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What should I work on the most? - Page 5

post #73 of 107

Id suggest working on your irons, then your putting, then your short game, then your driving.  IMO, irons are the most important because those are the clubs that you to be efficient with so that you can advance your ball effectively.

Then I say putting because if you can go from all 3-putts to mostly 2-putts you could drop about 15 strokes off of your score.  Then work on your shortgame because thats going to help you when you miss the green (which will happen a lot when youre learning).  Then, last, I say driving.  IMO being good with the driver is a great shot to have in your bag, but its not as important to low scores as the other things Ive mentioned.

post #74 of 107
Thread Starter 

Ok, I'm the OP of this thread.  I played 9 holes again today, and got my number of putting strokes down to 19.  I had 2 3 putts, and 1 1 putt (nice 15 footer for a birdie).  I could definitely see an improvement on the putting greens.

 

I posted my swing in the official "swing thread" as per the rules of the forum.  It's a 9 iron swing, DTL.  Couldn't get face on because the range was too crowded.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/40290/my-swing-unkynd/18#post_573996

 

I'm interested to see if people think my swing is better, worse, or about right for someone that hasn't broken 100 yet.

post #75 of 107


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith View Post

Considering that you are a 1 handicap, I am a little surpirsed at your post; specifically, your analysis of Tiger Woods in which you basically called him a poor ballstriker.  If that is what you really meant, then that might be the most lucrative thing I have heard on this forum and proves that you have a VERY short memory.  I agree that Tiger has obvious issues off of the tee and I also agree that he is a wizard at scrambling but I refuse to grossly disregard the MANY moments where he showed excellence in all aspects of ballstriking which caused him to dominate everyone on the PGA tour.

 

Deryk, Where did i say Tiger was a bad ballstriker? I did not even infer he was, I said he covered his errors with a magical short game,  and I believe we can all agree he is missing too many 4-8 footers. My Tiger comparison was in response to the post that a pro could still score from some of the places an average players may hit.

post #76 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkynd View Post

Ok, I'm the OP of this thread.  I played 9 holes again today, and got my number of putting strokes down to 19.  I had 2 3 putts, and 1 1 putt (nice 15 footer for a birdie).  I could definitely see an improvement on the putting greens.

 

I posted my swing in the official "swing thread" as per the rules of the forum.  It's a 9 iron swing, DTL.  Couldn't get face on because the range was too crowded.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/40290/my-swing-unkynd/18#post_573996

 

I'm interested to see if people think my swing is better, worse, or about right for someone that hasn't broken 100 yet.



Yep, work on your swing.  You have no coordination built up just yet, so you won't be able to chip and putt well either.  You need to work on (and here's a shock) not flipping the club.  About 99.99% of all golfers flip the club.  The rest are very low handicaps.

post #77 of 107

Yeah, you flip through the hitting zone, no question.. But your swing is good enough right now to break 100.  Get a Tourstriker, practice hitting with a forward shaft lean, and work on your short game and putting.  You are not that far off.  Good luck.

post #78 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanks A Million View Post

 

 

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?

jawdrop.jpg

 

Are you kidding me?  You think Tiger could score the way he does if he was putting for double bogey on every hole?  That's the reality, high handicappers have bad swings, period.  I too have seen many scratch golfers with ugly swings, but they are UGLY, not bad.  An ugly but on plane swing with a forward leaning shaft at impact is fine.

 

Too many people believe in the short game fantasy.  If you're taking 5 shots to reach a par 4, forget it, you have no chance.  When a tour pro misses the green, it's nearly always because their approach was off line.  They get it up and down because they're near the green.  When you're 200 yards out and you're hitting 3 on a par 4, you've got no chance.

 

I've got a better idea.  Go look at videos of tour pros, and find me a tour pro who's hands are behind the ball at impact.  I'll be waiting.



I'm more than aware off how a golf ball should be struck but actually doing it is the holy grail. The OP has a 35 handicap and is looking to break 100, the short term fix for him is to practice his putting. On the opposite end of the scale you have Sergio Garcia the greatest ball striker the game has known, but soon as he gets on the dance floor his demons take over. The old adage driving for show putting for dough springs to mind, if you cant get the ball in the hole you have nothing 

post #79 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddenhard View Post


 

 

Deryk, Where did i say Tiger was a bad ballstriker? I did not even infer he was, I said he covered his errors with a magical short game,  and I believe we can all agree he is missing too many 4-8 footers. My Tiger comparison was in response to the post that a pro could still score from some of the places an average players may hit.


This is what you said:

 

"Tiger is no longer superman, when he was winning it was because he dropped impossible long putts, and never missed a short one. He chipped close or in. Even when he was winning he missed fairways but recovered. Now his magic short game is average and he can't cover his errors, just like us amateurs"
 

Sorry.  I didn't mean to imply that you actually said that so for that, I apologize.  However, to me, I feel like you overly underestimated Tiger's ballstriking and also underestimated how much his ballstriking helped keep the other areas of his game stitched together.  In my opinion, he recovered from his errors due to his ballstriking ability and it was dazzling when he would pull off iron shots from the rough, behind a tree, etc.  That is a level of ballstriking that very few have and is WHY he won.  But also keep in mind that it wasn't "all that bad" either.  Tiger has won many tournaments where he striped the ball from round 1 to round 4.  So it's interesting to me that everyone forgets that. 

 

There are many VERY good putters and short game players on the PGA tour, even when Tiger was dominating.  I would agru that right now, Tiger isn't winning mostly due to his ballstriking being off vs. his short game being off.  Actually in fact, because his ballstriking is off right now, it has clearly put massive amounts of pressure on his short game.

 

My absolute best rounds to date have all been when I struck the ball the best.  My proximity to the hole was better (which improved my putting) and my chips were just off of the green (which improved my ability to get up and down).  There are only so many poor mid & short iron shots you can recover from before your game starts to slide or fall apar despite having a good short game.  When Tiger gets back to striping his irons like he used to, he will win again and also putt and chip better. Not the other way around.

 

So, in going back to the OP, I am a firm believer that becoming a better ballstriker is an absolute MUST if you want to improve.  Another good example is a very good friend of mine who's a PRO who averages under 29 putts a round and has a SOLID, and I mean SOLID short game (chippping, pitching, sand saves, etc).  Last summer, his handicap index ballooned from a +1 to a 3.5.  Why because he lost his ballstriking all last summer.  He was fighting with his swing all summer and despiate a magical short game, raised his index by 2.5 strokes (his highest in 5 years).  His drving was still "ok" but his irons left him...and left him fast. When I talked to him this winter on what he is working on?  The only word he said was Ballstriking...

post #80 of 107

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthejoiner View Post

The old adage driving for show putting for dough springs to mind, if you cant get the ball in the hole you have nothing 


The single biggest difference between the average golfer and the best golfers is ballstriking. Putting plays a role, but a terrible putter is only going to lose 9 or 10 strokes to a really good putter. The lousy ballstriker can lose those 9 or 10 shots over the span of three holes to the great ballstriker.

 

As a short-term fix if you're on the precipice? Maybe work on your short game, sure. As a long term fix to sustained improvement? Nope.

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


The single biggest difference between the average golfer and the best golfers is ballstriking. Putting plays a role, but a terrible putter is only going to lose 9 or 10 strokes to a really good putter. The lousy ballstriker can lose those 9 or 10 shots over the span of three holes to the great ballstriker.

 

As a short-term fix if you're on the precipice? Maybe work on your short game, sure. As a long term fix to sustained improvement? Nope.


True. My worst putting round last year was an 83 with 7 three putts. My worst ballstriking round was an 89 and I scrambled like crazy for that 89. With average ballstriking and putting I'm right around 80.

post #82 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


The single biggest difference between the average golfer and the best golfers is ballstriking. Putting plays a role, but a terrible putter is only going to lose 9 or 10 strokes to a really good putter. The lousy ballstriker can lose those 9 or 10 shots over the span of three holes to the great ballstriker.

 

As a short-term fix if you're on the precipice? Maybe work on your short game, sure. As a long term fix to sustained improvement? Nope.



I would be a fool if i didn't agree with everything you said, i'm actually working on my ball striking just now. The OP wanted to break 100 and going with his stats his putting is very poor, a slight improvement would take him close if not reaching his goal. Now if he wanted to break 80 i would be telling him to work on all aspects of his game but would still put the emphasis on putting 

post #83 of 107

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthejoiner View Post

I would be a fool if i didn't agree with everything you said, i'm actually working on my ball striking just now. The OP wanted to break 100 and going with his stats his putting is very poor, a slight improvement would take him close if not reaching his goal. Now if he wanted to break 80 i would be telling him to work on all aspects of his game but would still put the emphasis on putting 


Hey, I wasn't disagreeing! :-) I just wanted to point out that "short game" is a "short term" answer and "long game" is a "long term" answer.

post #84 of 107
Thread Starter 

I've actually been putting some time into all 3.  What's odd for me is that on the range, my distances seem a lot longer (measured via google earth ruler) than my distances on the course.  I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a Rhythym on the range, whereas the shots are more broken up on the course.  It's really odd.  For instance, my 9 iron on the range goes between 110 (on a fat shot) -125 (on a good shot) yards.  Not great, but workable.  I played a par 3 course today, and on every hole that was in that range I came up short.  Not just a litttle short either.  95 yards.  100 yards.  With my 9... not sure what's up with that, but I'll try to figure it out.

 

The work I've been doing on my short game (reading Pelz Short Game Bible and working on the wedge system) really helped a lot for those shots that came up short.  Ideally, I'd rather be able to put it on the green every time, but obviously my game isn't there yet, so it's nice to have the wedges to bail me out when I screw up that tee shot.

post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


Hey, I wasn't disagreeing! :-) I just wanted to point out that "short game" is a "short term" answer and "long game" is a "long term" answer.



I've met pros who couldn't putt to save their lives.  Literally would leave 20 foot putts 8 feet short.  These guys duffed putts, yet still carried handicaps around +3.  I've, to date, never met a person who couldn't reliably strike the ball who carried a handicap any lower than about 8.  I have a friend who's a pro, and is going through Q-school, and he's a great putter, which helps offset the fact that he's not a very good ballstriker.  However, he can take out a blade 3 iron, and strike 19 of 20 shots 200+ yards and within about 15 yards of center.  He can drive it about 280 and does so every time, though it's sometimes a bit left, or maybe he'll push it.

 

What constitutes a "bad" ballstriker on tour is still likely better than anyone you've ever played with.  Go to a PGA tour event, go to the range, and watch the lowest ranked ballstrikers hit balls.  They strike them one after the other, down the middle.  What they call a "slice" is to us a mild fade.  Justin Leonard hits a big hook, but his driver moves about 10 yards left.  He hits his driver straighter than most people I know, yet on tour they call it a big hook.  These guys seem almost superhuman.  They are the top of the top of the top of the top of the top.  That's like comparing your average bar musician to Larry Carlton.  It's just not the same thing.

post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkynd View Post

I've actually been putting some time into all 3.  What's odd for me is that on the range, my distances seem a lot longer (measured via google earth ruler) than my distances on the course.  I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a Rhythym on the range, whereas the shots are more broken up on the course.  It's really odd.  For instance, my 9 iron on the range goes between 110 (on a fat shot) -125 (on a good shot) yards.  Not great, but workable.  I played a par 3 course today, and on every hole that was in that range I came up short.  Not just a litttle short either.  95 yards.  100 yards.  With my 9... not sure what's up with that, but I'll try to figure it out.

 

The work I've been doing on my short game (reading Pelz Short Game Bible and working on the wedge system) really helped a lot for those shots that came up short.  Ideally, I'd rather be able to put it on the green every time, but obviously my game isn't there yet, so it's nice to have the wedges to bail me out when I screw up that tee shot.


What i do myself on most occasions, i never a use club yardage that has been measured at my Sunday best length, so if you are hitting 125 yards with a good shot which might be 1 out of 20 you should be going up to an 8 iron and swing at about 75%, but remember it still has to be hit. What you might find is when your hitting a softer 8 it might be going close to your Sunday best 8 iron, so even if your over shooting the pin your learning a valuable lesson that you don't have to murder the ball for it to go far 
 

post #87 of 107

Either the measuring of the range distances or the yardages at the par 3 course are off.  You'll have to figure out which one.  If you or a friend don't have a GPS unit, you could always pace off the yardage of one of the holes at the course to verify whether the distance as marked is correct.

 

The Pelz short game bible is a great start to understanding your wedge play.  And you may find that utilizing his wedge swing (dead hands) could also benefit your long game as well.

post #88 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Either the measuring of the range distances or the yardages at the par 3 course are off.  You'll have to figure out which one.  If you or a friend don't have a GPS unit, you could always pace off the yardage of one of the holes at the course to verify whether the distance as marked is correct.

 

The Pelz short game bible is a great start to understanding your wedge play.  And you may find that utilizing his wedge swing (dead hands) could also benefit your long game as well.



He might be hitting everything a bit fat. That would have less of a negative effect at the driving range if he's hitting off mats. 

post #89 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

He might be hitting everything a bit fat. That would have less of a negative effect at the driving range if he's hitting off mats. 


Very true.  I didn't recall that his range had mats, but that could cause the misleading distances.  Another reason why hitting irons off mats is not ideal.

post #90 of 107
Thread Starter 

The range I go to is grass, not hitting mats.  I measured the distance at the range and the par 3 course using google earth's ruler feature.  I think I ease up on my swings when I'm on the course, because the shots go a lot straighter (toward where I'm aiming) than they do on the range, but I'm losing about 20 yards of distance per club.

 

I went out today and really focused on my follow through, because that's one area of my swing that I think is terrible.  I don't really know how to work on the flipping, because I don't feel like I'm flipping and I don't really see it on the recordings.  Not sure how to fix it, other than buying a $100 training aid, which I really don't want to do.

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