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post #37 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by tasker View Post
A common theme with the young'uns coming through is to see prodigious length and good/great ball striking ability and to assume greatness. But with Rory, and some of his newly charging peers. they need to learn to score "consistently". Rory is at best, a mediocre putter in PGA terms, like others in his peer group. They can bomb it miles but cannot make the critical putts when they count - consistently. The key to greatness is a strong ability to score - and this requires a highly developed short game. But as mentioned in another response, putting gets no attention.

Saw another thread today on the (apparent) impact that long game focus had on Tiger and Phil. They used to be exemplary short game wizards, but now look kinda normal and the pattern seems to follow from working on long game at the expense of short game.

I would love to see Rory be the next great thing, but he needs to be a great putter to be a great golfer. I just don't see how it can be otherwise.....
Really? I'd be willing to wager that 50% or more of professional golfing air time is focused on putting or shots around the green. I also have never seen such a niche market that up scale putters have in the world of golf, in any other club in the game. Show me a $2000+ driver or wedge and I'll buy into that statement.
post #38 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Zach Attack View Post
Really? I'd be willing to wager that 50% or more of professional golfing air time is focused on putting or shots around the green. I also have never seen such a niche market that up scale putters have in the world of golf, in any other club in the game. Show me a $2000+ driver or wedge and I'll buy into that statement.
I agree, most coverage I see is on or near the greens. Typically only the leaders or big name players are shown hitting their tee shots or 2nd shots on Par 5's unless there's some drama involved. Driving and putting are required shot and tough for high handicappers to master. Since neither club is typically included in a set but are clubs everyone carries they create a special market with the golf club market. FYI, The Majesty Prestigio Driver costs$2,499
post #39 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
FYI, The Majesty Prestigio Driver costs$2,499
lol, I knew someone would drag that up haha.
post #40 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Zach Attack View Post
lol, I knew someone would drag that up haha.
Sorry, couldn't resist. I think you're safe on the wedge claim unless someone has built a diamond studded lob wedge I never heard of.
post #41 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
Sorry, couldn't resist. I think you're safe on the wedge claim unless someone has built a diamond studded lob wedge I never heard of.
If Liberace played golf then it was a sure bet.
post #42 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
no, actually i didn't say any of that. i said precisely what i said. you decided that it would be amusing to misquote me and take my points out of context. and truth be told, you weren't even that clever about it.
Read your original post and you will see that I quoted you word for word except I said "he sucks" in place of you saying "he is not that great". The fact that you deny it just shows how little thought you put into it.




Originally Posted by senorchipotle View Post
By no means am I saying that he isn't good, cause he's great. He's just not that great. I think Rory will be the next Lee Westwood, albeit with a prettier swing. I know a lot of you think/wish/hope he'll be the second coming, but I'm not buying that product. He hasn't shown me that fire you need to be a multiple major winner. I say he finishes his career with 2, maybe 3 majors and 10-15 tournament wins. I reckon he'll be a hall of famer, but never classed with the likes of tiger, jack, palmer, player, etc. thoughts...?

Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
Funny post. I almost thought you were serious at first.

You said all this in the same paragraph???

He sucks.


He will be the next #1 golfer in the world.

He will be in the golf hall of fame.

-Dan



You do realize Lee Westwood is the #1 ranked golfer in the world, right?

And the Hall of Fame, that is where great golfers get recognized.

:)


-Dan
post #43 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Just reading this morning that Rory is joining Lee Westwood in returning to the European tour next season. I'm surprised I have to say, thought he'd give the PGA another few years.
post #44 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

I think this is a smart move by Rory. He knows that his career is only starting and he has plenty of time to build it before committing to the US PGA Tour, if indeed the balance of power does not shift away from the US and make that moot.

In the meantime, he can play a limited US schedule, all the majors and WGC events and continue to ascend the World Rankings.
post #45 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Are they under some type of obligation? Seems this came up in the last year or two when Padraig wanted to play more in America. Can't recall the details, but the European Tour made it very difficult for him to do so. Of course they don't want their star power on this side of the pond. But my faint memory is that there was some back'handedness involved with their approach to the matter.


-Dan
post #46 of 232
Thread Starter 

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
Read your original post and you will see that I quoted you word for word except I said "he sucks" in place of you saying "he is not that great". The fact that you deny it just shows how little thought you put into it.












You do realize Lee Westwood is the #1 ranked golfer in the world, right?

And the Hall of Fame, that is where great golfers get recognized.

:)


-Dan
no, you did not quote me ''word for word,'' cause i never said ''he'd be the next #1 golfer in the world,'' nor did i say ''he will be in the hall of fame.''

i guess i'll have to humor you, then. it's pretty simple, really. i referred to the ''greats'' meaning: tiger, arnie, jack, player, etc. who are obviously a cut above other players who are considered great, who will be in the hall of fame, if not already: phil, ernie, ray floyd, olazabal, etc. so by saying he'll be great, but not THAT great, was me putting him in the latter category.

lee westwood is the number one golfer in the world technically, but that's not what defines him. we judge players today by how they play in majors, not how many tournaments they've won in jakharta or new delhi or in dubai. lee could have won at least 5 majors I know of where he was either in the lead or a couple off on the last day of competition. but he didn't. this has become a recurring theme with lee. so, by comparing him to lee i mean that he'll likely always be considered one of the best of his peers, and maybe even number one in the world. But I don't think he'll be contending in the end on sunday for every major. savvy?
post #47 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post
He's pretty good for a 21 year old. I'd be willing to bet a little money he'll win more tournaments than O'Hair, Kim, and Villegas put together when all is said and done.
I would take that bet, now if you had said majors I might have to think about it.
post #48 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

His hair has more bounce than my sand wedge. I admire that.

Also think he may be one of the very best long iron strikers since Nicklaus. Was watching the HSBC thing the other night and he hit a towering three iron from God knows how far out, off a downslope, that I honestly thought was going to suck back. In the end, it sort of apologetically hopped forward a foot or so to end five feet from the flag.
post #49 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
Are they under some type of obligation? Seems this came up in the last year or two when Padraig wanted to play more in America. Can't recall the details, but the European Tour made it very difficult for him to do so. Of course they don't want their star power on this side of the pond. But my faint memory is that there was some back'handedness involved with their approach to the matter.


-Dan
You have me at a disadvantage. I'm not aware of any 'backhandedness' with Padhraig; naturally, they tried to persuade him to stay but so long as he plays 12 events a year (the Majors and WGCs are included in that 12), he can keep his card. If there was any 'excessive persuasion' going on then the geld and 'ease of passage' that was dangled in front of Rory Mac would probably qualify. And I do recall there seemed to be a lot of pressure applied to Phil Mickelson when he talked of joining the European Tour a year or so ago.

Both of the two main tours wants the biggest stars on them. It's commercial competition.
post #50 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

And understandably so, it the star power that brings the crowds.
post #51 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

The Hobbit is in fact overrated.

However golf needs to hype players up since the big afro american man isn´t dominating anymore.
post #52 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
His hair has more bounce than my sand wedge. I admire that.
lol. And so do I, increasingly.

Rory has a good 'tude to it all - the game needs more of that. Of course he's still a kid ....
post #53 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Originally Posted by Tiger Spuds View Post
Lets look at it this way. Ben Hogan won his first Major at the age of 34. He then went on to win 8 more over the next 7 years. Rory is 21. As Hogan proved, if you have the talent, an awful lot can happen for you in the game of Golf over a relatively short period of time. Rory has a long, long time to make things happen.....
I feel Hogan is actual the "anti-example" to Rory. Hogan didn't really have inherent talent, and he had to obsessive work at it to build that talent. He practiced incessantly, literally until his hands bled. He'd spend hours on the course mapping out exactly how to play each hole. He so hated to lose that he'd be a miserable SOB to be around for days anytime he did (instead of the normal SOB when he won). Hogan was really a good example of "the harder I work the luckier I get". Hogan's was in many ways a very flawed man, and it was those flaws that made him such a winner. In a way, Tiger is similar - he is intensely driven to win, not so much because he loves winning but because he hates losing so much, and we saw some of his flaws exposed over the last year.

Rory hasn't yet shown this fire. Perhaps he never will, as he is likely a much better balanced person than Hogan or the contemporary example such as Tiger. As I indicated in an earlier post, following Rory at Pebble we saw his practice round prep consisted of walking the course without seeming purpose, emailing car pictures to his friends. Can you picture Hogan doing that?

I'll make a real simplistic breakdown of today's Tour players, and it is of course oversimplifying and perhaps unfairly categorizing many players, but I think it will make a point, so here goes. In the #1 category, there are a few rare players that are so driven to win that it dominates their lives sometimes at all costs, and they put in a near-superhuman effort to get there. And their drive to win isn't because they love the satisfaction of winning, they just really really hate to lose. Tiger is a classic example. Hogan too, Nicklaus, probably Faldo, Player, Phil (earlier on, perhaps not so now), etc. They tend to deliver when the challenge is the toughest. All sports have people that fit this category; Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were classics in that both have said they didn't really like winning, it was just their intense dislike of losing (especially to each other) that drove them to win.

Category #2 is a group who have a lot of talent but perhaps not the extraordinary drive. They love to win - they get satisfaction from it, it is their motivation and scratches that deep personality need, but they don't want to kill themselves if they don't win. They probably grew up with seemingly unnatural talent, kind of seemed lucky to just "have it", and as a result they had a lot of success at the junior and/or collegiate golf level. On Tour, they can be contenders if everything falls their way, but they make a good living. Yeah, they could practice twice as hard and win a little more, but it just isn't worth the personal sacrifice. They're still winners, have family, lives, friends, admiration, and money. All of their Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs are well satisfied. Life is good, so why change?

And then #3, the journeymen, those that have some good talent but have to work really hard just to make a decent living playing golf. They already work hard to exist on Tour, and doubling their practice time just isn't feasible or would really make them that much better. They may break through every once in awhile when their lucky stars align, but they just have never a driven athlete in their life. Someone like Paul Goydos, Briney Baird, etc.

I think Rory fits category #2. He's got the talent, but hasn't had to work that hard to be a winner. Although he may love to win, he doesn't seem upset by losing. You won't find him needing to be consoled in the corner after coming up a shot short. He works hard enough to stay sharp and be really good, but he doesn't feel the need to dedicate every moment of his life to golf. He makes a great living, has an outside life, and is.......very comfortable.

My theory is that nearly any player who reaches the levels of a Hogan or Tiger really has some personality problems, and for a period of time in their life those problems are really what makes them succeed. For Rory to really vault into the upper echelon, he'll have to find something inside him that drives him differently, but I expect that doubtful as he probably just doesn't have the personality flaw in him that would turn him into an obsessive self-focused win-at-all-costs player.

So back to the over-hype and over-rated question, it seems to me that the press sort of just sees the talent and athletic ability, and doesn't really look to see if their "next Nicklaus" has what it takes to get there. Thus, they annoint any player that comes along with the swing and past record as the next great one. But they don't really assess if that player has the intangibles - are they out hitting balls well after dark as their hands bleed? Did they miss their mother's funeral because they missed putt #97 in their drill to sink 100 in a row and they had to start over and over? Do they show obsessive-compulsive behavior in other parts of their lives? If they're being expected to be the next Nicklaus without that intangible obsessiveness, then yes they'll always be over-rated. And when the press keeps talking about it again and again, they they are very over-hyped.

Ooops, didn't realize I'd typed that much - kudos if you're still reading!
post #54 of 232

Re: Rory McIlroy is overrated...

Nice post Clambake. Agree with every part of it.

The problem with todays golfers and every other sport in general is that you get the reward before you really earn anything. It's gotta be hard to stay motivated, put in the hard work day in and day out when you've already got a Ferrari and a gorgeous missus back home. The era of Hogan, Snead and Nelson, dubbed the "greatest generation" the tour was a damn grind, 36 holes in one day and most of the time they played week in week out. Those guys were tough.
Bryon Nelson says it nicely “Winners are different. They're a different breed of cat.”
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