ended up hitting Slingshot OSS's _very_ straight, and the distance was better.

But yes, you're right... I'm running... far far away.

MX-17 is more of a game-improvement club than the MX23 & MX25. The MX17 will be easier to hit, but I would suggest trying the other two because they won't be that much tougher to hit but you can play them much longer as you improve. The Slingshot OSS in my opinion is an even bigger game improvement club than your Big Bertha's. My suggestion would be to steer clear of them. Again, only my opinion.

I agree with the above.

It seems to me regarding the Game improvement irons, (most irons actually) that your result with them is determined by your precision, your ability to strike the center of the clubface. You have an amount of precision that makes the Nike & MX17 perform very well RIGHT NOW! But, over time, they may train you to be less and less precise. That is what he was suggesting above about the MX23's & 25's taking you further over time. These will probably be a tad more difficult to hit now, but they will train you to be MORE precise rather than let you get away with poor shots.

HOWEVER! Some people just don't have time or energy to plan on improving, and just want to hit pretty good shots the couple times a month they get out. Game improvement clubs really help to this end.

Right or wrong, I prefer an iron that pushes / challenges me to improve my ball striking - so I can get more & more precise.

By the way, you just cannot go wrong with Mizuno. IMHO

IT DEPENDS ACTUALLY
you can get fit, which is a good option, but you should go get a few lessons b4hand so ur getting the best out of ur irons. HOPE THIS HELPS

For me heavier shafts slow down my tempo and allow me to hit less pulls (I pulled my graphite shafted irons like there was no tomorrow). I am actually considering upping the weight of what I use now as I don't mind losing a couple of yards if it lets me hit straighter.

Now someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think DG shafts are pretty low launching. This can mean you get a bit less backspin and therefore have the potential for more sidespin. If that is the case you could try a mid-launch shaft that may get the ball up a bit more and take some side spin off, thereby helping your accuracy.

I'm a high handicapper so take this with a grain of salt.

Have you considered taking a lesson or two then finding your clubs or having your teacher offer some advice? Frankly, it sounds like you just don't have a consistent, solid swing at this point. Your iron comparisons are dependent on how you are swinging that day and less on the equipment.

FWIW, I really wanted to buy a new driver (460 cc). I demoed two and one day I loved the R7460 but the next day the SQ was the club. In the end, I didn't purchase either because I thought I was too inconsistent to make a good choice.

IMO, you seem one step from a club ho so I think you should stick with the game improvement stuff until you consistently hit the ball straight then go to the player's clubs. Otherwise, you will end up turning over clubs more than a $2 hooker turns tricks.

NJDuffer, that's a fair enough assessment. I do indeed take lessons regularly. I am due for a new winter session shortly and my last set of lessons ended in September.

I hit a lot of balls for someone in my climate. I acknowledge I started this great game pretty late in life. All these things are considerations. When people say to me, 'consider you will improve and don't get a heavy duty game improvement iron'... well I honestly don't think I'll ever be 'shaping' a ball.

My swing mechanics have been filmed, and analyzed. I have a consistent swing, it's just not very fast yet (right from day one I wasn't too macho to take lessons, so I've had solid mechanics taught to me before developing bad habits). In the future, I'd like to keep my approximate swing, and swing plane, but just get the clubhead up to 85+ mph without being inaccurate. I'm sure it'll come in time.

I still think I was doing -okay- with the CG4's, but too inconsistent for my liking. As someone at the store said to me, if you lose confidence in a club, you should move on because you'll blame the club instead of yourself. I actually took my CG4's in for resizing but to get UST Graphites, I was going to pay a small fortune. I'm better off selling them IMHO. I believe with their limited use, I'll get a decent dollar.

This is getting a little long-winded for your average forum goer so let me just say I'm probably leaning towards something made for a player with a 15 handicap. Something with current day technology (because I don't want to replace these clubs for a while), and a good name behind them.

I do not recall whether you liked the BB's or not but have you considered the Callaway X-whatever teen's?

I have not shopped for irons since I bought my BB 2004 but I would guess that Callaway has the game improvement X series which you may like and may work for a player trying to get to the mid-teens handicap.

To answer your original question, the wrong shaft can mess with you big time! Shafts that are too stiff create two obvious shot patterns: low, left pull shots and high right fade shots. Plus those particular shafts also hit the ball low.

Do you know what you 5iron swing speed is? My guess is you need an Regular flex shaft.

TONS!!! ...get fitted. Money well spent. I mean it. Don't keep scrolling down looking for the answer you want. this is the answer you needed. Get fit. GO.