Hitting too down on the ball?

**TaylorMadeTaylor** · December 13, 2010

I've played both today and yesterday, as well as thursday and wierd thing have been happening at impact. Often when I'm hitting my short and mid irons I've been digging into the ground excessivley. I'm not talking about hitting it fat, the shot turns out fine but after impact my swing is severly decelerated my the turf, and sometimes completley stopped so I can't follow through. It's really annoying me. When I try to prevent this, I just end up hitting it very thin with ugly results. DO you think my angle of attack is too steep? Are there any drills or tips to prevent this?

**Shanks A Million** · December 13, 2010

It has nothing to do with hitting down on the ball, and you can still be flipping and do this. It's because your plane is too steep. When that happens, you feel a lot of friction at impact, and you hit the ball fairly low. You need to get your hands deeper, and flatten your plane out.

**TaylorMadeTaylor** · December 13, 2010

Yea I took a swing video and, wow. I noticed a lot of things off the bat, and it does look like I'm to steep. I can't get the damn thing uploaded though, my laptop is broken and this computer is not letting my upload it. I'll have to find someone who will let me use theirs.

**Dad-2-3** · December 13, 2010

get your hands deeper

This will definitely solve a steepness issue

**Shanks A Million** · December 13, 2010

If you're feeling excessive friction at impact, really any amount that seems like it grabs the club, then you've got a problem. A good plane will feel as if there's almost no turf, and you want minimal divot. Depending on the type of grass, you can take little or no divot with a good swing. I try to go for long, but shallow divots on tight grasses, and little or no divot on longer ones.

minger · December 13, 2010

A very quick easy drill is to just hit balls with your right hand if right handed and vice versa. Then instead of trying to swing at the ball it forces you to swing through it. You really want to pay attention to the feeling that you are creating when you hit a shot with good contact. Then after you have done that for awhile, try to create that same feeling with two hands on the club. Also, a step swing at impact I have found in most people is caused when you shift you head forward. If you have someone to practice with do the drill Tiger has been doing with having the other person put the club up against your back ear through impact. If you don't have someone a drill is to put an x on the mirror that you can line up between your eyes when in your swing and do muscle memory training. Take the club back to the top pause then swing after the swing is complete look back at the mirror the x should be relatively close to where it started. Good luck with your swing improvements.

**TaylorMadeTaylor** · December 14, 2010

A very quick easy drill is to just hit balls with your right hand if right handed and vice versa. Then instead of trying to swing at the ball it forces you to swing through it. You really want to pay attention to the feeling that you are creating when you hit a shot with good contact. Then after you have done that for awhile, try to create that same feeling with two hands on the club. Also, a step swing at impact I have found in most people is caused when you shift you head forward. If you have someone to practice with do the drill Tiger has been doing with having the other person put the club up against your back ear through impact. If you don't have someone a drill is to put an x on the mirror that you can line up between your eyes when in your swing and do muscle memory training. Take the club back to the top pause then swing after the swing is complete look back at the mirror the x should be relatively close to where it started. Good luck with your swing improvements.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going through some BIG winter swing changes and will add this to the list.

**Shanks A Million** · December 14, 2010

A very quick easy drill is to just hit balls with your right hand if right handed and vice versa. Then instead of trying to swing at the ball it forces you to swing through it. You really want to pay attention to the feeling that you are creating when you hit a shot with good contact. Then after you have done that for awhile, try to create that same feeling with two hands on the club. Also, a step swing at impact I have found in most people is caused when you shift you head forward. If you have someone to practice with do the drill Tiger has been doing with having the other person put the club up against your back ear through impact. If you don't have someone a drill is to put an x on the mirror that you can line up between your eyes when in your swing and do muscle memory training. Take the club back to the top pause then swing after the swing is complete look back at the mirror the x should be relatively close to where it started. Good luck with your swing improvements.

Uh... What? I don't think that has anything to do with his problem. His problem is that his plane is too steep. Swinging with one hand will make it much worse, he'll be forced to pick the club up even steeper.

**JetFan1983** · December 14, 2010

You need to be driving your hips laterally and upward as you approach impact in order to shallow out the angle of decent of the clubhead. The approach is too steep when the body rotates without sufficient lateral motion. Sliding your hips to start the downswing and then raising or pushing them upward so they can continue to rotate creates the optimum decent of the clubhead into the ball.

**Shanks A Million** · December 14, 2010

You need to be driving your hips laterally and upward as you approach impact in order to shallow out the angle of decent of the clubhead. The approach is too steep when the body rotates without sufficient lateral motion. Sliding your hips to start the downswing and then raising or pushing them upward so they can continue to rotate creates the optimum decent of the clubhead into the ball.

Maybe, but you're all getting way, way too hung up on small details. He needs to get his hands deep, that's all. No complex sequence of moves, just swing flatter, that's all.

minger · December 14, 2010

Uh... What? I don't think that has anything to do with his problem. His problem is that his plane is too steep. Swinging with one hand will make it much worse, he'll be forced to pick the club up even steeper.

Sure it does! On the down swing he is not flattening out the shaft of the club, I'm not sure how he will be forced to pick up the club sooner as you say? The whole point of the drill is to feel the shaft flattening out on the down swing. You can feel the weight of the club on the down swing and you should feel the club head drop. That is the feeling I am talking about. It also forces you to rotate you hips first to hit the ball and keeps your back to the target longer. Which has everything to do with his swing. You can take the club back on a perfect line but if you still hit down at the ball incorrectly then you will still cut into the ground. Have you ever even done the drill prior to your response that it will not even help him???

**TaylorMadeTaylor** · December 14, 2010

I haven't even tried it yet, but I have tried (and like) the drill to keep my head still.

**Taggsy** · December 15, 2010

If your ball flight is fine, then don't go a-changing your swing plane. Most steep downswings cause slices because they're over the plane line (an out-to-in swing path).
If you're not slicing the ball, then you're not swinging over the top, and you're not coming down too steep. If you're on plane, you can never be too steep.

Off the top of my head, there are two much simpler issues that are causing you to hit the turf hard;
Firstly, your hands could be closer to the ground at impact than at address. You've seen your video, is that the case? Because of the downwards flex of the club shaft, your hands should be slightly higher at impact than at address.
The second reason I can think of would again be a difference between address and impact. Do you set up with your hands forward of the club head (flat left wrist at address)?
It's no bad thing, but be aware that not only are you starting with your hands forward of the club head, but your hands are slightly closer to the ground than if the club shaft were vertical. This can be an issue when during the swing you don't maintain the flat left wrist and you lose your right wrist flying wedge (lag). This again means that during impact, the club head (but not your hands) are closer to the ground at impact compared to address.

The first problem is harder to solve. If the hands are closer to the ground at impact compared to address, I'm guessing your upper body increases its forward leaning during the downswing. If that's the case, learn to not do that so much (easier said than done).
The second problem, throwing away lag, can be easily fixed by concentrating on the 3rd pressure point during impact. It just means on the downswing, and especially through impact, you should concentrate on maintaining the pressure between the right index finger and the grip on the club. If you can feel that pressure, your hands are ahead of the club head.

Either way, good luck!

**Shanks A Million** · December 17, 2010

Originally Posted by Taggsy

If your ball flight is fine, then don't go a-changing your swing plane. Most steep downswings cause slices because they're over the plane line (an out-to-in swing path).
If you're not slicing the ball, then you're not swinging over the top, and you're not coming down too steep. If you're on plane, you can never be too steep.

Off the top of my head, there are two much simpler issues that are causing you to hit the turf hard;
Firstly, your hands could be closer to the ground at impact than at address. You've seen your video, is that the case? Because of the downwards flex of the club shaft, your hands should be slightly higher at impact than at address.
The second reason I can think of would again be a difference between address and impact. Do you set up with your hands forward of the club head (flat left wrist at address)?
It's no bad thing, but be aware that not only are you starting with your hands forward of the club head, but your hands are slightly closer to the ground than if the club shaft were vertical. This can be an issue when during the swing you don't maintain the flat left wrist and you lose your right wrist flying wedge (lag). This again means that during impact, the club head (but not your hands) are closer to the ground at impact compared to address.

The first problem is harder to solve. If the hands are closer to the ground at impact compared to address, I'm guessing your upper body increases its forward leaning during the downswing. If that's the case, learn to not do that so much (easier said than done).
The second problem, throwing away lag, can be easily fixed by concentrating on the 3rd pressure point during impact. It just means on the downswing, and especially through impact, you should concentrate on maintaining the pressure between the right index finger and the grip on the club. If you can feel that pressure, your hands are ahead of the club head.

Either way, good luck!

Uh, swing plane is a major fundamental. Swinging too steep is a major problem, no matter what the ballflight. When you swing too steep, you make the area in which you can strike the ball much smaller, and you hit it too low. You always hear Eric talking about deep hands. Deep hands are one of the most crucial components of a good golf swing. The best ballstrikers on tour have flat swings. Rickie Fowler was one of the best this year tee to green, and his plane is flat. Matt Kuchar is also a flat swinger. Flat plane = better ballstriker.

**bunkerputt** · December 17, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by minger

Uh... What? I don't think that has anything to do with his problem. His problem is that his plane is too steep. Swinging with one hand will make it much worse, he'll be forced to pick the club up even steeper.

Sure it does! On the down swing he is not flattening out the shaft of the club, I'm not sure how he will be forced to pick up the club sooner as you say? The whole point of the drill is to feel the shaft flattening out on the down swing. You can feel the weight of the club on the down swing and you should feel the club head drop. That is the feeling I am talking about. It also forces you to rotate you hips first to hit the ball and keeps your back to the target longer. Which has everything to do with his swing. You can take the club back on a perfect line but if you still hit down at the ball incorrectly then you will still cut into the ground. Have you ever even done the drill prior to your response that it will not even help him???

I agree with Minger here. Imagine the club is releasing fully at the bottom around a stable axis at the grip. It traces a circle right? Now imagine the axis is moving laterally when the release is happening. The circle is elongated making the bottom flatter. Replace the axis with your hands. The only way for this scenario to happen is if the hands are still moving laterally while the release is happening. Now, the laws of physics will dictate the hands slow down some while the clubhead is releasing. In a steep swing, the slowdown happens earlier than in a shallow swing. This is because the release is occurring sooner and causing the hands to slow down to a crawl through impact. So I'm guessing your main problem is a downswing sequencing one. This will cause a steeper swing plane and earlier release. If your ball position has crept back over time, this will tend to cause a reverse pivot which will sap your power and cause you to come in steep. Sure, get the hands deep, but make sure your ball position is forward and your shoulders are still turning and creating torque on the backswing. You can't work on sequencing without a good shoulder turn. So get that straightened out first.

**Taggsy** · December 17, 2010

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taggsy

If your ball flight is fine, then don't go a-changing your swing plane. Most steep downswings cause slices because they're over the plane line (an out-to-in swing path).
If you're not slicing the ball, then you're not swinging over the top, and you're not coming down too steep. If you're on plane, you can never be too steep.

Off the top of my head, there are two much simpler issues that are causing you to hit the turf hard;
Firstly, your hands could be closer to the ground at impact than at address. You've seen your video, is that the case? Because of the downwards flex of the club shaft, your hands should be slightly higher at impact than at address.
The second reason I can think of would again be a difference between address and impact. Do you set up with your hands forward of the club head (flat left wrist at address)?
It's no bad thing, but be aware that not only are you starting with your hands forward of the club head, but your hands are slightly closer to the ground than if the club shaft were vertical. This can be an issue when during the swing you don't maintain the flat left wrist and you lose your right wrist flying wedge (lag). This again means that during impact, the club head (but not your hands) are closer to the ground at impact compared to address.

The first problem is harder to solve. If the hands are closer to the ground at impact compared to address, I'm guessing your upper body increases its forward leaning during the downswing. If that's the case, learn to not do that so much (easier said than done).
The second problem, throwing away lag, can be easily fixed by concentrating on the 3rd pressure point during impact. It just means on the downswing, and especially through impact, you should concentrate on maintaining the pressure between the right index finger and the grip on the club. If you can feel that pressure, your hands are ahead of the club head.

Either way, good luck!

Uh, swing plane is a major fundamental. Swinging too steep is a major problem, no matter what the ballflight. When you swing too steep, you make the area in which you can strike the ball much smaller, and you hit it too low. You always hear Eric talking about deep hands. Deep hands are one of the most crucial components of a good golf swing. The best ballstrikers on tour have flat swings. Rickie Fowler was one of the best this year tee to green, and his plane is flat. Matt Kuchar is also a flat swinger. Flat plane = better ballstriker.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You've confused me with your examples and terminology I'm afraid, so forgive me if I've misunderstood your points. When you say "you make the area in which you can strike the ball much smaller, and you hit it too low", what area are you referring to? An area on the ball? An area on the clubface? And what do you mean by "hitting it too low"? Do you mean a low ball flight? Or hitting it fat? Clarify what you mean, and if I'm wrong in my initial statement I'll apologise to the OP.

Another point... what exactly is ball striking? It's an ambiguous term that means many things to many people. I personally think of ball striking as the moment of impact, and in particular hitting down on the ball to produce backspin, irrespective of swing plane and eventual ball flight. But that's my interpretation of "ball striking". Now if we use my interpretation with your "flat plane = better ball striker", then we'd have to disagree again, because a shallower downswing would have a harder time hitting down on the ball than a steeper downswing.

From my understanding on what Erik teachers about "deep hands", that has little to do with improving (my definition) of ball striking, but creates a swing path that's in-to-out and is therefore designed with ball flight in mind, not ball striking. Now the OP is a single figure handicapper, and presumably doesn't have an issue with ball flight, so "deep hands" and a flatter plane are unnecessary fixes for what could be a much simpler problem (i.e. the examples I gave in my post above).

I'm sure when the OP posts his swing for us all to see, the swing plane wouldn't be a major issue. I'm making that presumption on the fact the OP is a single figure handicapper, he's not slicing the ball, and by his own admission, the "shot turns out fine"- i.e. the ball is going out straight-ish.

Obviously, without seeing the swing these are all hypothetical suggestions.

**Shanks A Million** · December 18, 2010

Originally Posted by Taggsy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

Uh, swing plane is a major fundamental. Swinging too steep is a major problem, no matter what the ballflight. When you swing too steep, you make the area in which you can strike the ball much smaller, and you hit it too low. You always hear Eric talking about deep hands. Deep hands are one of the most crucial components of a good golf swing. The best ballstrikers on tour have flat swings. Rickie Fowler was one of the best this year tee to green, and his plane is flat. Matt Kuchar is also a flat swinger. Flat plane = better ballstriker.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You've confused me with your examples and terminology I'm afraid, so forgive me if I've misunderstood your points. When you say "you make the area in which you can strike the ball much smaller, and you hit it too low", what area are you referring to? An area on the ball? An area on the clubface? And what do you mean by "hitting it too low"? Do you mean a low ball flight? Or hitting it fat? Clarify what you mean, and if I'm wrong in my initial statement I'll apologise to the OP.

Another point... what exactly is ball striking? It's an ambiguous term that means many things to many people. I personally think of ball striking as the moment of impact, and in particular hitting down on the ball to produce backspin, irrespective of swing plane and eventual ball flight. But that's my interpretation of "ball striking". Now if we use my interpretation with your "flat plane = better ball striker", then we'd have to disagree again, because a shallower downswing would have a harder time hitting down on the ball than a steeper downswing.

From my understanding on what Erik teachers about "deep hands", that has little to do with improving (my definition) of ball striking, but creates a swing path that's in-to-out and is therefore designed with ball flight in mind, not ball striking. Now the OP is a single figure handicapper, and presumably doesn't have an issue with ball flight, so "deep hands" and a flatter plane are unnecessary fixes for what could be a much simpler problem (i.e. the examples I gave in my post above).

I'm sure when the OP posts his swing for us all to see, the swing plane wouldn't be a major issue. I'm making that presumption on the fact the OP is a single figure handicapper, he's not slicing the ball, and by his own admission, the "shot turns out fine"- i.e. the ball is going out straight-ish.

Obviously, without seeing the swing these are all hypothetical suggestions.

The problem with golf is that we're taught the same bogus tips year after year. Hitting down on the ball is bogus. It has no meaning, no one explains what exactly it means. What we want to do is to maintain the flying wedge through impact, which will nearly force us to hit down on the ball, with the exception of someone who's literally lifting their arms right around impact (it may be possible, but I've never seen it.)

Deep hands is all about plane. Swing on a steep plane, and you will only have a few inches of space in which you can hit the ball. Imagine a hula hoop standing on the ground:

Now, every part of that hoop 1" from the ground is area in which you can hit the ball. How do you get a larger area closer to the ground? You put it flatter to the ground, right?

Now how much of that hoop is 1" from the ground? All of it. Simple concept. A steep swing gives you less area in which the club is close enough to the ground to hit the ball. A flatter swing gives you more (linear) area to hit the ball. If we could swing the club perfectly flat, we would, but we can't. Hence, the flatter the better.

**Taggsy** · December 19, 2010

Ok Shanks, I understand what you're saying now. But again, I disagree.

I happen to have a very flat swing plane (look up the threads I'd started and you'll find a few videos of my swing), and from experience I can say the thing I struggle with most is solid contact and a penetrating ball flight through not hitting down on the ball enough.

Hitting down on the ball isn't some bogus throwaway tip you find in the magazines, it's an essential feature of a good swing, and it's the only way to produce backspin needed for high, penetrating ball flight. Don't take my word for it, here's a video lesson from Lynn Blake from which he quotes The Golfing Machine at around 3:20;

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.php/View-Video/133/Chapter-7-Lag-Pressure.html

(Thrust Direction) 6-E-2: "TRY TO DRIVE THE BALL INTO THE GROUND, NOT INTO THE AIR. If you don't KNOW that you hit down, assume that you didn't."

(capitalisation from the book)

But back on topic, my initial point was you can fix contact issues such as the OP's without having to change the swing plane. The OP is a single figure handicapper and there should be little wrong with his plane. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Sign In

Hitting too down on the ball?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Topics Being Discussed Right Now on The Sand Trap

TST Partners

Popular Now

Posts

Important Information