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"Swing Machine Golf" by Paul Wilson - Page 6

post #91 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackmanMaestro View Post

Paul, I'm in Vegas too. I can swing by anytime...... do you happen to own Trackman or Flightscope?

 

I would be very interested to know how this meeting goes. Please post your comments on Paul's teaching here when you get a chance. Thanks.

post #92 of 140

I purchased Swing Machine Golf in 2007.  I hadn't golfed since high school and wanted to learn a legit swing.  I could hit the ball, but I was wildly inconsistent.  What Paul teaches makes sense to me.  Obviously humans are not machines.  We will never mimic Iron Byron perfectly, but what Paul teaches is more or less a set of simple and standard swing thoughts.  Solid grip, solid setup, coil from top, uncoil from the bottom.  

 

Handicaps in chronological order:

 

2006 - 22

2007 - (pre Swing Machine) - 19

2007 - (post Swing Machine) - 14

2008 - 10

2009 - 9

2010 - 8

2011 - 6  (after reviewing and working on Paul's short game DVD's)

2012 - still a 6 after practicing less due to family obligations

2013 - first round out - 79...not bad after a long long long layoff!

 

Bottom line - I picked Swing Machine Golf and stuck with it and knocked 16 pts off my handicap.  If I hit trouble I simply reviewed the trouble-shooting sections.  That's the beauty of sticking with a system.  You can diagnose and fix your issues.  I used to be a "swing of the day" type of player.  That is a recipe for disaster.  Seriously, if you get a golf magazine, only read it for the articles about tour life, the rules section and the equipment reviews.  If you track the "tips" from month to month, you will find more inconsistencies than a campaign speech.  

 

That being said, my first few months of Swing Machine were a complete and utter disaster....but Paul warned me about this.  I stuck with it and got better.  And better....and better. Eventually it clicked and I realized that golf is not a game of instant gratification.  Golf is literally a 20 Mile March. In other words - pick a strategy and stick the hell to it!

 

I'm still a 6.  But I 'm getting better.  And I'll keep to on this path.  

 

--JD

post #93 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd924 View Post

From your posts with iacas and the way you were displaying your knowledge about the golf swing, it appeared to be a safe assumption (that you didnt know the correct ball flight laws). If you think that's "insulting" along with "bashing without knowing anything you teach" your flat out wrong. I've watched your videos, you teach not to slide, we know its wrong. Bringing this to your attention is "bashing" yea okay buddy. I guess you "bash" every student you teach when you find a flaw in his/her's swing. 

 

 

I wasnt "ridiculing" I was asking why he thought that sliding was bad when most would agree it isnt true. But thats enough, get back to the topic of his book. 

 

For future reference, when making insults and doing your best best to promote or undercut an instructor and his/her swing method, please do your best to use correct grammar.  For instance, you said, "your flat our wrong.......and some other business about the golf swing and your teaching/golfing method is better etc., etc....."

 

I think what you meant is, "you're wrong...blah blah blah......" - as is in...you are....

 

In a practical example, "jd924, you're the best golfer EVER!  And the best at offering up advice about a hip slide and ball flight laws."  

 

But seriously I have no doubt that a hip slide helped you and fits into your swing profile.  A non-slide method works for me.  In all sincerity, all golfers are different.  I had a horrible image of a hip slide in my head.  Now I don't and I play better golf.  Do my hips still slide...yes they do to an extent.  And as far as your comments on ball flight laws -- seriously -- if you figure those out you need to call somebody and publish that business for some serious profit!

 

To this day, there are multiple ball flight "laws".  Oddly enough.  And I agree.  Face angle, aim line, path, etc. can be confusing.  Physics is like that.  The other day I was reading an article that ref'd Harvey Penick talking about how to shape shots.  I then crossed it with an article by Byron Nelson regarding the same subject matter which said similar things.  Then I recalled an article/interview with Sean Foley and the S&T guys taking about other factors, which also make sense.  And then there is Tom Watson's DVD's which are seemingly "old school methods" talking about hitting a fade with an open stance and an open club face.  All I'm trying to say, is to each his/her own.  

 

Paul's method works for me.  Another method works for you.  You're to a 6.9.  That is some good golfing of the ball!!!  Hip side and all!!!!

post #94 of 140

I've been doing Paul's system for the last couple years and have taken about 15-20 strokes off my game, started at 110-15 average and I am now in the 90's I've even hit as low as 87.

 

I'd however like to work on taking a divot after hitting the ball, does anyone have any suggestions?

post #95 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post
 

I've been doing Paul's system for the last couple years and have taken about 15-20 strokes off my game, started at 110-15 average and I am now in the 90's I've even hit as low as 87.

 

I'd however like to work on taking a divot after hitting the ball, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

At the risk of sounding controversial...hip slide.

post #96 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post
 

I've been doing Paul's system for the last couple years and have taken about 15-20 strokes off my game, started at 110-15 average and I am now in the 90's I've even hit as low as 87.

 

I'd however like to work on taking a divot after hitting the ball, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Similar to what Ernest said, focus on Keys 1, 2 and 3, primarily 2 and 3.  http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys

post #97 of 140
No offense but I'd like to here from some of the people who do swing machine golf. I'm focusing on his method which teaches a hip turn not a slide. I've had a slide before and for me all it did was cause a slice.
post #98 of 140

I would recommend a swing that focuses on keeping your weight forward like the stack and tilt

post #99 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post

No offense but I'd like to here from some of the people who do swing machine golf. I'm focusing on his method which teaches a hip turn not a slide. I've had a slide before and for me all it did was cause a slice.

 

No offense taken. But I hope you take none to this: the best golfers (PGA Tour level) get between 85 and 95% of their "weight" forward at impact with their irons. How are you going to do that by only turning your hips?

 

And it's not 1:1, but it's a high percentage - those who turn their hips too much in relation to how much lateral motion they get from their hips (zero in some cases) tend to hit the weakest slices.

post #100 of 140
At impact I'm not sure how much of my weight is on my front foot, but at the end of my follow through 99% of my weight is on the outside of my front foot. I'm not saying I don't have a hip slide, but I don't do it intentionally, when I do it intentionally it results in a 2 fairways over push fade.

I appreciate your input, if you would like to know who's golf swing I am trying to emulate, Ernie Els is a good example.
post #101 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post

At impact I'm not sure how much of my weight is on my front foot, but at the end of my follow through 99% of my weight is on the outside of my front foot. I'm not saying I don't have a hip slide, but I don't do it intentionally, when I do it intentionally it results in a 2 fairways over push fade.

I appreciate your input, if you would like to know who's golf swing I am trying to emulate, Ernie Els is a good example.

 

At the end of your swing it's irrelevant. A lot of people let their arms pull their weight to the front foot at the end of their golf swing.

 

Ernie Els slides his hips forward.

 

 

You're likely doing what a lot of higher handicappers do: you're leaving your weight back a bit too much. That forces your forearms to roll over each other. When you slide your hips forward, that rolling over is inhibited, so you leave the clubface pointing well to the right.

 

The trick is not to try to improve the "weight-back-forearm-rolling" motion, but to improve the "weight-forward-properly-squaring-the-clubface-properly" motion.

 

Post a video in the My Swings section of the site.

post #102 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

At the end of your swing it's irrelevant. A lot of people let their arms pull their weight to the front foot at the end of their golf swing.

 

Ernie Els slides his hips forward.

 

 

You're likely doing what a lot of higher handicappers do: you're leaving your weight back a bit too much. That forces your forearms to roll over each other. When you slide your hips forward, that rolling over is inhibited, so you leave the clubface pointing well to the right.

 

The trick is not to try to improve the "weight-back-forearm-rolling" motion, but to improve the "weight-forward-properly-squaring-the-clubface-properly" motion.

 

Post a video in the My Swings section of the site.

 

 

Actually when I start my downswing I focus on pushing off with my right foot's insole and turning my hips to begin my downswing and that is what triggers my weight shift to my left foot, as if I am throwing a baseball, or football. The whole point of Paul's swing method, is using your lower body/abs/shoulders to power your swing and making your arms powerless creating a whipping action. 

 

I'm not saying what you teach or do is wrong, because I believe that there is more than one way to hit a golf ball, and everyone has to figure out what works best for them and perfect it. I'll post up a video on the my swings section when I can, I'll have to go to the range in the next week or so.

Here is a good video I like from Els.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Lzgt2kkrI

post #103 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post
 

Actually when I start my downswing I focus on pushing off with my right foot's insole and turning my hips to begin my downswing and that is what triggers my weight shift to my left foot, as if I am throwing a baseball, or football. The whole point of Paul's swing method, is using your lower body/abs/shoulders to power your swing and making your arms powerless creating a whipping action.

 

Then if you're doing that properly at all, your hips are moving towards the target.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowcelica View Post
 

I'm not saying what you teach or do is wrong, because I believe that there is more than one way to hit a golf ball, and everyone has to figure out what works best for them and perfect it. I'll post up a video on the my swings section when I can, I'll have to go to the range in the next week or so.

 

I agree that there are plenty of ways, but every good player has five things in common, and one of them is where their weight is at impact (well forward). Read up a little here: http://purestrike5sk.com/ . Paul Azinger, Lee Trevino, Jack, Arnie, Tiger, Jim Furyk - all have those five things in common. #2 is managing their weight at impact.

 

Good luck. Looking forward to your swing video. You may already slide your hips just fine, but it might FEEL like you only turn them. Completely possible.

post #104 of 140

Interesting discussion. I rarely get involved with this type of thing and usually prefer just to read what others have to say. I applaud the forum owners for allowing this material to be presented to give their subscribers different viewpoints.  Personally, I like Paul Wilson's methods and they pretty much reinforce much of what  I am already doing. This article prompted me to study further the background of the Iron Byron. Paul's is not the only one however, as Mike Bender has a similar system under the name of Megsa or something or other. They appear to be very similar in nature, but I have not read or tried the actual products. Many golf forums being proprietary in nature, often times will go to great lengths to discourage input from other entities that might conflict with their own agenda.  That does not seem to be the case here.

 

a side note on the hip slide.  I believe that there will always be elements of both, there has to be.  I agree with Paul that it being something he does not intentionally focus on as it occurs naturally. If you close your eyes, make a back swing with passive arms, initiate the down swing with a hip turn and open your eyes after impact, you will note your hips have slid in that direction. The angle of the right knee will be pretty much the same as if you intentionally slid your hips to the left.  If this does not occur, you have swayed to the right and left too much weight on your trailing leg as has been pointed out by the last poster.

post #105 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner View Post
 

This article prompted me to study further the background of the Iron Byron. Paul's is not the only one however, as Mike Bender has a similar system under the name of Megsa or something or other. They appear to be very similar in nature.…

 

No, they're not similar at all. Iron Byron is a machine capable of swinging a golf club. MEGSA is just a bunch of tubes and things that can be added, removed, re-located, etc. to train a golfer. It's a training aid, while Iron Byron is a testing aid (typically used by club and ball manufacturers to test their clubs or balls). They're not even close to the same thing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner View Post
 

a side note on the hip slide.  I believe that there will always be elements of both, there has to be.  I agree with Paul that it being something he does not intentionally focus on as it occurs naturally. If you close your eyes, make a back swing with passive arms, initiate the down swing with a hip turn and open your eyes after impact, you will note your hips have slid in that direction. The angle of the right knee will be pretty much the same as if you intentionally slid your hips to the left.  If this does not occur, you have swayed to the right and left too much weight on your trailing leg as has been pointed out by the last poster.

 

Yes, there are elements to both. I will disagree that the hip slide occurs naturally. For many, many people, it does not, and we have the data on this as well. For most people, working on getting their weight forward more (and properly, and at the right moment) is one of the first things they have to work on.

 

You may be in the minority, and that's a good thing because it means you are ahead of most, but I have yet to see any data or anything that contradicts the data I have on what the average golfers do re: their hip slide. This thread is still relevant: http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips . :)

post #106 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

No, they're not similar at all. Iron Byron is a machine capable of swinging a golf club. MEGSA is just a bunch of tubes and things that can be added, removed, re-located, etc. to train a golfer. It's a training aid, while Iron Byron is a testing aid (typically used by club and ball manufacturers to test their clubs or balls). They're not even close to the same thing.

 

 

http://www.megsamethod.com/get/the-megsa-method-video?utm_source=gt-megsa&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gt-megsa-direct-vsl-e1&utm_campaign=gt-megsa-direct-vsl

 

Although the narrator I believe is Mr. Olyer, he is talking about Megsa. Nothing whatsoever mentioned as you describe.

post #107 of 140

I doubt if he will, but perhaps Paul Wilson can step in and clarify if what he and Mike Bender are talking about are  more or less the same thing? There seems to be some disagreement on who the inventor of Iron Byron is.  Both state that it was at True Temper, but the articles list different inventors.

post #108 of 140

We do not teach the same thing.  Someone showed me Mike Bender's book a while ago.  I reviewed it and we are not on the same page.  Keep in mind I had the inventor of Iron Byron (George Manning) standing right in front of me backing up everything I teach in my DVD series. I have also bee using Iron Byron in my teaching since 1999. 

 

I actually took lessons from Mike Bender many years ago in Orlando. This was back when his teaching was teaching based on Mac O'Grady's research. 

 

Weight Shift

 

For those that do not understand how the weight will shift if you just turn your hips here is how it happens:

 

The weight shifts automatically because getting to my "Touch the Legs" position into the follow through requires you to shift your weight.  It is impossible to get to this position if you do not shift your weight.  So, I know the weight shift will happen if you hit my position so why would I tell you to shift your weight?

 

From the top of the backswing to impact is approx. 1/4 of a second.  In this time, I need you to be thinking about turning (knowing the weight will automatically shift).  If the arms are powerless (like they are in Iron Byron) the mass (club) will move towards 90 degrees to the axis (body) thus flattening the plane in the downswing allowing the club to swing out at the ball.

 

Conclusion

 

People need to know my whole technique.  Hearing bits and pieces or thinking they know what I teach does not give people the whole picture so you are left wondering how this and that occurs.  I don't really teach anything bizarre or out of the ordinary it is how I put it together and explain it that differs from other teachers.  Anyone and everyone is more than welcome to come and watch me teach. 

 

FYI

 

I really do not have time to be posting a lot so I may jump in when I have time.

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