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Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern - Page 10

post #163 of 238
Dude I read through this and that's not what was being said I think. Isn't that guy just saying hitting up might throw other things off? I've heard several Trackman guys say that the attack angle thing is overrated.
post #164 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post
I've heard several Trackman guys say that the attack angle thing is overrated.

Optimal numbers for total distance:

Carry distance, probably the more important advantage:

I'd take the extra carry and additional rollout. The negative AOA is nowhere close to the positive AOA. I'd rather hit up or close to level even if I play a draw.

post #165 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

Isn't that guy just saying hitting up might throw other things off?

 

Yes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

I've heard several Trackman guys say that the attack angle thing is overrated.

 

That depends on how importantly you rate it.

post #166 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciusWooding View Post

Optimal numbers for total distance:

en
Carry distance, probably the more important advantage:


I'd take the extra carry and additional rollout. The negative AOA is nowhere close to the positive AOA. I'd rather hit up or close to level even if I play a draw.

Those seem like pretty extreme numbers to me...,I hit up on the ball but swing to far from the inside and often snap a roo hahaha. -5 was like my 9 iron when I got on the Trackman. I doubt carry is more important than accuracy for us chops big dog.
post #167 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post


Those seem like pretty extreme numbers to me...,I hit up on the ball but swing to far from the inside and often snap a roo hahaha. -5 was like my 9 iron when I got on the Trackman. I doubt carry is more important than accuracy for us chops big dog.

Carry distance is probably the #1 indicator of driving skill. Accuracy is definitely overrated off the tee. Someone who hits a lot of fairways but can't carry 100 yards is not a good driver. You don't want to lose balls by hitting wild misses, but a wide dispersion isn't that big a deal if you keep it in your cone.

 

Also, I'd rather hit it over things than into them. Trees and other obstructions, as well as hazards, become irrelevant to your aim if you can clear them with carry.

post #168 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciusWooding View Post

Carry distance is probably the #1 indicator of driving skill. Accuracy is definitely overrated off the tee. Someone who hits a lot of fairways but can't carry 100 yards is not a good driver. You don't want to lose balls by hitting wild misses, but a wide dispersion isn't that big a deal if you keep it in your cone.

Also, I'd rather hit it over things than into them. Trees and other obstructions, as well as hazards, become irrelevant to your aim if you can clear them with carry.


How far you carry indicates how good you are? I disagree big dog. Maybe for someone who can't generate any speed but 10 more yards doesn't matter all that much to me if it ain't straight. Where I play you can't have wide dispersion off the tee and stay in play. If you can't carry it 100 yards you've got much bigger issues lol
post #169 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post


How far you carry indicates how good you are? I disagree big dog. Maybe for someone who can't generate any speed but 10 more yards doesn't matter all that much to me if it ain't straight. Where I play you can't have wide dispersion off the tee and stay in play. If you can't carry it 100 yards you've got much bigger issues lol

 

 

Well those who carry the ball farther have higher club head speed, which means they are better golfers. RARELY do you find a golfer who his a very high handicap who can hit it a far way. By far, I mean high 200's. So for them they are not going to miss many fairways, and if they do not by much. 

 

So yes those who hit it farther are better drivers of the golf ball. If you are talking pro's not necessarily because now you are talking the top 1% of all golfers. 

post #170 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post


How far you carry indicates how good you are? 

 

Yes, better players have better mechanics, good mechanics produce more speed. There are obviously outliers on both sides, the bogey golfer that can hit it 300, the old guy that hits it 230 but is still a low single digit, but they are by far the exception.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64681/handicap-versus-clubhead-speed-driving-distance/108#post_910534

post #171 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post


How far you carry indicates how good you are? I disagree big dog. Maybe for someone who can't generate any speed but 10 more yards doesn't matter all that much to me if it ain't straight. Where I play you can't have wide dispersion off the tee and stay in play. If you can't carry it 100 yards you've got much bigger issues lol

I'm talking about dispersion within a shot pattern, not a 2 way spray. A pull fade, for example, can start at the left rough and cut all the way to the right rough or anywhere in between; those results will all be in play even though it can be 40+ yards from one side to the other. If you aim down the center and don't know if it will draw or fade, you're likely to curve away from play, plus you'll hit into trouble on a lot of doglegs.

 

We're not talking about 10 yards either, look at the charts. It's more like 30 if you do it right; there were only 36 yards of average driving distance between the absolute best and worst drivers on tour last year. So it's only the difference between being an elite world class driver and a borderline tour pro. The former archetype wins a lot more tournaments than the latter.

 

In addition, I have a tree lined course but I can cut some of the corners and take a lot of yards off the hole as well as getting to a bigger landing area, simply because I hit it high and take advantage of the carry. If I hit a lower shot, even if I had the same overall distance, I'd be way too low and end up needing to lay up. Believe me, I've tried playing the course with hybrids and irons off the tee to keep it in the fairway, but you get away with murder if you get extra carry. I score way lower hitting drivers even though it's not as accurate. Closer to the hole = more GIRs, more GIRs = lower average score.

 

We're talking drivers here, you can always hit a 3 wood or hybrid if you feel like trading distance for accuracy. The driver is really supposed to be for maximum carry and not necessarily used on all 14 driving holes. For that, it's better to hit up.

post #172 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Yes, better players have better mechanics, good mechanics produce more speed. There are obviously outliers on both sides, the bogey golfer that can hit it 300, the old guy that hits it 230 but is still a low single digit, but they are by far the exception.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64681/handicap-versus-clubhead-speed-driving-distance/108#post_910534
Oh yea I totally agree that faster means further, that's pretty obvious. I'm thinking though that if a good player who swings pretty fast, maybe not tour speed, but decent speed, hits the ball fairly level and with the loft on the club.... he's not any less of a driver if he hits it's straight most of the time. If he starts hitting it higher and maybe in the air longer but not as straight you can't say he's 'better' at driving. Talk to Corey Pavin or Fred Funk about that one lol:~(
post #173 of 238
Thread Starter 
The game has moved on from an era in which Corey Pavin types mattered.

Plus, longer hitters tend to be more accurate by degree measurements.
post #174 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

The game has moved on from an era in which Corey Pavin types mattered.

Plus, longer hitters tend to be more accurate by degree measurements.

No way man... I'd rock that 80s fro-stache and hit 30 foot high baby pull cuts that go 250 all day baby.,All joking aside, I think hitting up on the driver is a noble pursuit but probably not going to lower handicaps. Most typical chops aren't ever going to be 'long' hitters. I can only speak for myself but aid rather learn to poke it straight than try to hit it further! I see a lot of double digits like me in here who talk like they're scratch lol... The blind leading the blind while the kettle calls the pot black hahaha
post #175 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

No way man... I'd rock that 80s fro-stache and hit 30 foot high baby pull cuts that go 250 all day baby.,All joking aside, I think hitting up on the driver is a noble pursuit but probably not going to lower handicaps. Most typical chops aren't ever going to be 'long' hitters. I can only speak for myself but aid rather learn to poke it straight than try to hit it further! I see a lot of double digits like me in here who talk like they're scratch lol... The blind leading the blind while the kettle calls the pot black hahaha

I'm the exact opposite of you, and have been working on my swing. A natural consequence of learning a proper swing, is a high straight shot. Still working on 5 degrees up, but I think I swing at least level.

As I've only had this swing for about 3 months my handicap is still high. Just learning to reel it in. My lowest score is 40 on the back 9 of brookside course 2. Getting lots of 42s and am not intimidated by 6800 yard courses. As I haven't actively learned the short game yet, my lower scores are a direct consequence of having enough distance. Not huge, but enough.

Distance may not be the only thing you need, but it sure helps at our handicap level.
post #176 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post


No way man... I'd rock that 80s fro-stache and hit 30 foot high baby pull cuts that go 250 all day baby.,All joking aside, I think hitting up on the driver is a noble pursuit but probably not going to lower handicaps. Most typical chops aren't ever going to be 'long' hitters. I can only speak for myself but aid rather learn to poke it straight than try to hit it further! I see a lot of double digits like me in here who talk like they're scratch lol... The blind leading the blind while the kettle calls the pot black hahaha

Why do you have to be a professional for hitting up to benefit you? It adds yards at every swing speed as well as improving trajectory. I don't see how it wouldn't lower handicap by hitting it higher and farther. Driving the ball is one of the biggest differences between players in terms of strokes; and the entire point behind it is getting the ball as close to the hole off a tee as possible, ie hitting it farther. Hitting up is optimal.

 

Your argument could be brought up against any part of the game; I'll stop trying to hole any putts over 6 feet. It's a noble pursuit but most amateurs miss more than half anyway. Most chops miss a lot of greens, so who cares if I'm a lousy iron player? If you don't want to change your methods that's fine, but don't act like it will make people worse by optimizing their driving.

 

Also I think you're a bigger poser than most of us double digits by saying you hit it 250 in the fairway all the time. You and I could both miss our shots, it's not like hitting down or taking less club magically makes you hit the fairway; the increase in accuracy is very minor in terms of strokes gained but the distance is fairly helpful and will result in better results most of the time. 

post #177 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

All joking aside, I think hitting up on the driver is a noble pursuit but probably not going to lower handicaps. Most typical chops aren't ever going to be 'long' hitters. I can only speak for myself but aid rather learn to poke it straight than try to hit it further!

 

The statistics don't agree, and neither do I.

 

And I never said "long hitters" just "longer hitters." Hitting the ball farther can and does lower handicaps.

post #178 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciusWooding View Post
 

Why do you have to be a professional for hitting up to benefit you? It adds yards at every swing speed as well as improving trajectory. I don't see how it wouldn't lower handicap by hitting it higher and farther. Driving the ball is one of the biggest differences between players in terms of strokes; and the entire point behind it is getting the ball as close to the hole off a tee as possible, ie hitting it farther. Hitting up is optimal.

 

Your argument could be brought up against any part of the game; I'll stop trying to hole any putts over 6 feet. It's a noble pursuit but most amateurs miss more than half anyway. Most chops miss a lot of greens, so who cares if I'm a lousy iron player? If you don't want to change your methods that's fine, but don't act like it will make people worse by optimizing their driving.

 

Also I think you're a bigger poser than most of us double digits by saying you hit it 250 in the fairway all the time. You and I could both miss our shots, it's not like hitting down or taking less club magically makes you hit the fairway; the increase in accuracy is very minor in terms of strokes gained but the distance is fairly helpful and will result in better results most of the time. 

FWIW. I'm pretty sure that he was saying he would take that (Corey Pavin's shots) if he could. Most of us would as well because it's better than what we've got now.

 

But we would rather have it 300 and in the fairway if we had that option.

post #179 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciusWooding View Post

Why do you have to be a professional for hitting up to benefit you? It adds yards at every swing speed as well as improving trajectory. I don't see how it wouldn't lower handicap by hitting it higher and farther. Driving the ball is one of the biggest differences between players in terms of strokes; and the entire point behind it is getting the ball as close to the hole off a tee as possible, ie hitting it farther. Hitting up is optimal.

Your argument could be brought up against any part of the game; I'll stop trying to hole any putts over 6 feet. It's a noble pursuit but most amateurs miss more than half anyway. Most chops miss a lot of greens, so who cares if I'm a lousy iron player? If you don't want to change your methods that's fine, but don't act like it will make people worse by optimizing their driving.

Also I think you're a bigger poser than most of us double digits by saying you hit it 250 in the fairway all the time. You and I could both miss our shots, it's not like hitting down or taking less club magically makes you hit the fairway; the increase in accuracy is very minor in terms of strokes gained but the distance is fairly helpful and will result in better results most of the time. 

Mr Woody, I certainly am a poser as you so eloquently put it. But you obviously didn't get what I was saying. I don't hit down, in fact on Trackman I hit up a little bit but my miss is and has always been to the left. I also hit the ball quite a bit further than 250 but that's because I'm athletic and can generate power. My problem is I don't know where it's going. When I try to hit up more I hook it even worse. There's some video floating around by this Maestro guy showing that hittin up causes slices but for me that's the furthest from the truth. If I could keep the ball in the fairway more and give up a little distance to do I be all over it... Like Pavin or Funk. I have no idea if they hit up down or what. Hitting straight and making sound swings has nothing to do with hitting up or down and that's exactly what several Trackman coaches told me... Straight from the horses mouth. Good day good sir.
post #180 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

 

 

But we would rather have it 300 and in the fairway if we had that option.

 

Or 300 in the light rough ;-)

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