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My Swing (iacas) - Page 7

post #109 of 402

 

 

Quote:

Yeah I see what your saying, saw that one pic of the clubhead close to being out at A6,

 

Anyway, I like the changes, might not look "perfect" at A4 but definitely on track.  Makes you hate the guys that line it up "naturally" we gotta work out butt off to get it decent 

 

Yeah i would be one of those guys ...just call me Mr natural...lol!!!

post #110 of 402
Thread Starter 

 

A little bit of video from my practice last night. I was "Talent Coding" it most of the evening. These swings feature some horrible contact, but are pretty good in terms of what I was working on. I might have made more progress last night than in any single 90 minute span ever.

 

Just one thing I could have done better, really, and that was making sure (and ensuring a2_wink.gif) that I still get the full shoulder rotation. While thinking about the hands and arms I forget that and top out at 75-80 in a few of the swings, which consequently doesn't help the right elbow position either.

 

Bonus points if you get the winkied reference.

post #111 of 402

Thank you for posting this video of your practice.  It really helps me see how I need to be practicing on the range.  I tend to warm up, go slow a couple swings and then a dozen fast swings trying to concentrate on why the ball just did that. 

post #112 of 402

Good swing obviously.

I'm new to the forum, but I'm just wondering what your purpose in posting this video actually is?  As you list your handicap as pro and I see you are promoting a teaching methodology, I'm guessing it is maybe at the request of other forum members. I guess you are not seeking feedback as you say, "I will answer any questions you may have", as opposed to, "I look forward to your feedback."  Either way it's cool, I just wanted to ask, as it wasn't clear to me.

 

Anyway, to my question.  I understand that to maximize clubhead speed, I need to create the widest arc possible without bending my lead arm and without my elbows getting away from my body.  When I swing more inside, I find it much easier.  Is this the sensation you are going for, and if so, how do you balance this and maintain the optimum swing plane?  I also understand that to maximize lag, I need wrist hinge.  Where I struggle is the timing and sequence of the wrist hinge.  It looks from this (first) video that you begin the hinge about when your lead arm is parallel to the ground, or perhaps when your hands are about armpit high.  Is that right?  I realize you are not making a full swing here, more like a 3/4 swing, but I would like to hear your thoughts on that.  (I only saw the 9 minute practice session video after I had started writing this, but my questions still stand)

 

Actually to the point that your swing problems are covered by a DTL view only, I would really like to see both views.  While you may think all relevant issues can be covered by a down-the-line view, a face on view would undoubtedly be helpful for others if not for yourself.  And whether you trying to help others or interested in seeking other people's feedback, it's better to provide as much data (views) as possible.  In the same vein, I personally like to see videos in real time.  I am capable of slowing, pausing, rewinding video (even from YouTube) pretty well.  It's almost impossible to get a feeling of the rhythm/tempo of a swing in slo-mo, and a nine minute video in slo-mo is tough to get through.  Just my two cents.

 

I would be really curious to see you hit your stock 7 iron or driver (from both FO and DTL) as you would normally hit them.  A 'flying wedge' sounds like a cool shot I might need to hit once or twice a round.  But, I believe I would benefit more from seeing a pro hit bread and butter shots so that I have a baseline with which to compare my own swing.

 

Thanks for posting this and thanks in advance for any ideas you can help me with.


Edited by bilinguru - 3/7/12 at 4:31am
post #113 of 402

Sorry, about my oversight, (but not my questions,) in my last post.  I didn't even notice that there were 7 pages of threads with many videos (brainfart).  I still would like to hear what you have to say about wrist hinge though as it is something that drives me crazy sometimes.

post #114 of 402
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

I'm new to the forum, but I'm just wondering what your purpose in posting this video actually is? As you list your handicap as pro and I see you are promoting a teaching methodology, I'm guessing it is maybe at the request of other forum members. I guess you are not seeking feedback as you say, "I will answer any questions you may have", as opposed to, "I look forward to your feedback."  Either way it's cool, I just wanted to ask, as it wasn't clear to me.

 

To be clear about one thing, I'm not "promoting a teaching methodology" in the sense that you seem to mean. We have a system for instruction called Five Simple Keys® but it's not a single "method" the way the term is typically used. 
 

The purpose of this thread is the same as for others. People can ask questions, and I'll answer them. Many instructors shy away from video taping let alone showing their own swings, and I don't want to be one of those instructors.

 

I'm not looking for feedback, really, because I'm confident in my knowledge of the golf swing and what I need to work on next, but I'm happy to answer questions others have and the discussion here has led to a few new threads, like the right elbow position thread (and some others).

 

In software there's a phrase about "eating your own dog food" and this thread is largely me doing just that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

Anyway, to my question. I understand that to maximize clubhead speed, I need to create the widest arc possible without bending my lead arm and without my elbows getting away from my body.

 

A few quick comments:

- "Wide" often means something very different than the "wide" we'd like to see in reality. Wide rarely seems to include "depth" even though "depth" is another way to get your hands and the clubhead farther from the ball. I would agree generally that if the hands (and clubhead) travel farther from the ball, we can generate more speed.

- If I was building a swing to ONLY hit the ball as far as possible, I might very well add another lever and let my left arm bend. Timing it would be more difficult, but I've seen plenty of long drive guys bend the left arm. It's another lever and moving it from bent to straight can add speed.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

When I swing more inside, I find it much easier.  Is this the sensation you are going for, and if so, how do you balance this and maintain the optimum swing plane?

 

The thing is, "what" are you swinging to the "inside"? Most likely it's more the clubhead than your hands. The point of the most recent swings is to work on right elbow position at the top of the backswing and in transition. I'm accomplishing this in several ways: a little right wrist bend back and cocking earlier in the backswing (exaggerated in the videos, hence the Rickie Fowler look to the takeaway), keeping the right upper arm pointing more back and less behind and around the shirt seam, and eventually I'll work on going slightly more pitch elbow from there.

 

All of the work I'm doing is to avoid the situation where the clubhead gets a little inside the hands at A2, the right elbow gets behind the shirt seam from A3 to A4, the club tips out from A3.5 to A4.5, and I uncock slightly to keep the club on plane. In really, really, really simple terms my club goes from shallow to steep right now when it will ideally remain on plane throughout the motion.

 

I'm close, but I'm still working at it as it's my biggest priority piece right now.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

I also understand that to maximize lag, I need wrist hinge. Where I struggle is the timing and sequence of the wrist hinge. It looks from this (first) video that you begin the hinge about when your lead arm is parallel to the ground, or perhaps when your hands are about armpit high.  Is that right? I realize you are not making a full swing here, more like a 3/4 swing, but I would like to hear your thoughts on that.  (I only saw the 9 minute practice session video after I had started writing this, but my questions still stand)

 

I could write pages on lag (and you could say I already have in Swing Thoughts), but the long and short of it is lag is more of a reaction than something you manually "create" or "hold on to" or anything.

 

I don't care when a golfer creates some wrist hinge and cocking, but if their body is out of sequence, their arms are late getting down, etc. then they're going to have a difficult time maintaining the proper amount of lag until impact.

 

But no, I'm cocking and hinging the clubhead very early, well before A3 (see the golf terminology link if the position numbers don't make sense yet).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

Actually to the point that your swing problems are covered by a DTL view only, I would really like to see both views. While you may think all relevant issues can be covered by a down-the-line view, a face on view would undoubtedly be helpful for others if not for yourself.

 

For the issues on which I'm currently working, no, it won't help me much. The right elbow is obscured, the right forearm angle is impossible to see, etc. There are a few FO videos - including one or two in the Talent Code session video - if you look for them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

In the same vein, I personally like to see videos in real time.  I am capable of slowing, pausing, rewinding video (even from YouTube) pretty well.


I don't. You simply cannot see at 30 FPS or even 60 FPS what can be seen at 240 FPS or 120 FPS.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

It's almost impossible to get a feeling of the rhythm/tempo of a swing in slo-mo, and a nine minute video in slo-mo is tough to get through.  Just my two cents.

 

Then the video isn't for you. These swings don't have rhythm or tempo - half of them are paused as I check positions, exaggerate, stop halfway down, and then just swing the rest of the way to get the ball out of the way so I can begin working on the backswing again. The video showed how I am practicing this move, and it's not by just blasting ball after ball, but through a very thought-out method of practicing - exaggeration, slow-motion (my swing not just the video), segmenting, etc.

 

It all speaks to this thread.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilinguru View Post

I would be really curious to see you hit your stock 7 iron or driver (from both FO and DTL) as you would normally hit them. A 'flying wedge' sounds like a cool shot I might need to hit once or twice a round. But, I believe I would benefit more from seeing a pro hit bread and butter shots so that I have a baseline with which to compare my own swing.


I think you misunderstand what a "flying wedge" is. It's not a shot or a club or a certain kind of swing. It's an angle, most commonly the angle between the right forearm and club shaft - i.e. the right wrist angle.

 

If I ever record a swing at full speed, I'll probably post it. I posted one above somewhere, earlier in the thread. It's not very helpful, which again is why I don't record in that mode very often.

post #115 of 402

iacas concerning your practice footage: you said you were trying to groove certain movements but I still wonder about your deep hands motion.  It looks like you're creating a loop with the club head staying above the plane on the backswing and then dropping it down on plane in the down swing.  Is this simply promoting a particular feel?

post #116 of 402

Thanks for your answers.  Very helpful.

post #117 of 402

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

A little bit of video from my practice last night. I was "Talent Coding" it most of the evening. These swings feature some horrible contact, but are pretty good in terms of what I was working on. I might have made more progress last night than in any single 90 minute span ever.

 

Just one thing I could have done better, really, and that was making sure (and ensuring a2_wink.gif) that I still get the full shoulder rotation. While thinking about the hands and arms I forget that and top out at 75-80 in a few of the swings, which consequently doesn't help the right elbow position either.

 

Bonus points if you get the winkied reference.



Iacas,

 

Looks like we're working on similar things regarding the right elbow, although we have some setup and takeaway differences.

 

post #118 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

 . . . right elbow position either.

 

Bonus points if you get the winkied reference.



Iacas,

 

Looks like we're working on similar things regarding the right elbow, although we have some setup and takeaway differences.

 


You should seen him waggle with a tee in his mouth - you'll think you're looking in a mirror.

 

Sorry - off topic.

 

post #119 of 402
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Broom View Post

iacas concerning your practice footage: you said you were trying to groove certain movements but I still wonder about your deep hands motion.  It looks like you're creating a loop with the club head staying above the plane on the backswing and then dropping it down on plane in the down swing.  Is this simply promoting a particular feel?


Ideally there's no "dropping it down" going on at all. My hands are a little higher in these practice swings (right elbow is a bit more disconnected from torso than in real swings), but they come down fairly well on plane, and that's all I'm looking to do in reality: take them back on a good plane, not have the club tip out or the elbow get too far behind me, and then deliver them straight down the plane.

post #120 of 402

Is this the swing you bring to gameday?

 

Just wondering why you bring the club head out so far from parallel on the backswing?  I see Tiger doing this now with Shawn Foley.  It almost feels "Jim Furyk" like when I try it...  and I dont want to go there.  You wind up in great position at the top and then on the downswing you dont follow an outside path...  just wondering what you're trying to accomplish from that? 

 

As you've seen from the swing I posted of myself, I'm more of a "same plane" kinda guy through-out the swing.  It just seems simpler to me.

 

 

post #121 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Oh boy. Here goes nothin'…

 

ce821f11_AnalyzrImageExport16.jpeg



I have always wanted to say this: "It looks like the "range" your using has you hitting into a brick wall, or will break a window."  I assume there is a net. Just looks funny (and dangerous).

 

I like this drill, I notice that my right elbow gets way behind me. I will have to try some drills in the mirror to see if I can correct this. This may help my OTT swing. The problem is that I scour these forums and take all the helpful tips and advice and apply them 'willy nilly" without structure or an order. I am never sure by correcting one thing if it's really working because I should have corrected something else first to build upon. 

 

Thanks for all the hard work you do and advice you give.

post #122 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3R00st3r View Post



I have always wanted to say this: "It looks like the "range" your using has you hitting into a brick wall, or will break a window."  I assume there is a net. Just looks funny (and dangerous).

 

Nets are for pussies a1_smile.gif  Those Erie guys are tough

 

yes there is a net
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3R00st3r View Post

I like this drill, I notice that my right elbow gets way behind me. I will have to try some drills in the mirror to see if I can correct this. This may help my OTT swing. The problem is that I scour these forums and take all the helpful tips and advice and apply them 'willy nilly" without structure or an order. I am never sure by correcting one thing if it's really working because I should have corrected something else first to build upon. 

 

Thanks for all the hard work you do and advice you give.


Not to get too far off topic but more than likely your seeing an OTT motion due to not enough pressure being applied into the forward foot on the downswing.  Towards the end of the downswing, if you imagined you were crushing something under your left foot, you'll flex your left knee, which helps get the hips forward.  Just turning from the top of the backswing will give you that OTT look, so don't do that lol

post #123 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

 

Nets are for pussies a1_smile.gif  Those Erie guys are tough

 

yes there is a net
 

 


Not to get too far off topic but more than likely your seeing an OTT motion due to not enough pressure being applied into the forward foot on the downswing.  Towards the end of the downswing, if you imagined you were crushing something under your left foot, you'll flex your left knee, which helps get the hips forward.  Just turning from the top of the backswing will give you that OTT look, so don't do that lol


Thanks, will give that a try.

Back to the topic at hand.

 

post #124 of 402
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyjoe145 View Post

Is this the swing you bring to gameday?


I don't know what video you're referring to, but since you talked about plane, no, I tried to make clear in the original post with that video that I'm doing a drill in those videos. "Regular motion" is getting better every day.

post #125 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_hirshfield View Post

Left - pull cut

Right - high push draw.

 

Most would say the golfer on the left hit the draw because he 'released' the club, but the opposite happened.

P8.5_clubface_curve.jpg



Alot of guys look like the guy on the left and they hit push draws all day so don't understand your logic here....

post #126 of 402
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by poser View Post

Alot of guys look like the guy on the left and they hit push draws all day so don't understand your logic here....


We don't see them very often, and I doubt you see them as often as you think. The clubface has rolled quite a bit, and was unlikely to be pointing right at impact.

 

But that discussion is a bit OT for this thread. ;) Feel free to start a new one. I'll give James the URL to it and he can explain it himself a bit more, perhaps.

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