Why "not" use game improvement clubs? - Page 2

I've hit GI irons that had way too much offset for me, so I was hooking them. But it sounds like the OP is very happy with what he has, so no need for him to change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 596 

Why would anyone use anything other then the easiest clubs to hit straight, get in the air, not end up in the woods, or in my case the desert, etc.

Pretty simple really, I don't need to.  I can hit anything high, straight, and not end up in the woods.  I don't need a club to help me do that.  I would rather hit something that doesn't look like a shovel and something that I can feel through the swing.  My biggest thing with GI clubs is that if I miss a shot, most times, you can't tell what caused it.  Was it thin, fat, bad lie, didn't play the right yardage, wind more than I thought, etc., etc?  I know exactly how I hit each of my clubs (Titleist ZB), if something doesn't turn out right, I want to know why so I can either adjust on the next one, or pass it off as a mistake.

Looks like this subject is pretty well covered but I'll add my 2 cents anyway.  The short answer to the question is that the design changes put in to GI Irons are to make off center hits fly straighter and higher than would be possible for the same ball impact with a blade (Players) irons.  In doing that the impacts that are "on the screws" will fly higher but shorter that the same impact with Players irons.  Also these design changes make if more difficult to hit bending shots (fades and draws) and also make it more difficult to determine when the impact is off center (feed back is reduced).  Since the GI design attributes are included to different extents in variousmanufacture's GI and Player irons you just have to try them and see what work for you.

As to the looks of the club, Arnold Palmer wrote an article many years ago giving advice on how to select clubs that optimize your play.  This was before the Game Improvement Club boom.  One of the things in the article that stuck with me over the years was advice to  address an imaginary ball with a candidate club in the pro shop and if you don't like the way it looks, don't bother taking it to the range for consideration.  It was his opinion that if you didn't like the looks at address, the club would not ever be a consistent winner for you even if you did hit it well that day.  FWTIW  (I like acronyms and this one is "for whatever that is worth")

Looking forward to a better year in 2011 with my GI X22 irons.

Hey 596,  what length courses do you normally play? And from what tees? I'm wondering about how difficult the game is for you. A 5.5 HCI is pretty good. I'm trying to get in the single digits myself. I learned the game using blades. Then I laid  off for a number of years. When I returned in 09' I bought Ping Eye 2+ clubs and tried to play with them.  Ugh it was ugly, so I pulled out my old blades and the game started to get better. My current set of clubs are current technology blades and I really like using them. Blades seem natural for me maybe because of familiarity with the feel but other posters are right, looking down on GI irons is different as is the way they interact with the turf. To me the feel also is different in that GIs don't let you feel the shot to the degree the blades do.

Anyway, I don't believe a player can get to single digits without being able to shape a shot, so you're hitting those GIs really well and landing the ball where you want it to go.

The one item I didn't see any poster mention to you is most important. That is blades can demonstrably deliver a tighter dispersion pattern than a GI iron.  I think that is the main factor a player with a 5.5 HCI should be concerned with.  

If you are accurate enough with GIs to get down to a 5.5, you may be able to get lower by gaining that extra bit of accuracy that a blade offers. 

I have a few reasons:

1.  Offset...  No way.

2.  Shot dispersion, with my short irons it matters, with my long ones, I use cavities.

3.  Flight.  My blades already fly a mile in the air, imagine how high GI clubs would go?  I can send a GI 3 iron into orbit.

4.  Looks!

I'm not suggesting you change clubs, but here is a suggestion. Be on the look out for a demo 6iron blade with a proper stiffness shaft. I found one for 99 cents at a clearance sale. It is a great club for me to keep in the trunk and pull out for a half hour at a range during lunch when I'm on a trip.  You could use one to find out if you can hit a blade well or practice hitting it on the sweet spot.  

Personally I think the reason for better players to use Player's irons is distance control. In fact I believe it was PING who was doing testing with their SGI/GI clubs and noticed that even when the ball was stuck in the sweet spot with a robot, there was a 10 yard difference in the same conditions which they couldnt explain.

What are you talking about? I could be putting words in the mouths of my fellow blades players, but nobody really cares what you have in the bag. Keep playing your G-whatevers or don't. You've never hit a blade and you're still apparently enjoying the game so what's the point of this thread?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 596 

Road Dog....All good points.

 

I play any number of length of courses.  In fact some of my better scores are from the back tees since it makes me think about shots and the course management more then just pounding away.

 

I can see a blade having a tighter shot pattern when hit correctly and on the screws, so to say.  But if I'm not hitting them, on the screws, and hitting them just off center, will the GI irons make my shots better and not loose as much distance or accuracy?  I think so, but I've not hit any blades though to see the result of my bad shots.  I've been playing for 3 years this coming March so the thought of off center hits with a balde scares me.....why bother if I can play well with a GI.

 

Once I'm inside 160 yards I don't have much problem hitting shaped shots.  I can shape a shot with a fade easier then a draw though.  I can also hit a high or low shot with the GI irons.  My regular launch anlge is lower then normal so the GI irons help alot with this by keeping the launch angle manageable.  I may be limiting myself in the future using GI instead of blades?  I'll have to think about the return before I change clubs to save a stroke or two in a game I view as a hobby, fun and allows me time all by myself. 

A recent winner of a PGA Tour event was gaming Ping Eye2 irons.  I guess even 20-year old GI sticks offer enough "feedback," "visual appeal," "shot dispersion," "turf interaction" and "penetrating ball-flight" to achieve success at the highest levels...

I'm all for making the game easier...why make a hard game any harder for yourself...if single-digit h'cappers can play G15's and some PGA pros e.g. kenny perry / rocco mediate will play (non-tour and cavity-backed) irons and compete at majors, the real question is - why should a 12 h'capper be playing forged blades? If i were over 50-years old and had a single digit h'cap, i'd consider that as being "not broken" and so why "fix it"? Look what can happen to people (even the pros) who try to change their swing and/or equipment. Many have lived to regret the decision.

The question I'd ask the OP is "Did you ever give a regular GI or player's GI iron a real try?"  Over a period of 20+ years I had gradually moved from my original set of Golden Ram blades (bought in the mid 70's before there were any GI clubs) to end up with a truly monstrous set of King Cobras.  Then the last time I went shopping I fell in love with the Titleist AP-2 irons that I've played for the last two seasons. 

I don't score any better or any worse with them, but I do like the look and feel of them much better. They won't be confused with a blade, but they have about 1/2 to 3/4 of the surface area of my King Cobras, and virtually no offset, (which is very important to me for eye appeal).  Miss hits give positive feed back while still not ruining the shot to the same extent that they will with a blade.  Maltby still calls them GI... I don't know how he rates things, but that's fine if it works for him.  Most call them a player's dual cavity. All I know is that they are less forgiving than anything I've owned since those old Golden Rams, but I like playing with them more than anything I've owned in the last 20 years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - don't hang too much on the name.  If I did that I'd never even have tried the AP-2 irons I've got now because I wouldn't have thought that I was good enough for them.  Even though that may be true, it doesn't stop me from enjoying every moment I spend on the course with them.  By the way, I'm 64, and I hit the 7 iron 145.

I can't think of any good reason for YOU to change, unless YOU want to. At a 5.5 index from the courses you play, you are hitting the ball pretty solidly and consistently.  If you enjoy your game and want to stick with your clubs, then do it.  The SGI clubs might mask some slight imperfections, but at 5.5 they can't be too bad unless you are just a pure genius on and around the greens.  If you hit a wall on improvement, and desire to improve, seek out a good instructor and take a lesson.

I have two old sets of clubs. The ones in my sig are pure blades and I am also using persimmon woods with them right now.  I am not "good enough" to be doing this, but I am just in an old school phase right now and enjoy doing it. I like the look, I like the feedback, I like the feel, I like the nostalgia, even though it probably costs me 4-5 shots or more per round.  I don't do it to "impress" anyone, I do it because I enjoy it.

During "scramble season" I play with some older Titleist DCI cavity backs, and of course metal driver and fairway. These DCI's I would class as at least moderate GI-they are full cavity back with moderate progressive offset.  I find I am considerably more consistent in dispersion in both distance and direction through the set. I game the same wedge and putter with either set, but occasionally put a Ping in play instead of the flanged blade putter I most often use.

When I play in scrambles or team events, I feel I owe it to my partners to do the best I can and be as consistent as I can, so the DCI's are usually in the bag then.  When playing by my self or playing my own ball in casual games, it is usually the old school set.

I agree with the OP's premise.

I think you should use the clubs that give you what you're looking for. I play a very 'forgiving' players iron.  For me, the reason I went to it from a GI set was the sole grind and offset issue. A Ping G10 is, in  many ways, a great club in terms of performance. Hell, I used one today to warm up before I hit some hybrids on a simulator.

I hit my current irons better than I'd hit SGI irons. I've demoed several, and I'm comfortable with what I'm hitting. If you're hitting G10's to the right place on the green, or your hitting your number when you layup, then tell your buds with blades to f-- off. Plenty of pros using GI clubs (lots of G series Pings, Taylor Made R9s, Titleist AP1s) on the tour, and they seem to do okay. In the era of the modern golf ball, nobody NEEDS to work a ball 30 yards in the air unless you're playing with rocks by choice. You can hit subtle draws and fades, hit it high and low....with any club.

I agree that looks matter. I play the AP2's, 4-PW, and when I look down at them from address I know that I am about to hit a club that can do anything my ability wants them to do.  Bigger GI irons may go straighter more often but they won't allow you to improve your shot making. I think most golfers who play once a week and hit balls every so often have the skills to play a "players iron" like a Mizuno MP-63 or Titleist AP2. If you can't play that much and don't practice I'd suggest playing a GI or SGI for the fun factor.  Golf is as much fun is it is individualistic, play the clubs you like, go play and have fun (there is no wrong equipment as long as your not at the office). 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Road Dog 

If you are accurate enough with GIs to get down to a 5.5, you may be able to get lower by gaining that extra bit of accuracy that a blade offers. 

But beware, my index skyrocketed after changing from GI's to players irons...loved the feel & feedback when struck well, but the decreased forgiveness hurt my scores.  (I wasn't a 5.5 mind you, more like a 12, so maybe my swing wasn't good enough yet).  Getting the index back down after switching back to GI's.

And looks can go both ways as well--for me, I feel more confident with a little thicker GI clubhead, where with a blade it looks so small I feel like I have to hit it perfectly to get a decent result.

Why do people drive Volkswagen when they could drive a Cadillac?  Why do they drive SUVs instead of corollas?  Matter of preference I suppose.  I am an OK golfer that I am pretty sure would see a marked improvement by going to a game improvement type of club, yet I prefer to play a more typical players club.  Why?  Who knows? 

I guess I grew up in the time that good players played forged, not so good players played cast cavity backed clubs.  I think part of it is I still cling on to the idea I am good enough to play-hard to play clubs.  I don't want to admit I am getting older, fatter, weaker, to the point I have to get huge, oversize, cavity back clubs to be able to compete.   For some reason I have in the back of my head that if i can play blades, if I ever picked up a set of GI clubs, I would immediately shoot 65, I just choose not to, yet.    

But the fact is I have lost 50 yards on my drives in the last 15 years, I used to be pissed if I wasn't within 10' of the cup from 175 in, now I am happy if I hit the green from that far.  I have started to look for a new set of irons, and am leaning towards some of those new-fangled watermelon sized clubs, with a big chunk missing in the back, and a crazy angled hosel.  We will see what I end up with.  :)

Brew